Minivan or MS... Can't decide!

[MS16]

I'll be getting a 2013 if I do, which all I can find it that it achieved the highest ratings ever of any car across the board. The Ody I have now is almost just as safe with is 5/5 except in rollover which scored 4/5.

The ratings you're looking at are the NHTSA ratings, which is for a less stringent test.

IIHS has their own testing system which is more rigorous and more representative of real life accidents. It includes more scenarios of crashes and crashes at higher speeds.

In the IIHS tests, the older 2014 Odyssey tested performed better in crash tests than the "improved" late 2016 Model S which was retested following a redesign with new side airbags and other changes. Even with those changes, the Model S came up short. The crash test results before the changes (2012 - late 2016) has not been released. The Ody received the Top Pick rating and top scores across all tested scenarios. I expect the 2018 would only get better with standard collision warning/mitigation equipment.

A 2013 Model S would not have any Auto Emergency Braking or collision warning equipment, what Honda calls "Honda Sense".

 

[ChrgdTeCHick]

You are correct I noticed that. My Ody has lane watch (camera on the right side mirror) and the collision/lane departure warning, but no auto break. Still a nice feature.

I appreciate the feedback. It is important to me. Makes me lean more towards the MS and Ody. Although I drive more by myself than with my kids (not that statistically it makes it significantly safer)

 

[bak_phy]

I'll be getting a 2013 if I do

Just remember that there have been quite a few changes to the MS since 2013 so make sure that you are ok with not having
all any of the newer functions.

 

[McRat]

The ratings you're looking at are the NHTSA ratings, which is for a less stringent test.

IIHS has their own testing system which is more rigorous and more representative of real life accidents. It includes more scenarios of crashes and crashes at higher speeds.

In the IIHS tests, the older 2014 Odyssey tested performed better in crash tests than the "improved" late 2016 Model S which was retested following a redesign with new side airbags and other changes. Even with those changes, the Model S came up short. The crash test results before the changes (2012 - late 2016) has not been released. The Ody received the Top Pick rating and top scores across all tested scenarios. I expect the 2018 would only get better with standard collision warning/mitigation equipment.

A 2013 Model S would not have any Auto Emergency Braking or collision warning equipment, what Honda calls "Honda Sense".

For 2017 only the Pacifica mini-van gets an IIHS Top Pick +. The Sedona gets a Top Pick. Odyssey is missing. Tesla is missing right now due to a couple easy to fix issues.

 

[ChrgdTeCHick]

Just remember that there have been quite a few changes to the MS since 2013 so make sure that you are ok with not having
all any of the newer functions.

Very true. I actually watched a few videos were the 2013 version I'm looking at was compared to a new 2016. The biggest difference is the parking sensors. I have a 2015 in mind too but the '13 has a longer list of items, minus self folding mirreos (I've never even folded any mirrors so its not a need) and no parking sensors.

For 2017 only the Pacifica mini-van gets an IIHS Top Pick +. The Sedona gets a Top Pick. Odyssey is missing. Tesla is missing right now due to a couple easy to fix issues.

I know Ody got it in 2014. 2018 isn't due to even start selling until the summer/fall. They just started production.

Let's hypothetically look ahead and I find the MS doesn't work, even as an alternative, is selling the Tesla fairly easy? The Ody is for the demand. I'll have interest at 2% and a large down payment, so I wouldn't be upside down on it.

Although my goal is long term ownership.

 

[ChrgdTeCHick]

Scratch that, the 2014 I was looking at as one of my choices is gone. This is the '13 I'm looking at. 30k miles P85. I know the 21" tires get used more. The insurance between the P85 and 85 for me is a $5 every 6 month difference.

 

[MS16]

For 2017 only the Pacifica mini-van gets an IIHS Top Pick +. The Sedona gets a Top Pick. Odyssey is missing. Tesla is missing right now due to a couple easy to fix issues.

Tesla has had at least two tries so far with the IIHS crash test and still comes up short, so I'm not so sure how "easy to fix" the issues really are. Even with the newer side curtain air bags installed in late 2016, the driver's head still hit the steering wheel in the retest.

I'd be interested in seeing the crash test results from the pre-Oct 2016 models.

Regardless, even if Tesla does manage to fix the shortcomings, they won't apply to cars on the road now.

 

[MS16]

Another consideration regarding Model S vs Ody, yearly service costs on the Model S are very high. The Ody would be very low and more competition on where you can get it serviced.

The 2014 Model S is on Consumer Reports Used Cars to Avoid List so maybe the 2013 is more reliable than the 2014.

 

[ChrgdTeCHick]

I read that IIHS won't test vehicles without the safety sensors. Could be why no 2013 were tested. I would have preferred to have a IIHS rating to compare (although looking at the "improved" versions and seeing those issues, it's likely 2013 had those and maybe even worse)

 

[McRat]

I read that IIHS won't test vehicles without the safety sensors. Could be why no 2013 were tested. I would have preferred to have a IIHS rating to compare (although looking at the "improved" versions and seeing those issues, it's likely 2013 had those and maybe even worse)

No, Tesla missed the small offset frontal. Then they missed the Electronic Warfare that is required for Top Pick+. The difference between Top Pick and Top Pick+ is electronics.

The 2016 Odyssey rates Top Pick, but has an Acceptable for Child Restraint and not enough electronics for Top Pick+.

 

[ChrgdTeCHick]

Another consideration regarding Model S vs Ody, yearly service costs on the Model S are very high. The Ody would be very low and more competition on where you can get it serviced.

The 2014 Model S is on Consumer Reports Used Cars to Avoid List so maybe the 2013 is more reliable than the 2014.

Very good call out. I did include this in my budget review for the next 3-5 years for both. In the end the Tesla was still cheaper (but 5 years older, 30k miles starting out etc, plus that's estimating basics, not all those unexpected). I spent about $500 on the Ody in 3 years on the basic oil changes, probably another $100 or so on alignment, and $750 on tires plus all the extras like wipers and such, so $450 a year is I average.. But I also bought it brand new. Now is where I'd start getting into the expensive fixes. Although brand new is what I'd buy an Ody anyway so I'd be low first few years.

 

[ChrgdTeCHick]

No, Tesla missed the small offset frontal. Then they missed the Electronic Warfare that is required for Top Pick+. The difference between Top Pick and Top Pick+ is electronics.

Thank you for the explanation. I was not aware.

 

[bak_phy]

The biggest difference is the parking sensors.

I would have said AP

 

[ChrgdTeCHick]

I would have said AP

As in assisted parking? Such as for parallel? I parallel my Ody now with ease, even without using the rear cam. But all in all, in my city you almost never have to PP. Only a few spaces (coincidentally such as the one by the Tesla store!) But parking is very ample so a few feet away is a pull in/out spot.

 

[McRat]

Thank you for the explanation. I was not aware.

Argghh... I should have looked closer.

The 2017 Model S is awaiting rework on:
Small Frontal
Headlights
Child Tethers
Crash Avoidance.

The Small Frontal was a single airbag IIRC that needs adjustment
Headlights? Dunno.
Child Tethers? Dunno.
Crash Avoidance was done on early EAP that lacked AEB. (Pick+)

They should be resubmitting soon.

2017 Tesla Model S

 

[bak_phy]

As in assisted parking? Such as for parallel? I parallel my Ody now with ease, even without using the rear cam. But all in all, in my city you almost never have to PP. Only a few spaces (coincidentally such as the one by the Tesla store!) But parking is very ample so a few feet away is a pull in/out spot

Auto Pilot

 

[MS16]

Regarding those rear facing third row seats, not to be a Debbie Downer, but those seats are very exposed in a read end or side impact collision, especially when impacted by a higher riding vehicle like a truck or SUV. They would ride up and over the frame and into that rear seating area. The side air bags on the Tesla do not extend to that last row. The Odyssey has standard side air bags for all 3 rows of passengers.

The side curtain airbag for the 2nd row was one of the other problems IIHS noted on the Model S. The dummy's head impacted the top of the door (red paint mark) instead of being cushioned by the side curtain above the air bag. "Beginning with 2016 models built after October 2016, the B-pillars and roof rails were reinforced and deployment guides were added to the side curtain airbags to improve occupant protection in side impact crashes" This photo is from after the fix I guess.

As a pre-Oct 2016 S owner, I'm curious myself what the results were before the changes.

 

[MS16]

No, Tesla missed the small offset frontal. Then they missed the Electronic Warfare that is required for Top Pick+. The difference between Top Pick and Top Pick+ is electronics.

The 2016 Odyssey rates Top Pick, but has an Acceptable for Child Restraint and not enough electronics for Top Pick+.

The 2014-2016 Odyssey received an Acceptable for Ease of Use of LATCH Child Restrains. The Model S received one score lower, a Marginal rating. I wouldn't consider that a safety issue, its an ease or use issue.

On a side note, the 2018 Ody just went into production last month. All trim levels from EX on up will have standard ACC, Lane keeping, AEB, forward collision warning, road departure mitigation, etc.

Honda Starts Building All-New 2018 Honda Odyssey

 

[ChrgdTeCHick]

No Debbie downer about safety. Its important. I would plan on usong the rear ones on a need by case, vs normal day to day. Again I know statistics don't work that way, but the less use the less worry of the rear end safety issue. The two younger kids would be either in their current car seats, Diono Radians, which are steel frames with side impact, or Britax Frontier which also has head protection. Both have some of the highest car ratings which would help with the red marks of the crash ratings. The oldest in just a booster or none soon would be in the middle as he would be the less safe.

Auto Pilot: I likely wasn't going to get it either way, even on a AP ready one. I see myself trading in an MS for a newer one in a few years though and likely going AP route.

I figured the 2018 Ody would have all the safe feature mine does now with possible additions. Over all the Ody will likely always come out ahead in safety than a sedan, even one like the Tesla. At least within the next 5 years. Safety is still something I highly keep in mind.

 

[bcsteeve]

the $200+ gas bill a month would drop to $30-$40 electric

PLEASE consider this... if you can afford a Model S or a brand new fully loaded minivan that costs close to the same (really? wow)... then, seriously, you're not hurting for money. So why look at the fuel equation in dollars? That $200/gas per month is a fackload of pollution no matter what way you slice it and regardless of what it costs. The electric is... well, it is a lot less. Florida does rely heavily on fossil fuels for electricity generation, but that will change as solar/wind/tidal energies are developed at some post-Trump future. Even while it is dino-powered, it is a ton more efficient to generate electricity centrally and distribute it to power cars than to have millions of individual power plants chugging along.

Take advantage of your current position and put your children's environmental future into the picture. You have an opportunity to lead. Take it.