Model 3 Autopilot suddenly tried to turn off

[Garlan Garner]

Well like every tech head I want to wonder at this marvel. But there are some very intelligent people on these forums who might tell me otherwise but my interpretation of current status and using the software myself. My car is equipped with a full self driving computer by label so I can only go by Tesla stating that because that's all they need to achieve it and it is a powerhouse for AI. If not then it would be a major miss sale of a car.

The term FSD translates to - "cars or trucks in which human drivers are never required to take control to safely operate the vehicle. Also known as autonomous or 'driver-less' cars, they combine sensors and software to control, navigate, and drive the vehicle."

Which means to me it has to deal with every situation. Like a car parked upside down halfway across the street, think about it and deal with all the weird stuff humans throw at it and still get you home. Even doing a U turn if safe to do so away from the blockage. There are a million combinations.

+ software improvements, legislation, legality of it all with the governments. 5 Years away at the earliest so 2025. By then my computer will be a mantle piece or it gets a free upgrade . But I pray for sooner please!

I understand your statements, however we don't have the liberty of re-defining FSD/Full Autonomy.

Autonomy has levels. Period.

Tesla is at level 2 and that's fine with me.

You are talking about level 5. No one on the planet is there yet.

If you say you want level 5 or nothing.....that's fine.....however its not fair to say it doesn't exist at all.



Light reading until your Level 5 is delivered ----> Tesla's Hardware 3 computer frightens legacy auto after Model 3 teardown: 'We cannot do it'

 

[CertLive]

I understand your statements, however we don't have the liberty of re-defining FSD/Full Autonomy.

Autonomy has levels. Period.

Tesla is at level 2 and that's fine with me.

You are talking about level 5. No one on the planet is there yet.

If you say you want level 5 or nothing.....that's fine.....however its not fair to say it doesn't exist at all.



Light reading until your Level 5 is delivered ----> Tesla's Hardware 3 computer frightens legacy auto after Model 3 teardown: 'We cannot do it'

I read that article this morning, there is no doubt Tesla are putting in the big investment here, what is in my car currently is cutting edge stuff. I think the FSD design if you look into it is godlike . Technically you have 2 computers running in tandem its like space flight hardware. Other former larger players in the car industry might not be showing their hand because its not ready to be shown. They only release it when it is ready.

As for the FSD levels yes I understand them and how difficult the challenge is going to be with Tesla having the highest chance of cracking it first. But level 5 defines the FSD definition. That is what we are sold with the car if the option is purchased right? So HW3 should be level 5 capable. That is space age optional driver-less. Do I drive today or not...

 

[Garlan Garner]

I read that article this morning, there is no doubt Tesla are putting in the big investment here, what is in my car currently is cutting edge stuff. I think the FSD design if you look into it is godlike . Technically you have 2 computers running in tandem its like space flight hardware. Other former larger players in the car industry might not be showing their hand because its not ready to be shown. They only release it when it is ready.

As for the FSD levels yes I understand them and how difficult the challenge is going to be with Tesla having the highest chance of cracking it first. But level 5 defines the FSD definition. That is what we are sold with the car if the option is purchased right? So HW3 should be level 5 capable.

We were sold FSD beta.

Just like you are using AP beta.

That's the official sale.

Initially you agreed that you would use it as beta in your car. Everyone that has turned it on.....agreed and probably forgot that you agreed to beta.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

You can make excuses for the software engineers all day, but this video is proof that the Tesla doesn't "see" and "think" well on very basic driving situations, so it makes me believe with high certainty that Tesla is on the wrong track for ever getting to the full self-driving marketing promise, as opposed to the system just needing more time to be refined.

Keep in mind, they still have to figure out how to see in bad weather conditions, deal with confusing construction zones, and learn to drive defensively.

And to think today, they can't even stay in a lane, realize when a big white truck is not the sky, or not think nothing is something and brake for no reason.

I love Tesla the car, hate Tesla the self-driving machine. Wish I could short a stock that is just based on FSD success. But happy Tesla will do just fine even when they finally throw in the towel on FSD and RoboTaxis.

 

[CertLive]

We were sold FSD beta.

Just like you are using AP beta.

That's the official sale.

Initially you agreed that you would use it as beta in your car. Everyone that has turned it on.....agreed and probably forgot that you agreed to beta.

Please screenshot where it says Beta under self driving on the website point of sale?

 

[Garlan Garner]

Please screenshot where it says Beta under self driving on the website point of sale?

When you click on turning the feature on in the car....it said beta.

This is the language on Tesla's website when ordering the car.



Full Self-Driving Capability

• Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars.
• Auto Lane Change: automatic lane changes while driving on the highway.
• Autopark: both parallel and perpendicular spaces.
• Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.

Coming later this year:

• Recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs.
• Automatic driving on city streets.

"The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."




That's clear to me.

 

[CertLive]

When you click on turning the feature on in the car....it said beta.

This is the language on Tesla's website when ordering the car.

"The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."

That's clear to me.

Then why is the term "Full Self-Driving Capability" used? That is suggesting the hardware sold with my model 3 is in fact level 5 capable because that is what is required for a full self driving car. Otherwise you are selling everyone something that can never do as specified no? Unless of course you are guaranteed a hardware computer and sensor update to what is required to meet this objective. There is no beta advertised when you buy the car.

But lets also bring it back to my video, the car currently in terms of driving itself in a lane is no better than others at the moment. Sure it can change lanes. But I am talking common sense driving on a single motorway track correctly. In my experience it can be worse as shown in the video. This is being very realistic about the state of play with the current software expect the unexpected.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Then why is the term "Full Self-Driving Capability" used? That is suggesting the hardware sold with my model 3 is in fact level 5 capable because that is what is required for a full self driving car. Otherwise you are selling everyone something that can never do as specified no? Unless of course you are guaranteed a hardware computer and sensor update to what is required to meet this objective. There is no beta advertised when you buy the car.

But lets also bring it back to my video, the car currently in terms of driving itself in a lane is no better than others at the moment. Sure it can change lanes. But I am talking common sense driving on a single motorway track correctly. In my experience it can be worse as shown in the video. This is being very realistic about the state of play with the current software expect the unexpected.

Why is the term "Full Self-Driving Capability" used? Because they wanted to.

They clearly explains what it is and what it does. They didn't suggest anything that it doesn't do. It does what they said it will do. If you didn't read it - well......

I'm not arguing if lane keeping is better or worse than anything. I'm explaining that it did what it was supposed to do. NO - it didn't try and exit the expressway . That's wrong. It centered itself in an inappropriately marked lane. That's actually fantastic in my view, but I'm not arguing my view.

Aren't you glad you didn't even buy FSD?


You should sell your model 3 and get one of your other cars back.

If lane assist is that crucial for you..You really should.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Then why is the term "Full Self-Driving Capability" used? That is suggesting the hardware sold with my model 3 is in fact level 5 capable because that is what is required for a full self driving car. Otherwise you are selling everyone something that can never do as specified no? Unless of course you are guaranteed a hardware computer and sensor update to what is required to meet this objective. There is no beta advertised when you buy the car.

But lets also bring it back to my video, the car currently in terms of driving itself in a lane is no better than others at the moment. Sure it can change lanes. But I am talking common sense driving on a single motorway track correctly. In my experience it can be worse as shown in the video. This is being very realistic about the state of play with the current software expect the unexpected.

BTW....since you don't have FSD.....

This is what AP does as its listed on their website.

AutopilotIncluded

• Enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane.

That's it. That's all they advertise about AP. Its a very very simple thing.

 

[CertLive]

BTW....since you don't have FSD.....

This is what AP does as its listed on their website.

AutopilotIncluded

• Enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane.

That's it. That's all they advertise about AP. Its a very very simple thing.

Would the FSD option stop the car from steering off the road?

 

[Garlan Garner]

Would the FSD option stop the car from steering off the road?

Did your car steer off the road?

no....it centered itself in the lane.

That's what AP does.

When you engaged AP in the beginning you agreed to be alert and attentive. Which you did.

The car did what it was supposed to you and you did also.


Now to answer your question:

In my car - when I engage FSD it works tremendously better at not only centering my car, but makes better decisions about where to travel on the road because it's not only staying in the lane, but also avoids travel options because it has a destination in mind.

For example: my FSD changes lanes and explains why on the screen. One such message is "Changing lanes to follow route". That keeps the car from moving into lanes and exits and such that doesn't help it follow the route.

So to answer your question: YES....fsd is better.

 

[BikerPeaBody]

Looks to me as though when the marking on the left “disappeared” the car tried to center itself within the new wider lane.

Yes, which is very common
Not to mention those big lane arrows probably threw the computer off a little bit
It all just means to pay attention while using AP. We have to accept its far from perfect

 

[BikerPeaBody]

The term FSD translates to - "cars or trucks in which human drivers are never required to take control to safely operate the vehicle. Also known as autonomous or 'driver-less' cars, they combine sensors and software to control, navigate, and drive the vehicle."
!

Exactly. Uber been talking about having driverless cars, even Tesla. But I think its way more than 5 years before they are common on the streets. The computers need to be able to handle 100% of all scenarios a car may face on the road to have no driver behind the wheel

 

[Matsayz]

The problem is you’re driving on the wrong side of the road! /s

Also, did you guys start using miles and I didn’t notice? I thought it was all KM’s. Welcome to the dark side!!!

My HW3 FSD 3 does try to find “the middle” of the lane as well. “We” need to get better about consistent lane marking a across the country (US). Off ramps need the smal dots then solid lines, not random 50-100ft sections of “open” lanes. There are a few sections of my daily route I have to kill AP so it doesn’t drift off to the right then drift back to the left, I swear I’m not drunk officer!

 

[Garlan Garner]

Yes, which is very common
Not to mention those big lane arrows probably threw the computer off a little bit
It all just means to pay attention while using AP. We have to accept its far from perfect

I understand what you are saying, but AP does not follow arrows. It doesn't even know what an arrow is no more than it knows what roadkill is. Especially if you are on anything less than HW3.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Exactly. Uber been talking about having driverless cars, even Tesla. But I think its way more than 5 years before they are common on the streets. The computers need to be able to handle 100% of all scenarios a car may face on the road to have no driver behind the wheel

The largest problem with level 5 autonomy isn't the cars.

The largest problem is humans NOT driving as they are supposed to.

If the only object allowed to drive on roads was a computer operated vehicle....it would be perfect. IMHO

The problem are humans who make right turns from left lanes and such. The problem is improperly painted lines or almost invisible lines. etc.

 

[BikerPeaBody]

I understand what you are saying, but AP does not follow arrows. It doesn't even know what an arrow is. Especially if you are on anything less than HW3.

yeah, but its basically just markings unfamiliar to the AP
bad thing is, if you are on AP at high speed, say 80mph....it will still try to center if say a lane is merging in. It sees that extra space and jerks to the center. Not good. I'm always paying attention, and see the issue coming up and expect the motion. I'm sure it scared the heck out of people who aren't paying attention

but they say this is beta and just AP so just have to wait for perfection

 

[Garlan Garner]

yeah, but its basically just markings unfamiliar to the AP
bad thing is, if you are on AP had high speed, say 80mph....it will still try to center if say a lane is merging in. It sees that extra space and jerks to the center. Not good

but they say this is beta and just AP so just have to wait for perfection

I volunteer to use all of it ( AP/FSD/CBD/etc.) as it approaches perfection. I hope Tesla NEVER says it perfect in as much as the creator of humans hasn't created a perfect one of those yet either......and they drive around here all of the time.



90% of my cars miles are FSD.

I absolutely love watching the progression of additions and improvements from update to update.

Example: I was pleasantly shocked to see garbage cans now being recognized by the car. ( free software update ).

 

[holmgang]

in my limited observation, when driving across temporary lanes, faded lanes, multi-colored lanes, expanding lanes, whatever, the car seems to properly recognize the current, active lane. so thats a positive. (though thats just based on the screen render, not actual autosteer behavior).

but it has other issues. including in examples like yours.

even if semantically, tesla isnt selling fully-autonomous capabilities, many people believe that they do, or that they're nearly there, and my takeaway is that it's not even close.

 

[Garlan Garner]

in my limited observation, when driving across temporary lanes, faded lanes, multi-colored lanes, expanding lanes, whatever, the car seems to properly recognize the current, active lane. so thats a positive. (though thats just based on the screen render, not actual autosteer behavior).

but it has other issues. including in examples like yours.

even if semantically, tesla isnt selling fully-autonomous capabilities, many people believe that they do, or that they're nearly there, and my takeaway is that it's not even close.

Is Tesla wrong or are people wrong?