Model 3 entry via ... keycard & app. No fob.

[Runt8]

I didn't see this anywhere in the thread, so here it goes....I'm very excited about the bluetooth solution and am optimistic that it will "just work", but I do know from experience that not all apps are equal and I've seen good and bad apps. And I've seen bad apps from very large corporations. To me, one of the most important aspects of this app is that it properly minimize battery impact. I think it will have to constantly be looking for the car via BT LE, so I hope my phone can still "sleep". Don't most of us have experience with apps that have crazy draining properties? My solution is just uninstall, but that would be hard in this case. In this case, I'm sure hoping that Tesla has the right app developers for both iOS and Android to make this app bulletproof and minimize the battery impact. Anyone else think it's ironic if my Tesla app is inefficient and wastes my phone battery's capacity?

At least on the iPhone, responsibility for connecting to a Bluetooth device is part of the OS. If the car isn’t in range, then the Tesla app will be suspended. Once connected, the OS will wake up the app periodically and give it a short amount of time to respond.

See “Communicating with a Bluetooth accessory” at Background Execution

 

[N5329K]

This reads like you don't understand how the Tesla fob works (or how many other fobs work).

If you are parked too close and your fob is not in a signal blocking cover, it can also leave the car unlocked. Top Gear did this trick with the Challenger.

If your car is bricked, your fob will not be able to open the door. Unlike certain fobs, there is no physical key in the Tesla fob (the newer Challenger fob is the same).

My fobs have a lock button, an unlock button, and a "where the devil did I park that car?" horn button. They do not open or close anything without my express command (except when I stand next to the door and touch the handle...then it will recognize me and unlock it). They also contain a clever little physical key for the inevitable times when reliable devices aren't.
Pretty hard to improve on, and a phone app or swipe card (again, to my way of thinking) simply doesn't. That said, it might be just the thing for those drivers who always carry their phones at the ready. Wearable tech has a long history too.
Robin

 

[stopcrazypp]

My fobs have a lock button, an unlock button, and a "where the devil did I park that car?" horn button. They do not open or close anything without my express command (except when I stand next to the door and touch the handle...then it will recognize me and unlock it). They also contain a clever little physical key for the inevitable times when reliable devices aren't.
Pretty hard to improve on, and a phone app or swipe card (again, to my way of thinking) simply doesn't. That said, it might be just the thing for those drivers who always carry their phones at the ready. Wearable tech has a long history too.
Robin

Yeah, but that's fairly irrelevant as that's not how the Tesla fob works anyways. The newer one is also a bluetooth transmitter, just like a phone would have. So there's really no functional difference, even if Tesla were to offer one to those without smart phones.

 

[EV-lutioin]

If you want to do anything else than unlocking the door (e.g. popping the trunk, opening all doors for passengers, opening all windows to let hot air out etc.), pushing a button on a fob is clearly more convenient than having to unlock a phone and open an app first. I think the best solution would be if Tesla offered an optional fob for those who prefer it.

BTW, found this interesting (from 2013!):

Add-on module auto-unlocks your car when your phone is near - Roadshow

The doors/trunk are manual on the M3, there are no auto open features as far as we know. The doors will unlock and the truck will "pop" as soon you approach the car, the same as MX/MS. You can't open windows from the fob or app now anyway, but you can pre-condition your car from the app. I suppose it would be cool if you could open the windows from the app. This is one of those, "getting rid of the headphone jack" moments, change is hard, but it makes sense in the end.

 

[cella]

The doors/trunk are manual on the M3, there are no auto open features as far as we know. The doors will unlock

I do *not* want all doors to unlock as I approach the car. That can be a serious security risk. According to screenshots of the Model 3 console you can set it to only unlock the driver door automatically on approach. I would like to be able to unlock the other doors only when I have passengers. On many cars this is done by a double tap on the fob.

and the truck will "pop" as soon you approach the car, the same as MX/MS.

Huh? You pop the trunk of the Model S by double tapping the rear button on the fob. Of course it does not open automatically.

You can't open windows from the fob or app now anyway, but you can pre-condition your car from the app. I suppose it would be cool if you could open the windows from the app. This is one of those, "getting rid of the headphone jack" moments, change is hard, but it makes sense in the end.

I don't see how taking away practical every day functionality "makes sense in the end". There is no advantage in not offering an (at least optional) fob. Those who are happy with the more limited functionality of the purely phone-based system can continue using that.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Those who are happy with the more limited functionality of the purely phone-based system can continue using that.

How is the phone system necessarily going to have more limited functionality? The Model S fob only has 3 buttons and 6 functions.

Do note that the Model 3 app may not necessarily be the same as the existing Model S/X app. It will likely have dedicated fob actions put into it as it uses the same bluetooth channel as the fob (not through the cellular connection).

 

[T34ME]

It will be interesting to see how this app/keycard thing works out. I think I like the idea of no fob in my pocket, BUT

can you peeps help me out with some issues I think I may have?
- with my current car I have a small fob that allows me to lock/unlock doors and rear hatch and energize the car. I don't have to take it out of my pocket, I just have to touch a sensor on the doors or hatch to lock/ unlock (one chirp indicates lock, two chirps indicates unlock) and press a button to energize. Very easy. What is that system called if not NFC?
- how is carrying a smart phone in my pocket any less obtrusive than carrying a fob in my pocket?
- how is taking my wallet out of my pocket for a keycard for access and then putting that keycard in a special place in the console any less obtrusive than just having a fob in my pocket and leaving it there?
- my DW and I share one smartphone. Does this system mean I have to go out and buy another smartphone for myself (several hundred dollars) and purchase another data plan (several hundred dollars a year) just to get full functionality from my car?

I talked to my carrier yesterday, T-Mobile, about my issues. They said they could sell me a wrist watch with NFC that would likely be able to run the Tesla app if I don't want to carry around another smartphone. They had no idea if I would have to take off the watch and put it in the console to energize the car. They said the watch runs around $300 and a data plan would be about $300 per year. I WOULD MUCH PREFER MY CURRENT FOB SYSTEM to this rather elaborate and more expensive Tesla app/keycard system.

What am I missing?

 

[stopcrazypp]

It will be interesting to see how this app/keycard thing works out. I think I like the idea of no fob in my pocket, BUT

can you peeps help me out with some issues I think I may have?
- with my current car I have a small fob that allows me to lock/unlock doors and rear hatch and energize the car. I don't have to take it out of my pocket, I just have to touch a sensor on the doors or hatch to lock/ unlock (one chirp indicates lock, two chirps indicates unlock) and press a button to energize. Very easy. What is that system called if not NFC?
- how is carrying a smart phone in my pocket any less obtrusive than carrying a fob in my pocket?
- how is taking my wallet out of my pocket for a keycard for access and then putting that keycard in a special place in the console any less obtrusive than just having a fob in my pocket and leaving it there?
- my DW and I share one smartphone. Does this system mean I have to go out and buy another smartphone for myself (several hundred dollars) and purchase another data plan (several hundred dollars a year) just to get full functionality from my car?

I talked to my carrier yesterday, T-Mobile, about my issues. They said they could sell me a wrist watch with NFC that would likely be able to run the Tesla app if I don't want to carry around another smartphone. They had no idea if I would have to take off the watch and put it in the console to energize the car. They said the watch runs around $300 and a data plan would be about $300 per year. I WOULD MUCH PREFER MY CURRENT FOB SYSTEM to this rather elaborate and more expensive Tesla app/keycard system.

What am I missing?

You are missing the most important thing. The app runs on bluetooth (just like the new Tesla fobs does) so no data plan is required (although you can get a prepaid plan or card for any extra features that might need it), and can also provide exactly the same functionality as a fob (where approaching unlocks the doors).

You can buy an unlocked Android phone for $50 that supports Bluetooth 4.0.
BLU Dash L3 with 4GB Memory Cell Phone (Unlocked) Gray D930 BLACK - Best Buy

I have people in my extended family that uses H2O for low demand, and it seems to be popular for Roadster users too for their OVMS.
H2O, MONTHLY UNLIMITED PLANS

 

[cella]

How is the phone system necessarily going to have more limited functionality? The Model S fob only has 3 buttons and 6 functions.

What I mean is without unlocking your phone, opening the Tesla app and navigating to a "lock" screen (assuming that the app even has the functions that are normally supported by a fob). That's obviously less than convenient, especially if you are carrying bags or something.

 

[EV-lutioin]

I do *not* want all doors to unlock as I approach the car. That can be a serious security risk. According to screenshots of the Model 3 console you can set it to only unlock the driver door automatically on approach. I would like to be able to unlock the other doors only when I have passengers. On many cars this is done by a double tap on the fob.
Huh? You pop the trunk of the Model S by double tapping the rear button on the fob. Of course it does not open automatically.
I don't see how taking away practical every day functionality "makes sense in the end". There is no advantage in not offering an (at least optional) fob. Those who are happy with the more limited functionality of the purely phone-based system can continue using that.

Tesla, please give this guy a fob!

 

[cella]

can you peeps help me out with some issues I think I may have?
- with my current car I have a small fob that allows me to lock/unlock doors and rear hatch and energize the car. I don't have to take it out of my pocket, I just have to touch a sensor on the doors or hatch to lock/ unlock (one chirp indicates lock, two chirps indicates unlock) and press a button to energize. Very easy. What is that system called if not NFC?

That's a standard keyless entry system. It has nothing to do with NFC. It uses completely different protocols and a different radio band (normally 315 MHz, whereas NFC operates on 13.56 MHz). NFC/RFID typically has a much smaller range (just a few inches). That is why you have to tap the Model 3 RFID card on the B pillar.

- how is carrying a smart phone in my pocket any less obtrusive than carrying a fob in my pocket?

The assumption is that you are carrying a phone anyway.

- my DW and I share one smartphone. Does this system mean I have to go out and buy another smartphone for myself (several hundred dollars) and purchase another data plan (several hundred dollars a year) just to get full functionality from my car?

As it currently stands one of you would have to use the RFID card. Depending on how the Tesla app is implemented, you may also be able to use an old smart phone without an active data plan, since the system appears to be based on Bluetooth.

 

[N5329K]

Tesla, please give this guy a fob!

Me too. Small and simple and sleek. No hot wheels on a chain.
Robin

 

[FlyingKiwi]

That's a standard keyless entry system. It has nothing to do with NFC. It uses completely different protocols and a different radio band (normally 315 MHz, whereas NFC operates on 13.56 MHz). NFC/RFID typically has a much smaller range (just a few inches). That is why you have to tap the Model 3 RFID card on the B pillar.

No, its is some sort of NFC type system, read the posters description, s/he doesn't touch the fob, s/he touches the button/sensor on the door, the car interogates the NFC fob in his/her pocket and then unlocks/opens the door

The assumption is that you are carrying a phone anyway.

And that is the problem.. 90% of the time I will have a phone with me, the other 10% however I will not. You know what they say about assumption...

 

[patrick40363]

I don't use a smart phone so i would prefer a FOB.

 

[stopcrazypp]

No, its is some sort of NFC type system, read the posters description, s/he doesn't touch the fob, s/he touches the button/sensor on the door, the car interogates the NFC fob in his/her pocket and then unlocks/opens the door

It's unlikely to be NFC because NFC simply does not have the range such that you can leave in pocket without moving your body somehow to get that fob closer to the sensor.

And that is the problem.. 90% of the time I will have a phone with me, the other 10% however I will not. You know what they say about assumption...

But for your other 10% of the time, do you have your fob?

For me personally I am close to 100% with my phone with me, and never do I have my fob, but not my phone. I do have times when I have my phone and not my fob though.

 

[cella]

No, its is some sort of NFC type system, read the posters description, s/he doesn't touch the fob, s/he touches the button/sensor on the door, the car interogates the NFC fob in his/her pocket and then unlocks/opens the door

It's not NFC. It's a keyless entry system with a transponder key. Those have been around since the mid 1990s. NFC was only standardized about 10 years later.

 

[gregd]

My proposed solution, noted a few bazillion pages ago, is to punch a hole in the corner of the keycard and attach it to your keyring. Use it as the primary entry and starting device, and use the phone as the backup. It's a step backward, as you will have to pull the keycard out of wherever you keep it (wallet, pocket, purse, etc) and tap it on the B pillar, then the dash, but it appears to be the only way to keep all the unintended consequences of using the phone at bay.

The phone is too risky as a primary key, as it tends to be too unreliable (when was the last time you had to reboot your key fob?), more cumbersome to control (pin code to unlock, assuming you can see it in the sun, access app, potentially disrupting other stuff that the phone is doing, etc., versus hitting dedicated switches in the existing fob in your pocket), and too easy to confuse the car as to who's phone is in control (consider when multiple phones are paired) when one is intentionally left in a purse in the trunk. Simple proximity of the device is insufficient to reliably imply intent, and explicit intent is too hard to control. Long list of troubles with using the phone.

In my opinion, they took too big a step with this one, being blinded by their future vision of self-driving cars and so forth, ignoring the reality that we are not there yet and need to deal with the decidedly non-utopia world that we live in. Walking up to a car, for example, should never automatically unlock the passenger door without an explicit and at-the-time-of-use command to do so (not a setting in some phone app menu you're likely to forget). This situation, by the way, was solved long ago by multiple car manufacturers, where you either turn-and-hold the key, or push the fob's unlock button twice in succession. I dearly hope that the keycard has a similar action (hold or double-tap by the B pillar). Otherwise, insufficient attention to detail on Tesla's part.

 

[T34ME]

No, its is some sort of NFC type system, read the posters description, s/he doesn't touch the fob, s/he touches the button/sensor on the door, the car interogates the NFC fob in his/her pocket and then unlocks/opens the door

You are correct, that is what I am saying. I NEVER touch the fob in my pocket, I just touch the sensor on the door handle. I don't know how the car interrogates the fob, but it does! BTW, this is a Prius.

And that is the problem.. 90% of the time I will have a phone with me, the other 10% however I will not. You know what they say about assumption...

Yes, that is the problem, but an even bigger problem for me since I have the phone with me only 10% of the time, the other 90%, no. Yes, I know the keycard - pull my wallet out, pull out the key card, put the wallet back in my pocket, touch the keycard to the B pillar, put the keycard someplace on the console, take the keycard out of the console, touch to B pillar to lock car, pull out my wallet, put the keycard into the wallet, replace wallet in pocket- - - - I'll be ready for a nap by then!

 

[FlyingKiwi]

It's unlikely to be NFC because NFC simply does not have the range such that you can leave in pocket without moving your body somehow to get that fob closer to the sensor..

It's not NFC. It's a keyless entry system with a transponder key. Those have been around since the mid 1990s. NFC was only standardized about 10 years later.

As i Said NFC type system.. it relies on a proximity field to initiate the communication. Its not standard keyless entry with a rolling code transmitter.

 

[T34ME]

@stopcrazypp and @cella thank you both for your input. I have still much to learn about how this system will work. It is not a deal breaker for me and I will adapt, but it seems entirely too complicated to me and I prefer the fob system on my Prius. (BTW, the Prius does have a pre-cool option on the fob but I have yet to use it in 3 years of ownership in SoCal) I do think that aftermarket will come up with hacks and solutions to address all the device scenarios desired by owners.