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Model S Driver Fatality in Winnipeg (car hit by dump truck)

Discussion in 'News' started by Kevin Michaluk, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. Kevin Michaluk

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  2. gene

    gene Active Member

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    Condolences
     
  3. Xenius

    Xenius Member

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    Very sad, not a statistic we ever wanted to reach.
     
  4. jthompson

    jthompson JThompson

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    A sad day....
     
  5. Dbitter1

    Dbitter1 Journeyman Member

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    A very sad incident, indeed. Condolences.

    Does anyone have more details? The picture looks like he took a hard T-bone, one of the hardest crashes due to lack of crumple zone... but it looks like the roof support pillars are out in front, too. The science of exactly what failed here is certainly important... not only structural, but if EBS had any effect as well.

    It is so very reassuring to see that the CEO of the company so boldly stands behind safety as a prime directive (e.g. at the MX launch event and interviews elsewhere) rather than profit margin. I hope we can make things even better.
     
  6. RiverBrick

    RiverBrick Active Member

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    It is possible rescue crews cut open parts of the car as well. Imagine the weight of the truck if it was full of sand and salt. Also, I wonder if the plow was one of those arrow-shaped ones.
     
  7. Rockster

    Rockster Active Member

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    Truly heartbreaking, especially this time of year. There's something especially saddening about losing a loved one during the holiday season.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Does the title of the article seem a bit biased to you ? "...after car collides with dump truck"? And even the second description, "crashed with a dump truck." It isn't until the third reference (by which time most readers have tuned out) that the events are described as the dump truck hitting the car.

    I guess I should be happy that "Tesla" isn't in the headline. I guess that's an improvement over past media coverage.
     
  8. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    My condolences to those who knew the driver or their family. The Tesla is an amazingly safe car, but it is not immune to the laws of physics, being t-boned by a dump truck at any significant speed is pretty close to unsurvivable.

    Another sad reminder to keep our eyes open and drive defensively, especially in winter when both our, and other vehicles' stopping distances are increased.
     
  9. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Terribly sad. Unfortunately it's impossible to build a practical car strong enough to survive being t-boned by a dump truck.
     
  10. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Tesla T-Boned and driver killed in Winnipeg, Canada

    My condolences to the family. Nobody should ever have to go through this.

    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/manitoba/man-67-dies-after-car-collides-with-dump-truck-in-winnipeg-1.3375935

    Other than the stolen Tesla changed by police in California and splitting in two, is this the only fatality in the S? The prior case was an understandable one-off case given the high speed chase and the brazenness of the criminal. This is much more likely to happen to the rest of us.
     
  11. Sparktz

    Sparktz Member

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    I think I have heard of couple of other people die from driving off of cliffs (not that the Tesla was to blame).
     
  12. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Oh yeah. I remember that highway in California with the unrailed curves. As you said, speeding there and going over the side is one of those one-off cases. Thanks!
     
  13. Dbitter1

    Dbitter1 Journeyman Member

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    I disagree, until we know the exact circumstances.

    You can make a car out of a structure that just doesn't deform (e.g. less ductile than nearly anything else out there), like a Sherman tank. However, this means that on a head to head collision on something with as much mass (e.g. Tank vs fully loaded dump truck is probably pretty close) you are facing a VERY sudden deceleration- like 100G or so, which would cause concussions, etc, and kill you dead. So we add crumple zones, which try to greatly reduce that, by absorbing some of the forces; airbags to help cushion the impact of the body, etc.

    I've always respected that the battery pack is a pretty solid mass, and probably doesn't deform very much with regards to protecting the passenger space from a T-bone, where the frunk would normally save you. My interest here is what ACTUALLY happened... lets go to an extreme, and say I welded an I-beam mad-max style onto the side, and then ran said dump truck at a moderate 20MPH directly into the side. Ignore the airbags and G force for a moment... the force would unlikely deform the cabin much beyond the depth of the plow (as the plow is about a car length wide, and the I beam would hypothetically catch the entire plow , so the force would be distributed over the 18' or so of the car), and likely knock the car out of the way, eventually pushing it aside or allowing the driver to slow. Some flying glass, possibly, but tempered for minimal damage beyond surface tissue. In THIS case the G force would be the largest probable hit, and at a moderate speed, would likely be whiplash and maybe a concussion if no airbags, but probably not enough for fatality.

    Now we know that mad-max stuff is likely unlikely to be approved for public use, and isn't pretty to the majority of the populace... but it poses an interesting discussion that much like the torque on a MS blows the average ICE out of the water, we now can discuss something coming close to that with crash testing... as opposed to the average ICE, which folds like a cheap card table.

    There are a LOT of fun reasons to have a Tesla, but one of the more priceless things is the safety factor... my family doesn't have a price tag, and even if money was irrelevant, I can't think of a car I'd rather be in (or have my family in) if this kind of horror was completely inevitable.

    The computer assistance options, as we advance in science, can also help beyond that of the human response time. No blame to Tesla today, of course, but would a large dump truck NOT show up on a radar, with a collision vector to the MS? As we advance with this, with autonomous driving, we are going to be safer and safer on the road. I'm very proud to be a shareholder to a company advancing this end.

    Again, condolences that where we are today, wasn't enough, today (er, yesterday).
     
  14. RiverBrick

    RiverBrick Active Member

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  15. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Thank you to the mod who merged my thread in here. I searched for "Winnipeg crash" before creating the thread, but didn't search for "fatality" to find Kevin's.

    The result of the investigation should be interesting. In the meantime, I'll say a prayer for the family.
     
  16. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Yes, of course we don't know the exact circumstances; however, the damage to the vehicle shown in that picture is significant.

    There's an inherent limit to how much crumple zone you can put into the side of a passenger car; you can't make the sides of the car ridiculously thick. There's always much more room for crumple zones front/back. So the designers are faced with tradeoffs; the side needs to be rigid enough to prevent intrusion into the cockpit, while crumpling enough to absorb energy. That means they can't protect against all possible impacts; there will be a threshold impact level above which the crash will not be survivable. The speed required will be lower with a heavy truck, as most of the energy will be transferred into the car.

    Given the Model S crash ratings, it must be among the best cars on the road for side impact collisions. Even so, there will be worst-case collisions that it cannot protect against.
     
  17. DavidB

    DavidB Aug 2013 S85

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    #17 DavidB, Dec 22, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
    So sad. I'm so sorry for the family.

    ----

    This is actually the 5th death of a driver of a Tesla Model S that I know of. I am not aware of any passenger deaths. I am not aware of any Roadster deaths.

    - Thief, unbuckled, sliding sideways at 100+ mph into a light pole.
    - Two unrelated owners driving off cliffs. At least one of the owners was buckled in.
    - Owner, unbuckled, driving into a culvert. Possibly asleep, possibly intoxicated.
    - Owner broadsided by a dump truck.
     
  18. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    Not to take this thread off-topic, but just to provide some perspective, for those who may have missed it...

    Below is a thread started less than two weeks ago by a driver who was T-boned in a Tesla Model S at 45-50 MPH. He came away with only minor injuries, and wrote that he thought that were it not for the Model S, he may not have survived the crash. (I bolded some parts of parts of the first post.)

    What a day ....

     
  19. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    That's good. Only the last one is something really "out of the driver's control". Thanks!
     
  20. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

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    Condolences to the driver and his family. It's sad having to see this kind if news about anyone, let alone a Tesla driver.
     

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