TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Model 3 Trim Levels with competition

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Kevin Harney, Apr 27, 2015.

  1. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    2,052
    Location:
    Herndon, VA
    #1 Kevin Harney, Apr 27, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2015
    Model 3 Trim Level Discussion

    Since my top trim created some need for this I decided to do the research and see what shook out. So here's my guess.

    Size Chart


























    Dimensions Model 3 3 Series A4/5 C Class
    Width 73" 73" 73" 72"
    Length 185" 184" 182" 187"
    Wheel Base 110" 110" 108" 111"
    Base Trim Levels






































    Base Trim Level Tesla Model 3 BMW 320i Audi A4 Mercedes C 300
    Horsepower 250 180 220 241
    0-60 mph 6.0 7.1 6.6 6.2
    Top Speed 130 130 130 unlisted
    Range (HWY) 250 568 515 612
    Price (USD) $ 35-45K $ 33-49K $35-56K $38-58
    Mid Trim Levels






































    Mid Trim Level Telsa Model 3 BMW 335i Audi S4 Mercedes C 400
    Horsepower 350 300 333 329
    0-60 mph 4.5 5.1 4.9 5.2
    Top Speed 155 130 155 unlisted
    Range (HWY) 350 505 418 unlisted
    Price (USD) $ 45-65K $ 44-67K $ 48-64 $49-67
    Top Trim Levels






































    Top Trim Level Tesla Model 3 BMW M3 Audi S4 Prestige Mercedes AMG C63
    Horsepower 600 425 333 503
    0-60 mph 2.5 3.8 4.9 4.4
    Top Speed 165 163 155 155
    Range (HWY) 450 416 416 323
    Price (USD) $60-80K $ 62-87K $ 48-65K $ 64-84K
     
  2. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,645
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    That 450 mile range... that will be hard to do.
     
  3. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    With the 2.5 seconds acceleration. We can assume they model would be a dual motor version with that acceleration so would weigh a little more and take a slight hit on the range.
     
  4. No2DinosaurFuel

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2015
    Messages:
    780
    Location:
    San Diego, California
    assuming 290Wh/mi (optimistic) on the highway, we are looking at 130KWh battery for the 450 miles version. Doable but probably not on the Model 3 because this will most likely be only on the Model S. Doing so, will probably canabalize the Model S sales. the 350 mile range sounds more like the high end version of the Model 3.
     
  5. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,645
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    You can easily get 290Wh/mi with the Model S on the highway. I was more assuming 230-240Wh/mi on the highway which would make 450 miles possible with the theoretical 105kWh battery. The reason why I'm saying it will be hard is that I assume that the physical dimension of the battery for the Model 3 will be smaller and that while 105kWh will be available soon for S and X I'm not sure they'll be able to squeeze that into the smaller space of the Model 3.
     
  6. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,487
    Using the current Model S configurations as a guide, I would expect this number to be a drop from the Mid Trim -- so more like 300 or 325.
     
  7. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,117
    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Always interesting to see what is considered "Base" trim in the US. A Mercedes C 300 is a "Base" trim??? Over here a 300 is more or less top of the line. At least when it comes to Diesels. And even in the gasoline lineup a 300 is quite high up. Our range looks like this:

    Diesel:
    C 180
    C 200
    C 220
    C 250
    C 300

    Gasoline:
    C 160
    C 180
    C 200
    C 250
    C 300
    C 400
    C 450
    C 63 AMG

    And even with the 3 series, there is a 316 and 318 below the 320 :)
     
  8. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,138
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    However, having the lower base trims in Europe is all about fuel efficiency and high gas prices. Expect a Model 3 to have a fairly powerful motor even in the base, because with a battery big enough to give over 200 miles of range there's no reason not to.
     
  9. ryanjm

    ryanjm Tesla Podcast Host

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    377
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Aren't we having most of this exact discussion in the "Top of the Line" thread?
     
  10. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2014
    Messages:
    2,408
    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    Model ≡ [WHISKEY ALPHA GOLF] Specifications

    Width 74"
    Length 190"
    Height 56"
    Wheelbase 114"
    Curb Weight 3,700 lbs

    Model ≡ 60 -- RWD*, 300 HP, 300 lb-ft Torque, 0-60 5.5 seconds, 225-250 miles EPA rated range

    Model ≡ 60D -- AWD, 380 HP, 400 lb-ft Torque, 0-60 4.9 seconds, 230-260 miles EPA rated range

    Model ≡ 85D -- AWD, 400 HP, 400 lb-ft Torque, 0-60 3.7 seconds, 255-285 miles EPA rated range

    Model ≡ 100D -- AWD, 400 HP, 450 lb-ft Torque, 0-60 3.2 seconds, 300-335 miles EPA rated range

    Model ≡ P135D -- AWD, 600 HP, 800 lb-ft Torque, 0-60 2.5 seconds, 405-450 miles EPA rated range

    * I strongly suspect there will be no single motor, RWD version of Tesla
    Model ≡ at all.
     
  11. No2DinosaurFuel

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2015
    Messages:
    780
    Location:
    San Diego, California
    #11 No2DinosaurFuel, Apr 29, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
    I doubt you can get those numbers unless you are going < 55mph on the highway. Most people here are reporting lifetime wh of around 300-400wh/mi for their model S and this is including city driving which is suppose to be more efficient. This means the HWY wh/mi is much higher. Like I said, 290wh/mi is optimistic for a tesla.

    Just to throw some math around:

    According to wiki,
    Tesla Model S - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The new 85D gets 106mpge or 34Kwh for every 100 miles driven. Or 340wh/mi. Even if we are optimistic, hence the 290Wh/mi, we get back to the numbers I have. If you argue the Model 3 will have lower drag so it gets better mpge, then lets entertain that number:

    129 mpge? This mean it goes 129miles per 33.7Kwh of energy or 260wh/mi. Still higher than your number. To achieve, 230-240Wh/mi, you are looking at 140.6 mpge before you get to that point.

    Again for reference, the most efficient EV on HWY right now according to wiki is the BMW i3 at 111mpge. The spark EV is incorrect and if you go to the website, it's really only 109 mpge. Keep in mind, the i3 is a much lighter vehicles because of it's carbon fiber frame and such. @ 111 mpge, you are looking at 303kwh/mi
    Plug-in electric vehicles in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Spark EV real HWY mpge
    Gas Mileage of 2015 Chevrolet Spark

    IF anything the best I think the model 3 can achieve optimistically will be 120 mpge range which is pretty close to what my numbers are giving.
     
  12. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,138
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    No it isn't. The EPA rates the Model S as 88 MPGe city and 90 MPGe highway. My mostly highway commute averages 290-300wh/mile, but I usually use 330-340 wh/mile around town.
     
  13. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,645
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Interesting you say that. There are people here reporting below 280Wh/mi lifetime for their cars.
    And no, city traffic is defintely NOT more efficient than going 65mph on the highway. On a trip a week and a half ago I averaged 287Wh/mile driving 55-70mph (mostly 65-70) over 96 miles in my P85D. I rarely manage to stay below 320Wh/mile in the city.
    Biggest factor is temperature. If it's 70 outside with little wind 290Wh/mile is easy to beat.
    Don't believe me? How about believing Tesla. Here's what they claim as range when going 65mph (Driving Range for the Model S family) 85D: 295 miles. The 85kWh gives you about 75kWh of usable energy so that means 254Wh/mile. For the 60 (RIP) they list 215 miles which (at 52kWh usable) gets you 242Wh/mile.
     
  14. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    We are for the most part.

    I'm glad at least most people here are able to write the number 3 as that's what Tesla has officially called it at this point. Some people really seem to get a kick out of writing the symbol for some reason
     
  15. wallet.dat

    wallet.dat Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    446
    Location:
    SW
    Assuming TMC wants to compete with BMW's 3-series at all levels, we can reasonably expect that the Model 3 will be capable of a high 11-sec 1/4 mile time. Also assuming that the Model 3 will be lighter than the Model S, we can also reasonably expect that ~600hp will get us to there, so I think your stats for a "P135D" are on point.

    And I'm not sure why you keep referring to it as a Model E (using T≡SLA's font) when it's already been officially stated that it will be known as the Model 3 :)
     
  16. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2014
    Messages:
    2,408
    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    As I have already pointed out to the moderators and other enthusiasts here, I believe that Tesla Motors will use the '≡' symbol on the back of the Generation III cars themselves.

    Please note that when asked, Elon Musk specified the vehicle could be referred to either as '3'or as three horizontal lines -- not Roman numerals.

    Since I am not a BMW fan, I would prefer my posts not be confused with the performance version of their 3-Series vehicles.

    How to properly write Model 3 - Thanks Elon! - Page 2
     
  17. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    If you write M3, sure there could be confusion. If you write Model 3 I don't see how anyone could confuse that with BMW. Please show where Elon said it could be written with the symbol you love. Why not make that your avatar then every post will include it. How cool would that be?
     
  18. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    2,138
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    If they were ever considering it, I'm sure that seeing how annoyed people on these forums have become about the whole thing has convinced them not to. :wink:
     
  19. aronth5

    aronth5 Long Time Follower

    Joined:
    May 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,436
    Location:
    Boston Suburb
    Agree
     
  20. Fiver

    Fiver Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2015
    Messages:
    663
    Location:
    Utah

Share This Page