Could a full disconnect and reconnect of 12v possibly reset something? I wonder if the bass improvement would go away if you went back to lead acid from lithium ion. I also wonder if their would be bass improvement if a lead acid 12v battery was disconnected and then reconnected. Very curious and interesting phenomenon.
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Model 3 subwoofer install.
- Thread starter SabrToothSqrl
- Start date
It’s a good thought. I guess the things that would argue against that would be 1) my bass sounded bad from the day I picked up the Model 3 with negligible miles, and 2) the bass has been consistently good for the 2-3 months since I switched to lithium. So if there’s some kind of ‘drift’ that occurred, it happened quickly after I took ownership, and hasn’t happened with the lithium yet...
The whole swap and penthouse disconnection thing is a bit of a pain, so I don’t really care to repeat it, but someone could try that experiment.
I understand not wanting to go through the experiment of trying the lead acid 12v battery again. Good idea if someone else is making the switch, perhaps first try the disconnect and reconnect on lead acid prior to switching to lithium ion.
Along those lines, is it possible that the simple action of disconnecting/reconnecting the items at the penthouse under the rear seat could be causing any of the improvement?
Not trying to challenge you in a mean way or anything, but I'm a sound guy from way back. Hearing is a very funny thing when it comes to bias. You tend to hear what you want to hear. For things like this, there's no substitute for measurement with gear that can actually measure objectively.
As I said elsewhere, if the extra juice a LiPo pack provides could make a difference, wouldn't temporarily providing a jumper pack's connection to the 12V connection right near the amplifiers allow for a very quick A/B test that could even be a blind test if you had an assistant?
I'm not saying it's impossible. It's just that listening to music in the car went from a daily chore to a daily enjoyment... seemed to be quite a difference for bias to be the reason. Plus, when you see similar reports in multiple forums, on amazon reviews, etc... it would be quite a coincidence. Not to mention the "get more bass" emblazoned at the top of the Ohmmu web page.
If anyone's thinking of making the switch, maybe they can measure frequency responses before and after the change to try and objectively measure this thing.
Someone had mentioned capacitors above. Back in the old days, it was quite common to install a cap to an audio system. Presumably it was because the cap discharges power quicker than the car battery which is what you need for a demanding power hungry sub. Perhaps these lithium batteries help the electrical system discharge power needed by sub amp and therefore the amp pushes the signal when needed. Just a guess.
I tried my own experiment tonight. Mind you, my stock lead-acid battery is fine. But I put a LiPo jumper on it, opened the doors, cranked the stereo, then switched the LiPo on and off to see if I could hear a difference. I could not. And I have pretty sensitive hearing from work in music production.
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everyone on here trying to say they are experts in whatever. since we are playing that game, i also have experience in the music and audio field. I was a sound designer for theatrical productions and concerts back before ipads were controlling faders and one had to actually hear the freqs by ear to adjust the eq for the system. i also produce music today and dare say yall may have heard some of my work on television. i also work in film and television production and know a thing or thrice about LKFS and LUFS measurements. I use DAT machines in my home studio and still use MiniDisc and DCC's to record audio.
The improvements in the sound stage and low freqs is not placebo. i KNOW how my music sounded PRIOR to the battery install. it has nothing to do with disconnecting a battery and reconnecting it. its plan old analog 12Vs giving more headroom and sustained power to the amps that take good old school 12V (regardless if they are digital its still 12V) . I too used to have a one farad cap in my cars back in the 90s when that was a thing and the improvement is nearly identical with this new battery install.
bunch of keyboard jockey experts saying this or that whilst those who have done this install have shared their real experience. even the ohmmu vendor states improvements in dropping their battery in. the premium system in the model 3 is not a typical basic system. its my understanding it has more than one amp and obviously more than one speaker so such a system can benefit from the improvements of this type of battery over the standard sound system in the basic model 3.
i mean whats the point of someone lying or trying to deceive others on this? I dont own any stock in this company and im not getting any kickbacks for saying what i have experienced. i also do not mean any disrespect to anyone and i am writing this message with a positive attitude and not trying to inflame or argue.
as a data point - I used "Feel the Bass" from DJ MAGIC MIKE. this was uncompressed wave audio from a vinyl record. some of yall old school cats remember his music from back in the day...
The improvements in the sound stage and low freqs is not placebo. i KNOW how my music sounded PRIOR to the battery install. it has nothing to do with disconnecting a battery and reconnecting it. its plan old analog 12Vs giving more headroom and sustained power to the amps that take good old school 12V (regardless if they are digital its still 12V) . I too used to have a one farad cap in my cars back in the 90s when that was a thing and the improvement is nearly identical with this new battery install.
bunch of keyboard jockey experts saying this or that whilst those who have done this install have shared their real experience. even the ohmmu vendor states improvements in dropping their battery in. the premium system in the model 3 is not a typical basic system. its my understanding it has more than one amp and obviously more than one speaker so such a system can benefit from the improvements of this type of battery over the standard sound system in the basic model 3.
i mean whats the point of someone lying or trying to deceive others on this? I dont own any stock in this company and im not getting any kickbacks for saying what i have experienced. i also do not mean any disrespect to anyone and i am writing this message with a positive attitude and not trying to inflame or argue.
as a data point - I used "Feel the Bass" from DJ MAGIC MIKE. this was uncompressed wave audio from a vinyl record. some of yall old school cats remember his music from back in the day...
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Back in the 90s I had my first decent car audio system with an a/d/s PH15.2 amp (vintage 6 channel audiophile amp known as the reference standard at the time) and after installing a 1 farad cap it did make a difference - still have that old car . I am not at all surprised that a much higher performing 12v battery makes a positive difference on the Tesla. Time for me to go shopping.
As posted above I agree with the statement made, "Hearing is a very funny thing when it comes to bias." I believe the context used was that someone could be hearing a perceived improvement that may not be there. This could also be interpreted as someone not hearing a real improvement because of a preconceived bias. Goes both ways.
everyone on here trying to say they are experts in whatever. since we are playing that game, i also have experience in the music and audio field. I was a sound designer for theatrical productions and concerts back before ipads were controlling faders and one had to actually hear the freqs by ear to adjust the eq for the system. i also produce music today and dare say yall may have heard some of my work on television. i also work in film and television production and know a thing or thrice about LKFS and LUFS measurements. I use DAT machines in my home studio and still use MiniDisc and DCC's to record audio.
The improvements in the sound stage and low freqs is not placebo. i KNOW how my music sounded PRIOR to the battery install. it has nothing to do with disconnecting a battery and reconnecting it. its plan old analog 12Vs giving more headroom and sustained power to the amps that take good old school 12V (regardless if they are digital its still 12V) . I too used to have a one farad cap in my cars back in the 90s when that was a thing and the improvement is nearly identical with this new battery install.
bunch of keyboard jockey experts saying this or that whilst those who have done this install have shared their real experience. even the ohmmu vendor states improvements in dropping their battery in. the premium system in the model 3 is not a typical basic system. its my understanding it has more than one amp and obviously more than one speaker so such a system can benefit from the improvements of this type of battery over the standard sound system in the basic model 3.
i mean whats the point of someone lying or trying to deceive others on this? I dont own any stock in this company and im not getting any kickbacks for saying what i have experienced. i also do not mean any disrespect to anyone and i am writing this message with a positive attitude and not trying to inflame or argue.
as a data point - I used "Feel the Bass" from DJ MAGIC MIKE. this was uncompressed wave audio from a vinyl record. some of yall old school cats remember his music from back in the day...
I don't think any of us would be in this forum if we didn't have an appreciation for the finer details in audio.
Headroom is a great way to describe the overall improvment.
No horse in this race either, just trying to help out.
I also reached out to Ohmmu via web form to see if they could post in here about their research. They've responded to me before when I've had technical questions.
There was a similar thread over on another Tesla forum that the Ohmmu owner weighed in on. He had a bunch of theories about voltage sag and sustained output (most of which I don't think hold water based on the info we have available), but at the end of the day admitted they don't have any evidence supporting this claim and that it was all anecdotal. He offered to do some testing in his own vehicle but never followed through, or at least never posted the results.
I'd love to be wrong here, but I'm firmly in the skeptic camp at this point.
I'd love to be wrong here, but I'm firmly in the skeptic camp at this point.
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everyone on here trying to say they are experts in whatever. since we are playing that game, i also have experience in the music and audio field. I was a sound designer for theatrical productions and concerts back before ipads were controlling faders and one had to actually hear the freqs by ear to adjust the eq for the system. i also produce music today and dare say yall may have heard some of my work on television. i also work in film and television production and know a thing or thrice about LKFS and LUFS measurements. I use DAT machines in my home studio and still use MiniDisc and DCC's to record audio.
The improvements in the sound stage and low freqs is not placebo. i KNOW how my music sounded PRIOR to the battery install. it has nothing to do with disconnecting a battery and reconnecting it. its plan old analog 12Vs giving more headroom and sustained power to the amps that take good old school 12V (regardless if they are digital its still 12V) . I too used to have a one farad cap in my cars back in the 90s when that was a thing and the improvement is nearly identical with this new battery install.
bunch of keyboard jockey experts saying this or that whilst those who have done this install have shared their real experience. even the ohmmu vendor states improvements in dropping their battery in. the premium system in the model 3 is not a typical basic system. its my understanding it has more than one amp and obviously more than one speaker so such a system can benefit from the improvements of this type of battery over the standard sound system in the basic model 3.
i mean whats the point of someone lying or trying to deceive others on this? I dont own any stock in this company and im not getting any kickbacks for saying what i have experienced. i also do not mean any disrespect to anyone and i am writing this message with a positive attitude and not trying to inflame or argue.
as a data point - I used "Feel the Bass" from DJ MAGIC MIKE. this was uncompressed wave audio from a vinyl record. some of yall old school cats remember his music from back in the day...
You are jumping to the conclusion that I am challenging whether or not the increase in bass is real. I am curious about it since there are more than one person saying it’s real, but there is no explanation as to why. I would like to understand it because I do believe it. No need to rate my post as disagree when I am asking a question about why the phenomenon.
Just out of curiosity for those of you that have made the 12V LiON swap....have you done this in other cars (non-Tesla) before and also noticed a benefit for your stereo performance? Sounds intriguing, but I also understand the skepticism around it.
Regardless, when its time to swap out my current battery, I will be converting to LiON for the other benefits its provides....if improved low frequency response is on that list as well...bonus!
Regardless, when its time to swap out my current battery, I will be converting to LiON for the other benefits its provides....if improved low frequency response is on that list as well...bonus!
Honestly, I hadn't had this concern before, because the other car I'd owned in this price range had acceptable bass response with the factory premium audio.
If you've worked in audio a lot, then you know how bias and hearing work. I don't trust my own ears when doing mixdown work for more than the first 30 minutes or so, and even then I've been fooled from one day to the next as humidity changes, my allergies kick in a little, or something else in the environment changes. Nobody is trying to accuse you of pulling the wool over our eyes, we are just interested in seeing something measured so we can verify what your ears are telling you.
I haven't heard whether the lead-acid battery you replaced was in good shape before you replaced it? If it was already on its way out, then that might explain part of the difference. Or maybe it had poor connections?
As for Ohmmu's claims, well...of course they're going to claim that. I'm more interested in the anecdotes I keep hearing from real customers. But yes, I'm skeptical, too.
As I mentioned above, I did try it with a jumper pack, and heard zero change in sound going from with to without. But that was augmenting the existing battery, which should be in good shape at only 1000 miles or so.
He mentioned that his Model 3 was manufactured in March of 2020 so the lead acid should have been fine.
My 3 was manufactured Dec 2019 and I noted the poor bass when I took delivery, at under 30 miles on the odometer
Hmmm...well, given that some people have had very early battery failures, I have to wonder.
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