Model 3 specs

[mongo]

Here's an idea.... Tesla needs to make a profit and has determined that paint is their current bottleneck. In order to be profitable they have eliminated (temporarily probably) their two least taken paint colors.

My thought process is they know better than us how much this will improve their production and delivery numbers for the remainder of 2018.

I'm not claiming anything regarding the reduction of color options or feasibility, nor critiquing Tesla's choice. Only stating that @arnis's suggestion does not require 10s of thousands of cars sitting around for months.
1: Collect orange orders for 2 months (or until threshold of profitability is reached)
2: Build that number of orange cars
3: Ship orange cars. I'm guessing there was a slight translation issue in typing "as soon as all oranges are ready" the 'all' was not meant/needed as a criteria of shipping any of them.

 

[voip-ninja]

I'm not claiming anything regarding the reduction of color options or feasibility, nor critiquing Tesla's choice. Only stating that @arnis's suggestion does not require 10s of thousands of cars sitting around for months.
1: Collect orange orders for 2 months (or until threshold of profitability is reached)
2: Build that number of orange cars
3: Ship orange cars. I'm guessing there was a slight translation issue in typing "as soon as all oranges are ready" the 'all' was not meant/needed as a criteria of shipping any of them.

That means that the longest order placers are potentially waiting 90 days from the time their order is placed to when their car arrives for pickup.... if you account for someone putting an order in, then wait time for that color to arrive at the paint shop (in your example they placed the order right after production of that color stopped and it won't come in again for 60 days) then another 30 days for quality checks and transport.

While people are currently waiting quite a long time for delivery, I don't think that people will routinely want to wait 60/90 days for delivery of their vehicle.

Additionally..... Tesla is trying to deliver cars to those who want more profitable configurations as fast as humanly possible right now, which benefits everyone... it benefits buyers who get to take advantage of full tax credit and it also benefits Tesla in using those higher profits per unit to continue funding operations while costs continue to drop so that later lower-priced builds net them more profit.

 

[arnis]

While people are currently waiting quite a long time for delivery, I don't think that people will routinely want to wait 60/90 days for delivery of their vehicle.

ALL except 50-60 thousand Model 3 orders will all take more than 2 months ANY WAY.
Halting black cars for 60 days will change nothing for those who ordered black car and have estimated delivery date not within two months as of today.

 

[mongo]

That means that the longest order placers are potentially waiting 90 days from the time their order is placed to when their car arrives for pickup.... if you account for someone putting an order in, then wait time for that color to arrive at the paint shop (in your example they placed the order right after production of that color stopped and it won't come in again for 60 days) then another 30 days for quality checks and transport.

While people are currently waiting quite a long time for delivery, I don't think that people will routinely want to wait 60/90 days for delivery of their vehicle.

Additionally..... Tesla is trying to deliver cars to those who want more profitable configurations as fast as humanly possible right now, which benefits everyone... it benefits buyers who get to take advantage of full tax credit and it also benefits Tesla in using those higher profits per unit to continue funding operations while costs continue to drop so that later lower-priced builds net them more profit.

Again, not saying Tesla should do it, not saying it makes sense to do it, only that it does not require 10s of thousands of cars sitting around.

If someone wants to wait 2 months for a color that's their call...

But regarding the financial impact:
If people waiting for a custom color causes Tesla to be demand limited now, that is bad for Tesla (and they should rethink what the standard colors are). Otherwise, they sell everything they build and it has zero impact to the bottom line. If it in pulls in people who only buy 'insert color here' cars, then it improves things for Tesla.

 

[wdolson]

Tesla already has to juggle a lot of things to keep production running smoothly. Every option adds a complexity and these things tend to multiply rather than add. 5 interior options and 3 wheel options is not 8 different configurations, it's 15. There are also variations that are not options if Tesla wants to sell cars in a particular country like right hand drive and other changes necessary to meet regulations in a particular country.

For example there are some variations necessary to sell cars in Canada vs the US. There was a thread here on the forum a few months back that someone in the US who had to move to Canada because of their job found out they couldn't license their Model S built for the American market in Canada without some changes and Tesla service centers aren't set up to make the changes.

Tesla mostly builds cars for specific markets in batches because the changes needed to the production line can be fairly major. Right hand drive being the biggest change. Elon tried to take the company private in part because of the 3 month cycle they have to do in production to get as many cars built per quarter delivered in the quarter they were built. That is an artificial strain on the system that is a giant headache for production flow.

Tesla eliminated some paint colors to streamline the bottleneck in production. Adding a limited color that will only be produced every 2 or 3 months sounds easy, but slotting it in with all the other complications that are there and can't change makes it a nonstarter I'm sure Tesla has zero interest in doing. Their interest is quite possibly negative if that's possible.

The only ways you can get an orange Tesla is take yours to a body shop or find an orange wrap. There was someone here on the forum who repainted their Model S copper a few years back and someone who had a pink Model X.

 

[dgpcolorado]

With regard to batching special paint colors, bear in mind that there are parts, such as bumper skins, that also need to match. It isn't just the paint shop that adds to the complexity of additional colors.

 

[Runt8]

Tesla already has to juggle a lot of things to keep production running smoothly. Every option adds a complexity and these things tend to multiply rather than add. 5 interior options and 3 wheel options is not 8 different configurations, it's 15. There are also variations that are not options if Tesla wants to sell cars in a particular country like right hand drive and other changes necessary to meet regulations in a particular country.

For example there are some variations necessary to sell cars in Canada vs the US. There was a thread here on the forum a few months back that someone in the US who had to move to Canada because of their job found out they couldn't license their Model S built for the American market in Canada without some changes and Tesla service centers aren't set up to make the changes.

Tesla mostly builds cars for specific markets in batches because the changes needed to the production line can be fairly major. Right hand drive being the biggest change. Elon tried to take the company private in part because of the 3 month cycle they have to do in production to get as many cars built per quarter delivered in the quarter they were built. That is an artificial strain on the system that is a giant headache for production flow.

Tesla eliminated some paint colors to streamline the bottleneck in production. Adding a limited color that will only be produced every 2 or 3 months sounds easy, but slotting it in with all the other complications that are there and can't change makes it a nonstarter I'm sure Tesla has zero interest in doing. Their interest is quite possibly negative if that's possible.

The only ways you can get an orange Tesla is take yours to a body shop or find an orange wrap. There was someone here on the forum who repainted their Model S copper a few years back and someone who had a pink Model X.

Right hand drive is easy, you just run the car through backwards.

 

[Spencer G]

What's funny is that people in the bay area (my coworkers in particular) are getting notice for pickup of their vehicles inside of 2 weeks. We live and work less than 10 miles from the factory. Isn't true they earn EV credits that they can sell to other car makers if they deliver to customers in California? It seems to be what they are focusing on now. Unfortunately the rest of the country is relatively suffering

 

[Runt8]

What's funny is that people in the bay area (my coworkers in particular) are getting notice for pickup of their vehicles inside of 2 weeks. We live and work less than 10 miles from the factory. Isn't true they earn EV credits that they can sell to other car makers if they deliver to customers in California? It seems to be what they are focusing on now. Unfortunately the rest of the country is relatively suffering

More like they’ve saturated their delivery pipeline and are trying to get as many deliveries in CA as they can before the end of the quarter.

 

[Abstrakt1]

What's funny is that people in the bay area (my coworkers in particular) are getting notice for pickup of their vehicles inside of 2 weeks. We live and work less than 10 miles from the factory. Isn't true they earn EV credits that they can sell to other car makers if they deliver to customers in California? It seems to be what they are focusing on now. Unfortunately the rest of the country is relatively suffering

We are actually seeing similar here in Utah. Our SC lot is packed with cars for delivery and the people I know with orders all have delivery dates now.

 

[CuriousSunbird]

Is there a physical difference between the Performance AWD and the regular AWD, or is the difference all in the software?

 

[Knightshade]

Is there a physical difference between the Performance AWD and the regular AWD, or is the difference all in the software?

All current evidence says software between the AWD and the P3D- (do a search and you'll find about 973 threads on the topic)

The P3D+ obviously has different brakes and a few other bits than the other versions (but there's no evidence the drive units are any different even in those)

 

[CuriousSunbird]

All current evidence says software between the AWD and the P3D- (do a search and you'll find about 973 threads on the topic)

The P3D+ obviously has different brakes and a few other bits than the other versions (but there's no evidence the drive units are any different even in those)

Thanks. So does that mean Tesla could substantially/almost upgrade AWD owners to P3D- with just a wifi update?

 

[Knightshade]

Thanks. So does that mean Tesla could substantially/almost upgrade AWD owners to P3D- with just a wifi update?

Based on all currently available evidence- they could do that yes.

There's no indication if they'd ever offer such a thing though- and if they did it'd almost certainly cost more than the price difference between the two models from the factory.

 

[wdolson]

Is there a physical difference between the Performance AWD and the regular AWD, or is the difference all in the software?

When the Performance version first came out, Elon said the Performance model would have "binned" motors. They would be the same motors as the AWD, but they would do testing and select the motors with higher output for the Performance cars. Though that doesn't sound like what they're doing now. There are stories of people getting AWD when they ordered P cars and Tesla just tweaks something in the firmware to turn on the Performance features. It may be the P3D+ cars are getting the binned motors, but the standard P3D is the same hardware as the standard AWD.

 

[mongo]

When the Performance version first came out, Elon said the Performance model would have "binned" motors. They would be the same motors as the AWD, but they would do testing and select the motors with higher output for the Performance cars. Though that doesn't sound like what they're doing now. There are stories of people getting AWD when they ordered P cars and Tesla just tweaks something in the firmware to turn on the Performance features. It may be the P3D+ cars are getting the binned motors, but the standard P3D is the same hardware as the standard AWD.

Since you put it in quotes, as if Elon said binned...

What he tweeted was

AC induction front & switched reluctance, partial permanent magnet rear. Silicon Carbide inverters in both. Performance drive units are lot sorted for highest sigma output & get double the burn-in.

If we go based on word choice (and previous sentence subject), lot sorting sounds to me like the better performing SiC FETs are sorted by the supplier and tracked to produce better performing inverters.
Otherwise, if the parts have a uniform distribution, lots don't make sense, unless the lots are formed after/ due to testing. It would also be easier and more effective to test the parts before assembly to avoid the averaging effect and maximize power sharing...

If only Tesla talked more...

 

[wdolson]

Since you put it in quotes, as if Elon said binned...

What he tweeted was

If we go based on word choice (and previous sentence subject), lot sorting sounds to me like the better performing SiC FETs are sorted by the supplier and tracked to produce better performing inverters.
Otherwise, if the parts have a uniform distribution, lots don't make sense, unless the lots are formed after/ due to testing. It would also be easier and more effective to test the parts before assembly to avoid the averaging effect and maximize power sharing...

If only Tesla talked more...

How did my mind come up with that term? They my have changed their procedure since he made that Tweet, who knows.

 

[Knightshade]

Since you put it in quotes, as if Elon said binned...

What he tweeted was

If we go based on word choice (and previous sentence subject), lot sorting sounds to me like the better performing SiC FETs are sorted by the supplier and tracked to produce better performing inverters.

No, based on word choice it doesn't sound like that at all.

Because the actual words say the drive units are lot sorted.

The inverters are one part inside the drive units.

So it'd be literally impossible to do what Elons words actually say if what you said was true.

 

[diamond.g]

When the Performance version first came out, Elon said the Performance model would have "binned" motors. They would be the same motors as the AWD, but they would do testing and select the motors with higher output for the Performance cars. Though that doesn't sound like what they're doing now. There are stories of people getting AWD when they ordered P cars and Tesla just tweaks something in the firmware to turn on the Performance features. It may be the P3D+ cars are getting the binned motors, but the standard P3D is the same hardware as the standard AWD.

I still get hung up on the VIN indicator for "engine/motor type". If there are differences then why are they allowed to lump the AWD with the P and P+ in the VIN?

 

[mongo]

How did my mind come up with that term? They my have changed their procedure since he made that Tweet, who knows.

Don't ask me, I was using it too till last week when I reread the tweet...

No, based on word choice it doesn't sound like that at all.

Because the actual words say the drive units are lot sorted.

The inverters are one part inside the drive units.

So it'd be literally impossible to do what Elons words actually say if what you said was true.

I may taking too much literary license: -drive units with the best FET lots are-
It would work though:

1. SiC supplier tests each FET
2. supplier groups FETs by performance (same deal like binning LEDs for color/brightness)
3. PCB assembler tracks which set of FETs is used for each inverter board. Each board gets tracibility code (standard process for tracibility in automotive)
4. Drive units assembled with inverters with the best FETs are flagged and given double burn in to verify performance. Again, serial number or other tracibility code.

This setup would produce more higher performance inverters and remove the amount/ precision of data logging at the drive unit level, since the electronics are known to be high performing.