MODEL S COMPUTER WONT BOOT-UPDATE PUSHED WITHOUT NOTIFICATION

[CdaleP85d]

I AM SCREWED.
This is a crappy place to be.

An update was pushed without notification that rendered my car un-drive-able to a service center that is located over 2 10000 ft mountains in the winter when I have know energy management and charge limit setting access. My car is set to 150 daily which will get me 80 miles in cold weather.

I have a solid LAN at my residence. Bought Model S P85D in March 2015 (Lud upgrade 2017) 59k miles.
We have been notified via center screen in our Model S of every update and given option to push, schedule cancel. Scheduled is the standard. My wife Inna and I have been using our mobile wifi connect app without issue for 3 1/2 years and, without fail the updates have all gone through.
We recently purchased a Model 3, connected to same network, parked 3 feet daily/nightly/yearly from the Model S. We have a WAP 6 feet from the vehicles for connectivity that extends 1/4 mile from our house on a good day. (garage doors function).
The Model 3 has had 3 updates since purchase and even has a trial of Auto pilot for 30 days functioning quite nicely and I was considering upgrading.....

This update happened 3 or 4 days ago.

THE ISSUE:
Something happen to our Model S Nov 8th between 7pm and 9am Nov 9th.
Inna got into Tars and the center console would not boot and constantly tries to reboot when in the vehicle.
The center console has the Tesla T but goes black and tries over and over.
The Dash console looks normal but you cant control anything with scroll wheels.
Windows do not operate. Heat and all electronic functions do not work.
I have warnings of low tire pressure, and a message
"Regenerative braking has been improved"
Dash and center screens dim and messages repeat while Tesla T is static on center screen before going dark and trying to initiate.

Inna spent the whole morning on hold with tesla. they troubleshot for 3 hours.
Soft reboot after soft reboot.
Tesla stated the update has been sitting for 10 days but has not gone through because of wifi.
I mentioned earlier, Inna and I have been using the car without issue , normally via app etc..

Tech support said tow the car in at my expense 150 miles to Denver from Carbondale, Co
Mobile support called me after I called Main Tesla (2 hour call) (Denver service does not answer phones anymore since Model 3 launch)
Mobile service had me pull the main fuse for the MCU..... viola SAME RESULT.

Point...
HOLY *sugar* Telsa killed my Tesla without telling or asking if it was OK.

I guess I drive it until it dies and have Roadside get it or pay to tow it 150 miles over Vail pas and continental divide.



I am getting it without a kiss and then a black eye. hmmmmmm

 

[whitex]

It might not have been an update that killed it, it may have just failed. Tesla saying there was an update waiting may not have anything to do with this. As for Tesla WiFi, it's one of the crappiest quality WiFi device I have ever come across. It is extremely fragile and disconnects if you look at it funny. See other threads on this topic, but the relevant things from my experience are these:

1. Since the new MCU came out earlier this year, there seems to be some bleedthrough in their software and I had to disable 5GHz band on the WiFi, or else the 2015 car could not stay stable connected.
2. After v9 update I realized that our 2 Model S, 2015 and 2018 seem to interfere with each other somehow. I had to create a separate network for each car (2.4GHz only for 2015 and 2.4GHz/5Ghz for 2018, connected to same subnet but separate wireless SSID's) - it seems to work for the last few weeks.

So, your Model 3 might have in fact interfered with Model S connectivity, or simply Model S connectivity got unstable because some planets were out of alignment. That said, I would disconnect the Model 3 and any other devices from your WiFi, disable 5GHz band (and any band steering) if you have it enabled, then let the car connect (your router should be able to tell you if your car has connected) and then call Tesla so they can remote into the car to do some further diagnostics (or push an update, though I doubt very much a missing update is the issue).

 

[CdaleP85d]

Thanks for the quick insight. Makes sense and worth trying.

I apparently did not convey what is happening clearly.
I should have said the model 3 is away while the troubleshooting was going on.
Tesla has done all of the remote connectivity.
They can see it, they cant do anything to it because the computer is not loading completely for what ever packets they are attempting to send.
It is obvious to me the network device boots independently from the MCU but I have no way of managing it in the model s.
I have never seen my cars on the network. Maybe you can help with a mac address scheme for me to look for?

We have reset the fuse under the frunk for the MCU. they can see it go offline and back online, I cannot.. Mobile access does not work from my end.
They see that an update was attempted. They "hammered" etc. no good.
What I see is a dark screen with a large T that comes and goes.
My Car will not boot its main screen. I cannot change wifi settings or access any functions.
My computer tries to start then turns off every 40 secs or so.
I never received an update notice.
The dash console is the only item that illuminates and I have no heat control for driving in the winter.

 

[sorka]

Did you also reboot the instrument cluster? (hold two upper buttons on steering wheel).
Reboot both that and MCU at the same time.

If that doesn't work, when you reboot the MCU, reboot it again WHILE the Tesla logo is displayed. I had something similar happen to me with an endless reboot loop but the car was drivable. I was driving to the service center when I decided to reboot WHILE the MCU was already in the beginning of a reboot and it came back to life.

 

[appleguru]

Most likely the eMMC flash on your MCU is failing/has corrupted itself and is stuck not booting now. There is a good chance your MCU needs to be replaced.

Updates get “staged” before they get installed. That means, the car will download new firmware from tesla and write it to your car’s flash memory before ever prompting you to update. Once you get prompted, the update is basically already installed. When you push “go”, it will tell the MCU to boot to the new firmware, and then will update all of the firmware for the other devices in the car and verify that everything installed correctly.

It is very possible that this latest update was the “straw that broke the camel’a back” as they say for your MCU, though it is really hard to say without looking at the car’s logs/etc (which, ironically, are also part of the problem as tesla is constantly hammering the flash memory with logging info).

 

[appleguru]

Also, the car should drive in this state. So you shouldn’t need a tow.

 

[CdaleP85d]

Thanks for confirming what I suspected. Not looking for any more sympathy. I just wont have any heat on the way to denver over 2 10000 ft passes in winter with windows fogging and no defrost.

The big questions
IS THE MCU a warranty item with Tesla?

 

[patrick40363]

Thanks for confirming what I suspected. Not looking for any more sympathy. I just wont have any heat on the way to denver over 2 10000 ft passes in winter with windows fogging and no defrost.

The big questions
IS THE MCU a warranty item with Tesla?

Looks like your warranty is gone due to the miles driven.

 

[hiroshiy]

I've heard horror stories about eMMC dying due to extensive rewrites current Tesla firmware conducts. So @appleguru , is there a way for a consumer to replace eMMC chip on the MCU? Is it soldered?

 

[CdaleP85d]

Well that is real BS. This is a software issue !!
not hardware reasonable “wear and tear” like pads, a window switch, actuator.....
I didn’t know, ask or need the firmware etc...
My car was crippled while I slept.
Have to get away from Tesla if this a reality,

Think about it. My out of warranty car was corrupted by the manufacturer while slept and I will now have to pay to fix it.
Appleguru... I get the explanation you gave but the outcome is... my out of warranty car now is a partially functioning vehicle by no fault of mine.
It was sleeping and violated.
They should offer to field replace MCU

 

[CdaleP85d]

Thanks

Most likely the eMMC flash on your MCU is failing/has corrupted itself and is stuck not booting now. There is a good chance your MCU needs to be replaced.

Updates get “staged” before they get installed. That means, the car will download new firmware from tesla and write it to your car’s flash memory before ever prompting you to update. Once you get prompted, the update is basically already installed. When you push “go”, it will tell the MCU to boot to the new firmware, and then will update all of the firmware for the other devices in the car and verify that everything installed correctly.

It is very possible that this latest update was the “straw that broke the camel’a back” as they say for your MCU, though it is really hard to say without looking at the car’s logs/etc (which, ironically, are also part of the problem as tesla is constantly hammering the flash memory with logging info).

G

 

[CdaleP85d]

Are you saying when I hold the two wheels(which has been done) that the MCU is rebooted? I’ve gone so far as to pulling the fuse with mobile tech support.

Did you also reboot the instrument cluster? (hold two upper buttons on steering wheel).
Reboot both that and MCU at the same time.

If that doesn't work, when you reboot the MCU, reboot it again WHILE the Tesla logo is displayed. I had something similar happen to me with an endless reboot loop but the car was drivable. I was driving to the service center when I decided to reboot WHILE the MCU was already in the beginning of a reboot and it came back to life.

 

[CdaleP85d]

Btw
I have done every suggestion given.
Reconfigured network and model 3 connection.
Held wheels while T is on screen.

 

[brkaus]

I don’t think anything updated. I think the MCU just died.l while you slept.

Why do you feel it is due to a new firmware? As you said, you didn’t install anything.

Of course, this really doesn’t change the big picture. Maybe if they can hook directly to it, the firmware can be reinstalled and resolve the issue. But if the memory chip failed...

Not sure if you have a chance at courtesy repair from Tesla or not.

There is someone here that repairs them. No idea on process or cost.

These reports do scare me about my S. Please keep us updated!

 

[appleguru]

They should offer to field replace MCU

I don't disagree, and if you push them you may well get them to goodwill it, but technically your car is out of warranty so they owe you 'nothing'.

The update (most likely) did not cause the failure, though it may well have "sped it up" due to accelerating the writes to the flash memory.

Flash memory *is* something that has a finite lifetime and a limited number of write cycles. So the fact that Tesla engineering did not make the eMMC itself a field replaceable part, nor do they appear to do anything in their code to limit the wear on the flash so that it could last the lifetime of the vehicle is nuts to me.

The eMMC is soldered to the board. It can be replaced/reworked by a skilled technician, but even doing so won't get you back online as you would need to re-image that memory with something. I suspect that there will likely be a nice niche business in the next few years repairing failed out of warranty Tesla MCUs as it is a very expensive part to replace at Tesla.

Tesla *may* be able to "refresh" your unit and get it back up and running again, but even if that works there is a chance they are just delaying the inevitable if the flash is really failing. Very hard to say though without more details about what is going on under the hood.

 

[CdaleP85d]

I feel this way because of the message I focused my camera in on , in my video “regenerative braking has been improved.” “I may experience slightly stronger braking.”
I interpreted this new message ,that is stuck in loop, as something was “updated “
Tesla stated a updated was attempted.

I agree from research and all of your insights that my MCU has failed.
I am not ok with “repeated updates “ when my car is out of warranty that I cannot decline or accept.
I always waited until my cars in the past weee out of warranty before I made performance mods.

I don’t think anything updated. I think the MCU just died.l while you slept.

Why do you feel it is due to a new firmware? As you said, you didn’t install anything.

Of course, this really doesn’t change the big picture. Maybe if they can hook directly to it, the firmware can be reinstalled and resolve the issue. But if the memory chip failed...

Not sure if you have a chance at courtesy repair from Tesla or not.

There is someone here that repairs them. No idea on process or cost.

These reports do scare me about my S. Please keep us updated!

 

[CdaleP85d]

I don't disagree, and if you push them you may well get them to goodwill it, but technically your car is out of warranty so they owe you 'nothing'.

The update (most likely) did not cause the failure, though it may well have "sped it up" due to accelerating the writes to the flash memory.

Flash memory *is* something that has a finite lifetime and a limited number of write cycles. So the fact that Tesla engineering did not make the eMMC itself a field replaceable part, nor do they appear to do anything in their code to limit the wear on the flash so that it could last the lifetime of the vehicle is nuts to me.

The eMMC is soldered to the board. It can be replaced/reworked by a skilled technician, but even doing so won't get you back online as you would need to re-image that memory with something. I suspect that there will likely be a nice niche business in the next few years repairing failed out of warranty Tesla MCUs as it is a very expensive part to replace at Tesla.

Tesla *may* be able to "refresh" your unit and get it back up and running again, but even if that works there is a chance they are just delaying the inevitable if the flash is really failing. Very hard to say though without more details about what is going on under the hood.

Thanks for your continued input.

THE REAL QUESTION TO EVERYONE.
Any idea what the replacement costs of MCU has been in the past?

 

[CdaleP85d]

I dont know how safe driving is in this state.
looks like a 500 dollar tow 150 miles and 3-5k repair for 12 moving parts.
what a crock
we got 3 years 6 months out of our 150k telsa before major repairs . so much for a better car.

 

[appleguru]

I dont know how safe driving is in this state.
looks like a 500 dollar tow 150 miles and 3-5k repair for 12 moving parts.
what a crock
we got 3 years 6 months out of our 150k telsa before major repairs . so much for a better car.

Did the instrument cluster reboot on its own? Or did you do that?

Other than not having your MCU (so no remote connectivity, cabin heat or music) the car should be fully functional.

 

[CdaleP85d]

Did the instrument cluster reboot on its own? Or did you do that?

Other than not having your MCU (so no remote connectivity, cabin heat or music) the car should be fully functional.

Rebooted on its own while driving around the block.