Model 3 Interior: Ugh!

[JeffK]

Vanity mirror lights - still missing
Door hangers - still missing
Rear cup holders (until recently after 5 yrs)
Front cup holders under the elbows..design flaw.
Centre console (added after 4 yrs of a simple open yacht floor)
Suede dash (added after 3 yrs)

Door hangers are not needed by 99.5 percent of the time you're not going to be using them (made up statistic but probably true ). I've probably used them one or two times where I could have just as well laid my stuff flat on the seat instead of obstructing my view out of that particular window. I'm sure you can figure out an aftermarket coat hanger if you are dying to have one.

Front cup holders are not under elbows see (and his seat is pushed forward too):

As far as vanity mirror lights... The majority of vanity mirror lights are too dim to see anything anyway and in many cars they are only on the driver's side. This also adds more wiring.

I feel the same way about grab handles... who actually uses those besides an old lady.

One thing to keep in mind with the model 3 timeline, is that it was always planned to launch late 2017, this has not been moved forward. There isn't some aggressive time crunch. The pressure right now is to scale faster than anticipated, but the design was basically finished and the alphas were on stage before this faster ramp up was even planned.

I think we're going to see a great car... certainly going to blow away my Prius.

 

[Laban]

Are you the configurator person? Can you add a wood decor more like figured ash?

No and no, sorry

 

[wdolson]

I think Tesla designers do miss on some critical and some aesthetic aspects. Examples from 2012 model S onwards:

Vanity mirror lights - still missing
Door hangers - still missing
Rear cup holders (until recently after 5 yrs)
Front cup holders under the elbows..design flaw.
Centre console (added after 4 yrs of a simple open yacht floor)
Suede dash (added after 3 yrs)

I believe designers often work under aggressive timelines to bring a full product to market on time and on budget. In this case Elon Musk time. Often 1st iterations and releases will go through some market and end user feedback until updates and/or design flaws are integrated.

A screen placed in the middle of a dash in a floating position may seem at first like a 'cool' and 'futuristic' design and time will tell whether it's design, safety and user friendliness will stand up to reviews and whether Tesla designers were forced to incorporate some 'fashion over function' as part of their sexy brand and appeal. I think pushing M3 to market on time given investor pressure, Musks aggressive tweets/expectations, media expectations, competitor timelines and sheer volume of orders to fulfill has all factored into initial release design vs updates once released and mature. The screen could end up being the best aspect of the design or the worst. Time will tell!

I agree. They may be thinking ahead to the future when the cars will mostly be driving autonomously, but when that will happen is a big question mark.

I do agree that interior ergonomics has been one of Tesla's weak spots. The Model S is better inside than when it was introduced, but it still lacks some things as you just pointed out. Though I don't think it's from time pressure.

Many companies end up projections of the key player's ego for better or for worse. That was true of Microsoft when Bill Gates was at the helm, it was Apple's corporate culture under Steve Jobs and it's true of Tesla and Elon Musk too. I get the feeling Elon's taste in interiors is minimalist, so Tesla's cars end up starting out with Elon's tastes catered to and only after a lot of complaints do they start to change.

A lot of Europeans are baffled at Americans fascination with cup holders and I'm probably more with the Europeans on that one. I carry a large bottle of water in my center console, but rarely use the cup holders for anything else. In the cup holders under the arm rests I have spare change. I don't do drive through very often and I don't get soft drinks when I do. In part because I'm sensitive to GMO corn and the corn syrup kicks me in the gut about 1/2 hour later (I have no issues with non-GMO corn products) but I never was a big fan of sweet drinks anyway.

The center console becoming standard was a good move IMO. I had a service loaner with the old center open space and the minimal stuff I had constantly sliding around drove me nuts.

But how often does a passenger need to see a Boeing's instrument panel?
Robin

I assume you're joking, but in case you weren't, I wasn't saying the passenger needs to see anything. The person in control of the vehicle needs critical information available as easily as possible and they need to be aware of warnings in a way that will get their attention quickly. Human vision is more acute in the forward vision than the side vision and we tend to respond better to things in that field than off to the sides.

It's an ergonomic problem and Tesla may end up having to address it with some kind of forward instrument cluster in a year or two.

 

[Destiny1701]

As far as vanity mirror lights... The majority of vanity mirror lights are too dim to see anything anyway and in many cars they are only on the driver's side. This also adds more wiring.


(Tell this to my WIFE! She would disagree and makes comments every few weeks when requiring it for make up on the way to a more formal gathering in the evening ...about Tesla engineers being male geeks and forgetting to have been one female end user for final testing LOL!)



I feel the same way about grab handles... who actually uses those besides an old lady.

(I do on long trips actually when my left arm gets tired of holding the wheel or just sitting on the side in one spot. With FSD one day, at least one can read a book! )

 

[wdolson]

Door hangers are not needed by 99.5 percent of the time you're not going to be using them (made up statistic but probably true ). I've probably used them one or two times where I could have just as well laid my stuff flat on the seat instead of obstructing my view out of that particular window. I'm sure you can figure out an aftermarket coat hanger if you are dying to have one.

Front cup holders are not under elbows see (and his seat is pushed forward too):

As far as vanity mirror lights... The majority of vanity mirror lights are too dim to see anything anyway and in many cars they are only on the driver's side. This also adds more wiring.

I feel the same way about grab handles... who actually uses those besides an old lady.

One thing to keep in mind with the model 3 timeline, is that it was always planned to launch late 2017, this has not been moved forward. There isn't some aggressive time crunch. The pressure right now is to scale faster than anticipated, but the design was basically finished and the alphas were on stage before this faster ramp up was even planned.

I think we're going to see a great car... certainly going to blow away my Prius.

Adding to the list of shortcomings, the visors are too small. The lights on the vanity mirror are not a big deal to me, but they are to a lot of women. And the grab handles are very much needed for anyone with mobility issues. I have a friend with fibermialgia and my SO just had abdominal surgery. Having those handles would help both of them very much and both would take your head off if you called them "old ladies".

The coat hangers are something that is sort of old fashioned. Back when a larger percentage of men wore suit coats every day, they were more popular, but suits are a lot less common these days.

 

[Destiny1701]

Adding to the list of shortcomings, the visors are too small. The lights on the vanity mirror are not a big deal to me, but they are to a lot of women. And the grab handles are very much needed for anyone with mobility issues. I have a friend with fibermialgia and my SO just had abdominal surgery. Having those handles would help both of them very much and both would take your head off if you called them "old ladies".

The coat hangers are something that is sort of old fashioned. Back when a larger percentage of men wore suit coats every day, they were more popular, but suits are a lot less common these days.

I think the point I was making was not to target specific issues but to highlight by example that the designers missed on basic aspects of an interior which even a basic Toyota Corolla/Honda civic would have. (Respect to corolla/civic owners for super light polluting vehicles!)

Sometimes a company can be so focused on futuristic tech that the basic's may be overlooked.
In the case of the floating screen, safety for one comes to mind ie. corner edges, accident situations etc.

 

[bro1999]

I agree. They may be thinking ahead to the future when the cars will mostly be driving autonomously, but when that will happen is a big question mark.

I do agree that interior ergonomics has been one of Tesla's weak spots. The Model S is better inside than when it was introduced, but it still lacks some things as you just pointed out. Though I don't think it's from time pressure.

Many companies end up projections of the key player's ego for better or for worse. That was true of Microsoft when Bill Gates was at the helm, it was Apple's corporate culture under Steve Jobs and it's true of Tesla and Elon Musk too. I get the feeling Elon's taste in interiors is minimalist, so Tesla's cars end up starting out with Elon's tastes catered to and only after a lot of complaints do they start to change.

A lot of Europeans are baffled at Americans fascination with cup holders and I'm probably more with the Europeans on that one. I carry a large bottle of water in my center console, but rarely use the cup holders for anything else. In the cup holders under the arm rests I have spare change. I don't do drive through very often and I don't get soft drinks when I do. In part because I'm sensitive to GMO corn and the corn syrup kicks me in the gut about 1/2 hour later (I have no issues with non-GMO corn products) but I never was a big fan of sweet drinks anyway.

The center console becoming standard was a good move IMO. I had a service loaner with the old center open space and the minimal stuff I had constantly sliding around drove me nuts.



I assume you're joking, but in case you weren't, I wasn't saying the passenger needs to see anything. The person in control of the vehicle needs critical information available as easily as possible and they need to be aware of warnings in a way that will get their attention quickly. Human vision is more acute in the forward vision than the side vision and we tend to respond better to things in that field than off to the sides.

It's an ergonomic problem and Tesla may end up having to address it with some kind of forward instrument cluster in a year or two.

Look at Jeff Bezos and the Fire phone debacle. That was more a case of the CEO forcing features as opposed to leaving some out, but same principle.
Bezos insisted that the Fire phone have a pseudo 3D feature that almost all buyers found useless. Even the phone's engineers were like "This feature is useless!", but if the CEO demands the feature is included, what can you do?

 

[gowthamn]

What is the guy they hired from Volvo doing?

 

[Destiny1701]

What is the guy they hired from Volvo doing?

Redesigning interiors of S/X.

 

[bro1999]

This article states the following about the the speedometer:
"CEO Elon Musk claims the speed will fade in and out of opacity depending on whether the speed is relevant at that time. It is unclear how this will work in practice, but could be tied to the car’s semi-autonomous Autopilot mode."
These Tesla Model 3 Shots Reveal the Stunning New Dashboard | Inverse

The speedometer fades in and out? Isn't it a federal regulation that the speedometer displays the speed at all times?

 

[JeffK]

I think the point I was making was not to target specific issues but to highlight by example that the designers missed on basic aspects of an interior which even a basic Toyota Corolla/Honda civic would have. (Respect to corolla/civic owners for super light polluting vehicles!)

Sometimes a company can be so focused on futuristic tech that the basic's may be overlooked.
In the case of the floating screen, safety for one comes to mind ie. corner edges, accident situations etc.

I don't believe they missed them... I firmly believe it was a conscious decision not to include them.

 

[Destiny1701]

I don't believe they missed them... I firmly believe it was a conscious decision not to include them.

I think it was a cost reduction methodology. Concentrate on the tech and the rest will come as they are able to incorporate. Tesla still hasn't made money on its S or X. As battery prices fall, they are able to now allocate more $ to extras.

 

[JeffK]

I think it was a cost reduction methodology. Concentrate on the tech and the rest will come as they are able to incorporate. Tesla still hasn't made money on its S or X. As battery prices fall, they are able to now allocate more $ to extras.

This is not true. Tesla has high gross margins on Model S/X this is not a cost cutting measure by any means. They don't make profit because of high operating expenses.

You can disagree if you like, or you could actually pull up their financial statements.

 

[Destiny1701]

This is not true. Tesla has high gross margins on Model S/X this is not a cost cutting measure by any means. They don't make profit because of high operating expenses.

You can disagree if you like, or you could actually pull up their financial statements.

No I agree! What I meant is exactly what you stated...on a whole the company loses money on every car when you take into account cogs and operational. Why would a design decision not include a centre console and then 3 yrs later make it a standard once the price of the cars had increased enough to justify it?
Designers aren't infallible lol. They work with the budget they have

 

[JeffK]

Why would a design decision not include a centre console and then 3 yrs later make it a standard once the price of the cars had increased enough to justify it?

Increased leg room... at the time it was a marketed feature due to the lack of a transmission underneath the car. The consumers were the ones that demanded the center console later. the idea was you were also supposed to be able to store something big in the center which you otherwise couldn't do in a typical FWD ICE.

Understandably, people wanted cup holders and a place to put garbage. In essence it was a mistake on the part of designers... but nothing to do with cost.

 

[Destiny1701]

Increased leg room... at the time it was a marketed feature due to the lack of a transmission underneath the car. The consumers were the ones that demanded it. You were also supposed to be able to store something big in the center.

Understandably, people wanted cup holders and a place to put garbage.

Voila! Designers don't often have the crystal ball lol. That's all I was mentioning. The floating screen may also have the best of design 'intentions'. Let's see

 

[JeffK]

Voila! Designers don't often have the crystal ball lol. That's all I was mentioning. The floating screen may also have the best of design 'intentions'. Let's see

True, but I don't believe the center screen only decision was due to cost cutting either as far as raw materials goes, unless you consider the cost of added complexity during manufacturing, human labor, etc.

If the future autopilot works as expected then I don't foresee any issues. Even if not, the driver will still have everything they actually need.

 

[Destiny1701]

True, but I don't believe the center screen only decision was due to cost cutting either as far as raw materials goes, unless you consider the cost of added complexity during manufacturing, human labor, etc.

If the future autopilot works as expected then I don't foresee any issues. Even if not, the driver will still have everything they actually need.

Agreed it has also to do with where they envision FSD going and the future of autonomous. The floating screen vs integrated is much cheaper as a design to purchase and install. It's a 15" monitor screen. I can probably buy one for $29 at local computer store lol. Cost was definitely a factor. It is in all things Tesla. Integrated costs more to design, manufacture, replace, maintain etc etc.

Being a model S I can confirm that the smaller dash screen is definitely used for more than just speed. There is a whole myriad info which a driver could make use of while driving. One is navigation directions which appear literally on the small screen. Charge and kw usage, wh/km instant current use..AP lanes and cars around. Music choices, sunroof controls, temperature settings. All those things one may use while driving but the eyes remain straight ahead while configuring.

I would be curious to see how a centre screen would rate in terms of safety and eyes on the road. Obviously they are building for FSD which is good and will entirely make this point moot. However they aren't there yet for years so in the interim I can't imagine having to take ones eyes off the road constantly (even for speed) is any safer?

 

[JeffK]

However they aren't there yet for years so in the interim I can't imagine having to take ones eyes off the road constantly (even for speed) is any safer?

Same applies to a standard speedometer... the only solution that doesn't involve taking eyes off the road is a HUD projected virtually in front of the car so your eyes don't have to change focus... Although assuming you check your mirrors, your eyes would be changing focus anyway. Besides battery SOC and speed, I'm not sure what other bare essentials are needed by the driver. Model S is a good example of providing data to the driver that one might argue the driver doesn't actually need in order to manually drive the vehicle.

 

[Destiny1701]

Same applies to a standard speedometer... the only solution that doesn't involve taking eyes off the road is a HUD projected virtually in front of the car so your eyes don't have to change focus... Although assuming you check your mirrors, your eyes would be changing focus anyway. Besides battery SOC and speed, I'm not sure what other bare essentials are needed by the driver. Model S is a good example of providing data to the driver that one might argue the driver doesn't actually need in order to manually drive the vehicle.

By that argument why equip cars with any non essentials then? Lol. I don't think Tesla purchasers are looking for bare essentials here!. )No one really requires anything to drive beyond a steering wheel, signals and an accelerator/brake.) That's not what I was speaking of.

I was referring to the safety of relegating daily driving type info to a screen placed in the centre thereby requiring (not by safety) eyes to be averted from the road. Even in the S, to activate heated seats etc, change equalizer settings, scroll down a phone list, find a radio station, choose a saved music folder the list goes on...one has to avert attention to the centre screen. And it's unsafe while driving. Im actually thankful there are quite a few things I can manage from the small dash screen!

Real life scenarios...how many people drive and never use any accessories? Ever? I'm only stating it's safer for eyes to be focused ahead as much as possible. I can't see anyone arguing a counter to that. Side mirror and rear view are safety items.

We can agree to disagree but there is a reason auto manufacturers are adopting hud and marketing it as a new safety item. Even the 2018 Toyota Camry will have HUD for speed, music, Navi, calls etc as part of the 'safety suite' alongside blind spot, rear cross traffic etc. That's not by accident. It's pouring millions into safety policies and enhancement.

Tesla for all it is as a new modern auto tech and energy company, allows drivers to 'beta test' their AP at risk to the driver. Thats Elons culture. Hence my argument the centre screen may have more to do with budget than it does with safety and whats actually best for the driver. Model 3 was supposed to be model E. Ford had the patent Hence 3 with triple bars. Now look at all 3 models. Thats Elon. Let's not pretend safety is paramount with his ideology over sexy and modern. Love the guy for the vision of sustainable transport though

In one month we will all sit back and enjoy seeing how they came up with the final and drive it