Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Model 3 specs

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
#501
T34ME said:
That's Elon's conundrum, everyone has a different definition of what "premium" is based on their personal wants and desires. Elon's trying to make a car that is relatively affordable, relatively profitable, and relatively "premium." I don't fault what is on your list but those items/features are not on my list. For example, I define seat memory profile as "premium" and the model 3 has that. I define a high tech ventilation system as "premium" and model 3 has a feature that no one else has. I define an all glass roof as "premium" and the model 3 has that. I define a FSD capability interface as "premium" and model 3 has something no one else has. I don't expect anyone to agree with my list; I am personal and unique.

I guess Elon took the suggestion from Ricky Nelson in the Garden Party lyrics, "You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself."
Click to expand...

Wife an I are looking for a car for her. Base requirement is for as nice/ adjustable seat for the passenger as the driver (it will also be the car we take when both of us go somewhere). Amazing how few like that there are, Tesla being one that does.
So, yah, one person's premium is another's minimum (same deal with head room).
 
#502
T34ME said:
For example, I define seat memory profile as "premium" and the model 3 has that. I define a high tech ventilation system as "premium" and model 3 has a feature that no one else has. I define an all glass roof as "premium" and the model 3 has that. I define a FSD capability interface as "premium" and model 3 has something no one else has. I don't expect anyone to agree with my list; I am personal and unique.
Click to expand...
Seat memory is definitely premium.
Model 3 has ONE new design solution that solves small dashboard and adjustment problem. Overall, HVAC of Model 3 (well, actually Model S and X too) is far from high tech. AFAIK, it is industries standard solution, with very very few comfort features. HEPA is one of them.
Glass roof seems to be premium, but it is fixed and it doesn't have a shade. Though Tesla knows that it needs to have a shade (they offer that mesh to compensate).
FSD capability is a thing in the future. In my climate, AP 2.0 will not be able to drive me 3-4 months per year, even in 5 years.
New Nissan Leaf pretty much does the same as AP 1 and 2 does now. Pretty much the same.
It's all about perspective. When you see something better, you lose faith in illusions of other better.
 
#503
arnis said:
Seat memory is definitely premium.
Model 3 has ONE new design solution that solves small dashboard and adjustment problem. Overall, HVAC of Model 3 (well, actually Model S and X too) is far from high tech. AFAIK, it is industries standard solution, with very very few comfort features. HEPA is one of them.
Glass roof seems to be premium, but it is fixed and it doesn't have a shade. Though Tesla knows that it needs to have a shade (they offer that mesh to compensate).
FSD capability is a thing in the future. In my climate, AP 2.0 will not be able to drive me 3-4 months per year, even in 5 years.
New Nissan Leaf pretty much does the same as AP 1 and 2 does now. Pretty much the same.
It's all about perspective. When you see something better, you lose faith in illusions of other better.
Click to expand...

Seat memory is probably not premium, it isn't in the S/X. It will be available in the car's firmware whether activated or not. For software that is big enough to have as an after sale add on like autopilot and full autonomous driving, they can shut that on or off. Seat memory is a fairly minor feature comparatively and it will likely be included. The more they can include in the base car the better and memory seats are a gimme.
 
#504
It is premium. Premium for Model 3. It is not premium for Model S/X due to starting price.

Model 3 will not have electric seats as standard.
Electric seats are expensive. Much more than fog lights or dimming mirrors or rear seat heating or covered center console.
 
#505
arnis said:
Model 3 will not have electric seats as standard.
Electric seats are expensive.
Click to expand...

I think they will all be electric.
  • Tesla makes their own seats for S/X, do they also for the 3? iIf so
    • Internalized cost is less than purchased cost.
    • Manual seats will be a new design which requires engineering, crash validation, and manufacturing.
    • Seat cost/ production is amortized across all vehicle lines.
  • For comfort, seats at minimum need heat. They also have airbags. So there it won't drop the cost of harness and connectors entirely to go manual
  • Manual seats do not work well with TTaS
  • You cut out a large swath of the population in terms of fit if you go manual
    • Shorter people can get a boost
    • Taller people can sit lower with a sloped seat for leg support.
  • Kills resale/ trade-in value
Somewhat related
 
#506
mongo said:
  • Manual seats will be a new design which requires engineering, crash validation, and manufacturing.
Click to expand...
Crash validation is done on base vehicle. It hasn't been done on Model 3 yet. Doesn't matter how many seat versions are available.

  • 12-way, power adjustable front seats, steering column and side mirrors, with custom driver profiles
12 - way seats are premium option. It has been mentioned specifically. Therefore standard seats may not be 12 way AND/OR
may not be power adjustable. Otherwise Tesla is in trouble (one assumed one MUST choose premium to get xxxx).

Electric seats with servo motors cost a lot to produce in hundreds of thousands. Much more than design manual seats once.
Wiring for the manual and electric seat can be the same (car side).
 
#507
arnis said:
Crash validation is done on base vehicle. It hasn't been done on Model 3 yet. Doesn't matter how many seat versions are available.

  • 12-way, power adjustable front seats, steering column and side mirrors, with custom driver profiles
12 - way seats are premium option. It has been mentioned specifically. Therefore standard seats may not be 12 way AND/OR
may not be power adjustable. Otherwise Tesla is in trouble (one assumed one MUST choose premium to get xxxx).

Electric seats with servo motors cost a lot to produce in hundreds of thousands. Much more than design manual seats once.
Wiring for the manual and electric seat can be the same (car side).
Click to expand...

Clarification please. Is your claim
1. they will not have electric seats i.e. manual seats​
or
2. they will have reduced functionality electric seats​
 
#508
Either one of them would work for promise.
Neither of those two fits "one seat design" assumption.
It's also popular to have partially adjustable electric seats.
Usually, up-down powered, all else manual OR up-down and seatback powered, forward-backward manual.
Like this, BMW 5-series base seats (except this one has sport seat option: manually adjustable thigh support)
gallery_used-car-carlist-bmw-5-series-523i-m-sport-sedan-malaysia_7784342_760641756_v1sm.jpg
 
#509
@arnis
I see what you are referencing in the Premium Upgrades. However, given that it also lists power side mirrors, I think it may be a stretch to say the standard will not have all the features listed.

To hit the 35k target, they may indeed go bare bones/ reduced content one or both seats.
 
#510
Tesla is a small manufacturer and even when they hit full production of the 3, they will still be low volume overall compared to other manufacturers. If you rank car makers by worldwide volume (among those available in the US and eliminate specialty makers with only exotics), Subaru is the next maker up from Tesla and they are around 1 million cars a year. Tesla will barely be to Subaru level in a few years.

When a company is cranking out millions of cars, they can afford special low end options to keep the entry level cars cheap. The base Subaru models have manual seats, but the mechanism is shared across most of their cars and they probably sell 200K cars a year with manual seats. Few people will likely go for the stripped Model 3 and anything they do special for the stripped model will not be shared with any other car (at least not until they expand their lineup). If the base Model 3 had manual seats, they might only sell 10K a year. Tesla has to weigh the costs of keeping two seat manufacturing systems running.

They tend to drop low popularity features that has a manufacturing difference. I think that's why they dropped the solid roof on the Model S. Most people went for the panoramic roof and it was a different manufacturing procedure for the two roofs. With the solid glass roof, the only difference in manufacturing is the hookup time for the electrics around installation and running the extra wiring (which may be there anyway in both cars).

The solid glass roof in and of itself probably costs Tesla more in materials than the solid aluminum roof, but when manufacturing cost differences are weighed in, the solid glass roof is cheaper as the car rolls out the door.

It's possible Tesla will have manual seats on the base M3, but I think it is less likely than it would be with most other car makers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: omgwtfbyobbq and mongo
#511
wdolson said:
Few people will likely go for the stripped Model 3
Click to expand...

There are 38100 used BMW 3-series for sale at mobile.de (largest car selling site at Germany).
Out of those, 7150 have electrically adjustable seats. (likely 5-10% more, some forget to tick a box).
That is like 20%. It is not few. It is actually "most". Especially considering that Model 3 is cheaper than 3 series.
In terms of US + EU, I think Musk nailed it. My predictions are near 50:50 for both (LR vs SR and PUP vs basic).

wdolson said:
When a company is cranking out millions of cars, they can afford special
Click to expand...
BMW 3-series mechanical seats are different to most other series they have.
BMW sells around 300-500k 3-series annually. Pretty much Model 3 production estimations.

mongo said:
However, given that it also lists power side mirrors,
Click to expand...
100% of those 38100 have power side mirrors;)
 
  • Informative
Reactions: dhrivnak
#513
I think they added side mirrors to specify "custom profiles". Aka memory for side mirrors.
In case of BMW, mirror memory motors are more complicated (servo type, not regular DC brushless).
Actually, same story with seat motors. Passenger seat motors (without memory) or those motors used
on base seats that are "half-powered" are not servo type. AFAIK, significant price difference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: T34ME
#514
arnis said:
I think they added side mirrors to specify "custom profiles". Aka memory for side mirrors.
In case of BMW, mirror memory motors are more complicated (servo type, not regular DC brushless).
Actually, same story with seat motors. Passenger seat motors (without memory) or those motors used
on base seats that are "half-powered" are not servo type. AFAIK, significant price difference.
Click to expand...
Huh, if they are using brushless motors, tach level position feedback is basically free. If brushed, then no feedback (unless they do high resolution current sense on commutator pulses).
Non memory would be a differentiator (and could be SW based for future upgrade).
 
#516
oripaamoni said:
pretty sure they are referring to power folding side mirrors function not the actual mirror adjustment.
Click to expand...

Who can say? So many commas in this...
12-way, power adjustable front seats, steering column and side mirrors, with custom driver profiles
Click to expand...

Side mirrors are an FMVSS requirement. So it could mean the custom profile is the option (which is SW enabled so Tesla could upgrade CPOs later)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Model 3 Highland base model Demo Drive - Improvements and Setbacks compared to 2018 Model 3
Replies
7
Views
2K
Model 3
Lance From Jax
Lance From Jax
A
What's your odometer at? Who's gone the farthest?
Replies
3
Views
193
Model 3
Wennfred
Wennfred
B
Model 3 year over year changelog
Replies
25
Views
4K
Model 3
JCtx
JCtx
Y
disproportionate inner tire wear on single tire
Replies
5
Views
572
Model 3
cmaster
C
L
Ambient Lighting and Home Link on New S and X Models on Order page?
Replies
11
Views
3K
Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery
Chuckled
C
Top
Back
Blog
New
Forum list
Marketplace
Menu