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Model 3 Mule Sightings

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Low roof looks better than high roof (Bolt, Leaf) while also being more aerodynamic (frontal area).
"Sexy" is not the opposite of "bad technical parameters".

Idea of Model 3 is not only more efficient, idea is also to make smaller platform.
Smaller car means smaller car. Yes, that actually means less cargo space, which, usually, is extremely empty.
World average vehicle occupancy rate is something like 1.6 per vehicle.

Model S/X size vehicles don't sell as well as smaller vehicles like M3 (applies to specific regions in the world due to constraints).
 
Nice video.... planned or not. Interesting that it has an issued CA plate 'Model 3'. Which means it has passed some sort of inspection? Doesn't Tesla know CA law requires front plate?

My vote - this is not the final product. Maybe 3 iterations before.
That is not a real plate, just one that looks very similar to a CA one. Seeing as this is the same car as the one at the reveal which had the same plate.
 
I'd rather go with the latter because we're talking a 5 mile range hit, if that. Remember, aerodynamics are really only important at high speeds. People will still spend a lot of time driving around town at low speeds where drag is a non-factor. I would totally sacrifice a few miles at highway speeds for more broken necks around town. Well, I guess I'll still be breaking necks, but for the wrong reason.
If range at speed isn't important to you, you probably don't care about overall range either, and would be cool with say 50 miles of range.

But trust me, range at speed is very important. I have a LEAF and a Model X. The X has better aero. And trust me, I notice when I'm going 75mph on the freeway. Which is at least how fast I'm going when I'm going long distances, and actually need those 200 miles of range. On topic, I towed a (very not aerodynamic) trailer yesterday. I don't really notice the effects of pulling it under 55mph (about as bad as a really cold day, or a stiff head wind). But since most my driving was at 75mph, WOW. We're talking triple to quadruple energy consumption. I had to stop by a supercharger to put on 50 extra miles of range just to make it home, and barely at that. I traveled just over 100 miles, but used about 280 of "rated" range. Anyhow, fun anecdote. I'd never pull that trailer at that speed on an actual road trip, and it's definitely an order of magnitude difference from "slightly less aerodynamic Model 3", but it does illustrate the point that energy consumption goes up with the square of speed and aerodynamics, not just linearly.
 
If range at speed isn't important to you, you probably don't care about overall range either, and would be cool with say 50 miles of range.

But trust me, range at speed is very important. I have a LEAF and a Model X. The X has better aero. And trust me, I notice when I'm going 75mph on the freeway. Which is at least how fast I'm going when I'm going long distances, and actually need those 200 miles of range. On topic, I towed a (very not aerodynamic) trailer yesterday. I don't really notice the effects of pulling it under 55mph (about as bad as a really cold day, or a stiff head wind). But since most my driving was at 75mph, WOW. We're talking triple to quadruple energy consumption. I had to stop by a supercharger to put on 50 extra miles of range just to make it home, and barely at that. I traveled just over 100 miles, but used about 280 of "rated" range. Anyhow, fun anecdote. I'd never pull that trailer at that speed on an actual road trip, and it's definitely an order of magnitude difference from "slightly less aerodynamic Model 3", but it does illustrate the point that energy consumption goes up with the square of speed and aerodynamics, not just linearly.


Range at speed is very important. Thanks to the Supercharger network on the East Coast, there is a good chance the Model 3 replaces my wife's Impreza as the road trip car to visit her family in Virginia. If I can leave my house in N. Central MA and not need to stop for electrons until the other side of NYC, then I'll count that as a win.
 
If range at speed isn't important to you, you probably don't care about overall range either, and would be cool with say 50 miles of range.

But trust me, range at speed is very important. I have a LEAF and a Model X. The X has better aero. And trust me, I notice when I'm going 75mph on the freeway. Which is at least how fast I'm going when I'm going long distances, and actually need those 200 miles of range. On topic, I towed a (very not aerodynamic) trailer yesterday. I don't really notice the effects of pulling it under 55mph (about as bad as a really cold day, or a stiff head wind). But since most my driving was at 75mph, WOW. We're talking triple to quadruple energy consumption. I had to stop by a supercharger to put on 50 extra miles of range just to make it home, and barely at that. I traveled just over 100 miles, but used about 280 of "rated" range. Anyhow, fun anecdote. I'd never pull that trailer at that speed on an actual road trip, and it's definitely an order of magnitude difference from "slightly less aerodynamic Model 3", but it does illustrate the point that energy consumption goes up with the square of speed and aerodynamics, not just linearly.
wat

I didn't even read the rest of your post, but how does "I'd take a 5 mile range hit for better looks" equate to "I'm okay with only 50 miles of range"?

?????
 
Well, see, if they hit the promised drag coefficient then, ummm....well....

the "most" aerodynamic production car is a phrase that has been bandied about......


I get it, we're not going to see some rolling needle out there, but I don't dislike the design at all.
I don't dislike it either, but if a .22 Cd gives us a more beautiful car than .21, I'll take that any day of the week.
 
I suppose .01 of a difference won't destroy our range at speed, as long as the difference doesn't come from frontal surface area.

Maybe we gain a few inches of length in the back to achieve the promised "tweaked" trunk opening?
Exactly. Think the .24 of the S compared to the supposed .21 of the 3:

If the S60 has 210 miles of range, and an S75 has 249, that means we're looking at 2.6 miles per kWh. So, if the S had a 55kWh battery, it would have 197 miles of range. Now, if that S had a Cd of .21, it would have 215 miles of range. That's our 3! So a .03 Cd and 18 mile range difference means we gain approximately 6 miles per .01 change in Cd. I know these numbers don't scale and that the 3 is a different car with different cells than the S, but it's close enough for argument purposes. Give or take a mile.

The changes I'm talking about like enlarging the hood or lengthening the back would add maybe .01 Cd, which would reduce range by 6 miles. Big deal. Yet I think some of those things would go a long way toward improving both the aesthetic and functionality of Model 3. I repeat, I would gladly take a 6-12 mile range hit for those things. If it's really that big of a deal to you, just drive 1-2 mph slower and you've gained that range right back, probably more.

I know some people prioritize function over form, many on this forum, but lots of people like form, especially when buying an expensive car. There's a reason luxury vehicles are not hideous. I think Model S is an incredible-looking car, but there are ways to increase aerodynamics without compromising beauty. Tesla skipped that next step with Model 3 and went another step further which does compromise beauty to a degree. Not saying Model 3 is ugly, but it's a jarring jump between Tesla's first and second sedans. The world just isn't ready for such a jump from a style standpoint, hence all the discussion and controversy regarding the design.

I'm sure a design like this will be popular and even the norm in the future, but I just wish Tesla had waited until the Model 3 refresh or their next vehicle. I understand the marketing angle and maybe the controversial design actually boosted sales compared to a conventional-looking car. That we'll never know, but Tesla should have made these design choices gradually. The grill-less face is huge and all that the Model 3 needed to generate the buzz it required. But stubby-ing up the front and ballooning the back? Too far. These more subtle design changes have a huge effect on the style of the full package. Model 3 looks dorky from some angles and a cockroach or bug with a giant shell from others.

I must admit, it's very polarizing even in my own head. Some angles are striking, and some fill me with dread in the pit of my stomach (anybody else recall the very first moment you saw the front end during the reveal?). I just don't know how to feel about the car and it's incredibly frustrating because I want a Tesla so bad, but could never justify spending the money on an S. I keep telling myself that what's on the inside is far more important and valuable than what's on the outside. Looks are superficial, right? But man, I'm spending huge money on something that's not exactly what I want... people on the street are gonna say, "Oh look! There's one of those weird Teslas!" It won't be disgust, but it won't be desire or envy though. Probably just indifference. It'll be attention-grabbing, but not for the right reasons. People don't say and think those things when they see a Model S.

Still gonna buy the car tho.
 
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Exactly. Think the .24 of the S compared to the supposed .21 of the 3:

If the S60 has 210 miles of range, and an S75 has 249, that means we're looking at 2.6 miles per kWh. So, if the S had a 55kWh battery, it would have 197 miles of range. Now, if that S had a Cd of .21, it would have 215 miles of range. That's our 3! So a .03 Cd and 18 mile range difference means we gain approximately 6 miles per .01 change in Cd. I know these numbers don't scale and that the 3 is a different car with different cells than the S, but it's close enough for argument purposes. Give or take a mile.

The changes I'm talking about like enlarging the hood or lengthening the back would add maybe .01 Cd, which would reduce range by 6 miles. Big deal. Yet I think some of those things would go a long way toward improving both the aesthetic and functionality of Model 3. I repeat, I would gladly take a 6-12 mile range hit for those things. If it's really that big of a deal to you, just drive 1-2 mph slower and you've gained that range right back, probably more.

I know some people prioritize function over form, many on this forum, but lots of people like form, especially when buying an expensive car. There's a reason luxury vehicles are not hideous. I think Model S is an incredible-looking car, but there are ways to increase aerodynamics without compromising beauty. Tesla skipped that next step with Model 3 and went another step further which does compromise beauty to a degree. Not saying Model 3 is ugly, but it's a jarring jump between Tesla's first and second sedans. The world just isn't ready for such a jump from a style standpoint, hence all the discussion and controversy regarding the design.

I'm sure a design like this will be popular and even the norm in the future, but I just wish Tesla had waited until the Model 3 refresh or their next vehicle. I understand the marketing angle and maybe the controversial design actually boosted sales compared to a conventional-looking car. That we'll never know, but Tesla should have made these design choices gradually. The grill-less face is a huge and all that the Model 3 needed to generate the buzz it required. But stubby-ing up the front and ballooning the back? Too far. These more subtle design changes have a huge effect on the style of the full package. Model 3 looks dorky from some angles and a cockroach or bug with a giant shell from others.

I must admit, it's very polarizing even in my own head. Some angles are striking, and some fill me with dread in the pit of my stomach (anybody else recall the very first moment you saw the front end during the reveal?). I just don't know how to feel about the car and it's incredibly frustrating because I want a Tesla so bad, but could never justify spending the money on an S. I keep telling myself that what's on the inside is far more important and valuable than what's on the outside. Looks are superficial, right? But man, I'm spending huge money on something that's not exactly what I want... people on the street are gonna say, "Oh look! There's one of those weird Teslas!" It won't be disgust, but it won't be desire or envy though. Probably just indifference. It'll be attention-grabbing, but not for the right reasons. People don't say and think those things when they see a Model S.

Still gonna buy the car tho.




I appreciate all the math, but there's still one thing we don't know: the range we'll get thanks to the new 2170 packs. It's entirely possible that any "hit" we would take on a .01 Cd change would be negated by the efficiency of the new pack.

I know Elon is trying his damnedest to get the base Model 3 up to ~ 240 miles EPA, which was the advantage of letting GM drop the Bolt first. They laid their cards out, and now Tesla has an opportunity to best that, and I think they will.


My personal situation has changed since I put down my reservation (basically 13 miles in the car...one day/week), but my long distance use cases haven't changed. Road trips w/the wife and dogs, and one (maybe 2) trips to VA and back per year.

The in-town range really doesn't matter that much to me anymore, but I'm holding out a slight amount of hope that the aerodynamics, coupled with the efficiency gains in the new packs, can get me somewhere in between a 90D and the 100D in terms of highway range.


But yes, since a majority of my driving will probably be under 45mph, I'd like people to stop and stare because it looks nice, and not because they're looking at the "ugly bubble car" going by. :cool::cool:
 
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If range at speed isn't important to you, you probably don't care about overall range either, and would be cool with say 50 miles of range.

But trust me, range at speed is very important. I have a LEAF and a Model X. The X has better aero. And trust me, I notice when I'm going 75mph on the freeway. Which is at least how fast I'm going when I'm going long distances, and actually need those 200 miles of range. On topic, I towed a (very not aerodynamic) trailer yesterday. I don't really notice the effects of pulling it under 55mph (about as bad as a really cold day, or a stiff head wind). But since most my driving was at 75mph, WOW. We're talking triple to quadruple energy consumption. I had to stop by a supercharger to put on 50 extra miles of range just to make it home, and barely at that. I traveled just over 100 miles, but used about 280 of "rated" range. Anyhow, fun anecdote. I'd never pull that trailer at that speed on an actual road trip, and it's definitely an order of magnitude difference from "slightly less aerodynamic Model 3", but it does illustrate the point that energy consumption goes up with the square of speed and aerodynamics, not just linearly.
You really notice this when re-engining an airplane with a higher HP plant. Everyone expects a big bump in indicated airspeed, but no: your airspeed increase is actually the cube root of the increase in horsepower. By going from a 225 Continental to a 300 Lycoming, I gained.....four knots.
Those added knots were very, very expensive thanks to Mister Drag.
Robin
 
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