I know, I'm thinking if anything they probably should have simplified it and just had 2 settings "daily" and "range" charge. Daily would be the 90% charge. Trying to explain the estimated range being off at lower states of charge to average drivers would be a nightmare.
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Model 3 Performance Battery Degradation One Month (Story)
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NuclearPowered
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How the S used to be many versions ago.
Aside from that, running on an unbalanced pack will unevenly stress higher charged cells, leading to increased degradation. Balancing is a good thing and necessary to perform.
This is actually how the early Model S firmware worked. I think the daily charge level was 92%. Blame the EPA for Tesla having to abandon this in favor of the slider. EPA decided that if an EV had two range settings, the advertised range had to be the average of the two. This happened to the Leaf. But if there weren’t two ranges that could be averaged, then the 100% charge range could be advertised. So Tesla created the slider and could continue advertising the 100% range.[/QUOTE]
What’s interesting is that the Model S doesn’t do this, or at least not to the same extent. My wife’s 2017 S is charged to 80% and typically runs short hops, but it stays at basically the same extrapolated range, just over 3% off advertised range. The implication is that the algorithm the 3 uses and/or its BMS are significantly different and possibly less effective at estimating range.
Well, 80% may be a different story altogether than the 70% SOC I and at least some others were charging to with our 3's. I'm now thinking that 80 is as low as I'll go, for daily charging, even though my M-F commute is around 35 miles r/t. We will see if that results in somewhat better range estimates and doesn't futz as much with the balancing issue . . . .
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What's your personal opinion on how often one should balance, and what exactly do you do to balance your pack? (ie., run down to 10-ish%, then charge all the way back up to 100%, or something else? Also - Run the re-balance cycle just once, or more than once, to achieve re-balance?)
Looking for some experienced owners to pass on to us newer T-owners what's worked for them in this dept . . . .
I think for balancing you only need to charge to 100%.
You wouldn’t need to run it down. Basically what it’s doing is looking at the voltage of a bank of cells. If most of them are at 4.2v(100%) and one is at 4.1v it will start bleeding voltage off the 4.2v cells so that they don’t overcharge as it brings the 4.1v cells up to 4.2v. At the end they will all be 4.2v(100%).
If this never happens then that 4.1v cell bank continues to discharge slightly faster than the rest of the cells and gets more out of balance.
ViviV
Member
@FSKT As an owner of many Teslas since 2012 I have experience with charging, however in this case for Model 3 my personal opinion and that of experienced owners of other models may not be as important as what we are told by the service center. To that end, I am one of the unfortunate P3D owners listed by @Dannno with a 90% of 260 miles and 100% of 287-290 miles and I am working with my service center to resolve my concern. As much as I am frustrated by conflicting information (even from Tesla sources as noted in posts above) and data (eg from 3rd party apps), ultimately my only path to a solution is through Tesla service.
What I am being told by my service center (via the Tesla engineering team) is that the way in which Model 3 rebalances its battery is different from the other Tesla models. For Model 3 apparently sitting plugged in at 90% charge is what triggers battery rebalancing. What I have been asked to do is to leave it at 90% charge whenever it is plugged in and to allow the car to sleep during this time. That is, while it is sleeping at 90% I shouldn’t disturb it (i.e. check my app or other status including 3rd party apps). I am supposed to do this for 4 more weeks (apparently it didn’t sleep well enough in the first 2 weeks of doing this) since it can take some time for the range to adjust after rebalancing.
Since some posters have noted an improvement from doing a 10-100% charge I will also try this one day, but after doing this will continue to leave at 90% sleeping as much as possible. I refer to the P3D as my "baby" and now it needs to sleep like one too.
By the way, I do think it is crazy that I am being asked to re-balance a brand new battery. The charging capacity for this car has not changed (up or down) since delivery, although perhaps a few miles lower in the last 2-3 weeks. One day I tested 100% and it stopped at 284 miles (shown as 99% charge in 3rd party app) which extrapolates to 287 at 100%. I do not dispute that what they say is correct about how to rebalance the battery, but I am doubtful that it is what is wrong with my lowered battery range.
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TT97
Active Member
Some whiskey on the gums will help with the sleeping
I hadn't seen that anywhere else - good to know. I haven't had much issue with mine but this seems like an easy and safe solution to try if I do start seeing unexpected degradation.
@FSKT, thanks for the detailed response from tesla. I too will keep mine charged to 90% over the coming weeks and see if that helps.
@EvilCowPow, @RyanF, @D3xDt3Reaction, @stonelance, @doubleatheman,
Do any of you have, or can any of you install the Remote S app and get a reading from the section reading "Est. Charge: 65 of 72kWh"? And respond telling us what you have in place of 72kWh?
Thanks!
Edit: And anyone else who is having a similar problem. Let us know what it says in the app, and give us miles@90% and/or 100%
@EvilCowPow, @RyanF, @D3xDt3Reaction, @stonelance, @doubleatheman,
Do any of you have, or can any of you install the Remote S app and get a reading from the section reading "Est. Charge: 65 of 72kWh"? And respond telling us what you have in place of 72kWh?
Thanks!
Edit: And anyone else who is having a similar problem. Let us know what it says in the app, and give us miles@90% and/or 100%
ViviV
Member
So that people can see what @Dannno is referring to, here is the relevant screen shot from Remote S App for my P3D.
Est capacity = 72 kWh
Here is the screen shot for the P3D of a friend of mine whose battery charges to 310 miles (85%=263 miles extrapolates to 309 at 100%).
Est capacity = 77 kWh
Agree that it would be helpful to see what the estimated capacity of other P3D cars and their rated miles at 90% or 100%.
ViviV
Member
Yes, it is only available for iOS on the app store. It is useful and the Siri shortcuts are easy to use. I personally like: "Wake up Tesla" followed by "Turn on Climate" as I am walking to my car. Lots more choices for verbal commands including switching between cars.
Remote S for Tesla
gzerninplatz
Member
Hmmm....so in fact, the battery isn't degraded (maybe, keep reading), but your range actually is degraded - if charging will stop before all cells are charged.
I did the charge to 100%, go down 100% thing and still get (extrapolated) 290 charge on my AWD...so it isn't simply balancing. Brought it in, they said nothing wrong, though...but I'd say that 290 on a 310 pack is something wrong. (mine was fine for a month, lost 12 overnight, then 1 every day or two, then stabilized at 290)
I did the charge to 100%, go down 100% thing and still get (extrapolated) 290 charge on my AWD...so it isn't simply balancing. Brought it in, they said nothing wrong, though...but I'd say that 290 on a 310 pack is something wrong. (mine was fine for a month, lost 12 overnight, then 1 every day or two, then stabilized at 290)
favo
P3D+ owner
My P3D+ was built 7/21 and delivered 8/28. I have 1300 miles so far. I have always charged to 90% every night using NEMA 14-50. Never supercharged. I tend to drive 30-40 miles/day most days, and 60-80 once a week. I don't think I've been below about 160 miles of remaining range.
Initially, 90% showed 278-279 miles, about a month ago it was 276, in the last week or two, it has dropped off quite a bit to 265 today. So, barring some issue with my pack, 90% daily is not enough to fix the calibration. Maybe my pack is unbalanced. I will probably try a 100% charge. Not sure if it's better to discharge to some very low state (10 miles!?) first or what. Thoughts?
Initially, 90% showed 278-279 miles, about a month ago it was 276, in the last week or two, it has dropped off quite a bit to 265 today. So, barring some issue with my pack, 90% daily is not enough to fix the calibration. Maybe my pack is unbalanced. I will probably try a 100% charge. Not sure if it's better to discharge to some very low state (10 miles!?) first or what. Thoughts?
AWD non performance owner here. I started another thread but will post updates here.
I've had the car for about 2 months and have almost 2,000 miles on the odometer. I've never had the range stated to come close to matching the expected range. When I charge to 70%, I'm getting around 201 miles of range. That extrapolates to 287 at 100%. Based on recommendations to charge regularly to 90%, I did it last night. 259 miles of range at 90%. That calculates to 288 miles of range at 100%. I've tried to balance the battery before with very limited improvement. I'll continue to charge to 90%, but I don't think it's going to solve the issue.
I've had the car for about 2 months and have almost 2,000 miles on the odometer. I've never had the range stated to come close to matching the expected range. When I charge to 70%, I'm getting around 201 miles of range. That extrapolates to 287 at 100%. Based on recommendations to charge regularly to 90%, I did it last night. 259 miles of range at 90%. That calculates to 288 miles of range at 100%. I've tried to balance the battery before with very limited improvement. I'll continue to charge to 90%, but I don't think it's going to solve the issue.
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