Model S to the Nürburgring Next Week!

[D.E.]

Well, there's this:

So maybe don't be too proud of Porsche history.

That isn’t fair. The companies were in place before the Nazi regime, the companies survived, not the regime. Their country was at war. BMW, Volkswagen, all German companies supported their war effort, they had no choice in the matter, to not participate was a death sentence for those opposing. To post this inflammatory photograph 77 years later isn’t helpful at all. These people are all dead. Their children and grandchildren are not responsible for the crimes of their parents. Porsche is a company is run by descendants of the Germans of the WWII era. They had absolutely nothing to do with the people in that picture.

And if you think our country hasn’t put some absolutely shameful skeletons in our closet, you are uninformed.

This is the ultimate cheap shot. I feel your post is offensive.

 

[mattwhite]

It was never the battery cooling holding the P100DL back in any data stream I've seen - it's the heating of the drive motor rotors that forces the car to rein in the power.

The Raven has the PMSR front motor which doesn't heat up the same way, so we should expect it to get a lot further without limiting. No idea if the induction rear unit has any improvements, or the new rev E pack might.

Whether the pack cooling will now be an issue, whether it can push as hard as a P3D or a Taycan, these are open questions at the moment. But the previous biggest limitation has been cut back substantially just by the PMSR switch.

This is really helpful, thanks! Now we just need some real world track results to see how the Raven holds up.

 

[Curious George]

Elon showed up at Nürburgring without a reservation? Try that at your local service center Elon. Same result.

I suppose Elon can buy someone else's reservation at a premium in an auction, if the Model S car is ready.
Or be on the wait list. Someone calls in sick, he gets in.

A third possibility is the reservation is not under Tesla's name. That way, the race will not draw too much attention. If the result is bad, nothing will be said. If it is good, it will be announced.

 

[dark cloud]

I suppose Elon can buy someone else's reservation at a premium in an auction, if the Model S car is ready.
Or be on the wait list. Someone calls in sick, he gets in.

A third possibility is the reservation is not under Tesla's name. That way, the race will not draw too much attention. If the result is bad, nothing will be said. If it is good, it will be announced.

I was thinking the same thing. If I had a reservation and someone waved 10g’s in my face would I let them use it and come back next season? You bet.

Elon exaggerates but he is not an idiot. He wouldn’t have stated this if it wasn’t a go ( I think)

Well see.

 

[MXWing]

Elon exaggerates but he is not an idiot. He wouldn’t have stated this if it wasn’t a go ( I think)

Err not an idiot but “idiot savant”. I love the man but he’s textbook 2E.

Only frieken Elon can send a Roadster to Mars one second and then pick a no win fight with the Hero of Thailand the next.

 

[PhantomX]

I was thinking the same thing. If I had a reservation and someone waved 10g’s in my face would I let them use it and come back next season? You bet.

Elon exaggerates but he is not an idiot. He wouldn’t have stated this if it wasn’t a go ( I think)

Well see.

If the reservations are to the other OEM's, they may not be inclined to sell the spot to them. There is usually a development schedule to follow unless someone booked the Ring just for fun.

 

[seattlite2004]

Err not an idiot but “idiot savant”. I love the man but he’s textbook 2E.

Only frieken Elon can send a Roadster to Mars one second and then pick a no win fight with the Hero of Thailand the next.

 

[DCEV]

That isn’t fair. The companies were in place before the Nazi regime, the companies survived, not the regime. Their country was at war. BMW, Volkswagen, all German companies supported their war effort, they had no choice in the matter, to not participate was a death sentence for those opposing. To post this inflammatory photograph 77 years later isn’t helpful at all. These people are all dead. Their children and grandchildren are not responsible for the crimes of their parents. Porsche is a company is run by descendants of the Germans of the WWII era. They had absolutely nothing to do with the people in that picture.

And if you think our country hasn’t put some absolutely shameful skeletons in our closet, you are uninformed.

This is the ultimate cheap shot. I feel your post is offensive.

I agree completely. For anyone who wants a glimpse of what it was during that time, I highly recommend "A Higher Call: An Incredible True Story of Combat and Chivalry in the War-Torn Skies of World War II" by Adam Makos. This might just be the best nonfiction book I've ever read.

https://amzn.to/2ZIQQzG

Here's a synopsis of what the book is about -- the book goes into great detail about how fractured politics allowed someone with 44% of the vote to take over control of a country, but as the video also shows, with all the adversary, humanity survived. We should absolutely speak out against evil when we see it being perpetrated for but the decedents of those who committed evil deeds are not responsible for the atrocities of their ancesotors. God forbid we be judged about all the appalling things we've done in the past century.

I love Tesla but as Tesla fans, we should not lose sight of the fact that the Taycan is the best non Tesla EV built so far and it will compel so many people to switch to EVs. Healthy competition is great, and I feel it is better for Tesla to have competition. Let's not miss the point that Porsche has pretty much admitted that all new vehicle development will be EVs and both the Model S and Taycan are playing for the same team. Both Tesla and Porsche can win building EVs and that's a good outcome for everyone.

 

[dark cloud]

I love Tesla but as Tesla fans, we should not lose sight of the fact that the Taycan is the best non Tesla EV built so far and it will compel so many people to switch to ev’s.

I am happy for the Taycan, but not many people are able to buy a $150000 vehicle. It makes the model s look like a bargain.

 

[PhilDavid]

I am happy for the Taycan, but not many people are able to buy a $150000 vehicle. It makes the model s look like a bargain.

How soon we forget...

A loaded Model S used to cost almost around $160K just about a year ago. The first year production for the Taycan is already spoken for, so they are doing what any smart business would do, and that is to prioritize selling the highest margin product first. Remember how the initial Model 3 cost twice as much as the least expensive option available to buy now? Prices will come down.

What I'm most looking forward to with the extra competition is Tesla improving the service and customer support experience. We should never have a thread on this forum dozens of pages long about what customers have to go through to find a resolution to defective displays that turn yellow. If there was more competition, they would not try to push some BS about how screen defects are normal wear and tear.

 

[Speedr117]

Sad to say, but it's not looking good! Elon just retweeted a slow moving Model X from an earlier Tesla tweet with the following: Tesla doing laps at Nerdburgering

Elon Musk on Twitter

I know it's subtle, and maybe I'm reading too much into this, but by calling it Nerdburgering instead of Nurburgring, I think he's throwing shade on the importance of the ring. Really hoping it's just to be funny and they still do the run next week!

 

[dark cloud]

How soon we forget...

A loaded Model S used to cost almost around $160K just about a year ago.

And The fully loaded Taycan is 241500.

Porsche Taycan Starts At $150,900, Most Expensive Is $241,500

 

[PhilDavid]

And The fully loaded Taycan is 241500.

Porsche Taycan Starts At $150,900, Most Expensive Is $241,500

Good for them. Hope they sell a ton and make lots of money so they can build more EVs.

 

[kbecks13]

The front motor on the P3D is the same induction type as the S/X rear motors, but it doesn't see that.

The P3D cannot last longer than 2-3 laps (~5 minutes) without track mode. It needs the extra cooling from the AC compressor, the motor change is not enough. I say this from personal experience and over 10 track days with my Model 3.

I don't get why everyone is saying that Raven is going to be amazing just because it has the permanent magnet motor when P3D has problem without track mode (and the same motor set-up!)

 

[PhantomX]

And The fully loaded Taycan is 241500.

Porsche Taycan Starts At $150,900, Most Expensive Is $241,500

I hate to say this, but most of us are not Porsche's target customer base. Taycan is never meant to be a mainstream, everyone can have car. Just about every one of Porsche's models can easily go over $100k with some options, and a good number of their models do go over $200k once you option it right and pay the adjusted market value. Compared to 911R, GT2/3RS, and 918, the fully loaded Taycan Turbo S looks like a bargain.

 

[Saghost]

The P3D cannot last longer than 2-3 laps (~5 minutes) without track mode. It needs the extra cooling from the AC compressor, the motor change is not enough. I say this from personal experience and over 10 track days with my Model 3.

I don't get why everyone is saying that Raven is going to be amazing just because it has the permanent magnet motor when P3D has problem without track mode (and the same motor set-up!)

So the programming magic in track mode fixed this issue in the 3, but you don't think Tesla could make a similar solution in the S with new programming?

 

[JohnSnowNW]

The P3D cannot last longer than 2-3 laps (~5 minutes) without track mode. It needs the extra cooling from the AC compressor, the motor change is not enough. I say this from personal experience and over 10 track days with my Model 3.

I don't get why everyone is saying that Raven is going to be amazing just because it has the permanent magnet motor when P3D has problem without track mode (and the same motor set-up!)

I think they only need one lap on the "Ring," right?

I also don't think people are expecting the Raven to be amazing, just better than non-Raven (degree to which as yet undetermined). Is the Taycan's time particularly "amazing"...ignoring that they made up their own category to be the leader of?

 

[malcolm]

Presumably Raven provides the opportunity for a Model S Track Mode. Maybe there's a prototype battery based on Maxwell Technologies.

Should beat the 8:50 set by the M3P but needs to gain about another minute for the Porsche.

Fingers crossed for good weather etc.

 

[kbecks13]

So the programming magic in track mode fixed this issue in the 3, but you don't think Tesla could make a similar solution in the S with new programming?

It's not programming magic, it's that they have different cooling hardware in the Model 3 which allows them to make Track Mode happen. You can't add software to S for track mode since it doesn't have the enhanced cooling like the 3.

They need to eventually update the cooling hardware in the S for faster Supercharging (250 kW) so it's pretty obvious IMO that we will eventually, and maybe very soon, see a refreshed S/X that do contain this hardware and will then have track mode.

 

[kbecks13]

I think they only need one lap on the "Ring," right?

Sorry i should have been more clear, 2 laps at a track like Laguna with ~2 minute lap times. So you get maybe 5 minutes of full beans before starting to lose power. Without track mode, you will get about 30-40% power reduction when things get hot.

With track mode (AC compressor chilling the coolant loop) you can last 3-4 laps before seeing any power reduction and then that loss of power is MUCH smaller and maybe only 10% power loss.