Model S - V9 software downgrade, not what I purchased.

[SpudLime]

Can we all agree that before v10 comes out we blast the forum to folks to not update until they have read reviews??

I don’t mind usually being the trail blazer for things like this. My folks and friends don’t update their iPhones until I give them the run down after a few weeks.

 

[Silicon Desert]

Can we all agree that before v10 comes out we blast the forum to folks to not update until they have read reviews??

Man, I wish that would happen. I like Brian's post too. A man of common sense! Frankly I am ok with the way it is now or the way it was. So what is so funny to me about some of the complaints is along the lines of postings like... Where is my V9 update? Why haven't I got my V9 update...it was released over 3 minutes ago and I still don't have it (ok, I make that one up, but you get the point). I'm sitting in my car waiting for the update. I set my router on top of my car to make sure I get the update. I plugged in my charger to make sure I get the update. I'm calling the service center to get my update. It's a least a day over due. etc. etc. etc.

Now fast forward to 1 day after getting the update. Some of those people screaming they hate the update. I want the old one back. Can I get it now. How do I complain? Can we start a class action suit? Can I get my money back. Ok, yes, I made up a couple of these comments, but you get the point. Complete lack of patience with some people. Folks probably have a legitimate concern, so that's fine with me. My point is people want instant gratification of an update and when they get it, they instantly want to go back. Sorry if it sounds rude. Not intended to be. Just sitting here scratching my head and thinking how is Tesla ever going to make everyone happy. Not possible.

 

[SpudLime]

I was thinking the same thing but didn’t want to upset the natives.

 

[Silicon Desert]

I was thinking the same thing but didn’t want to upset the natives.

Uh Oh. I'm in trouble now. I'll remember to remove my license plate before hitting the next supercharger. If I mysteriously disappear, tell the cops I'm likely to be alongside Jimmy Hoffa...... where ever he was killed Not trying to upset the natives either. I guess I am just too old to care either way and find all this to be entertaining about the need for quick changes. Yes, there are legitimate complaints, but they won't get fixed before midnight I think,

 

[Brian's ReX]

Man, I wish that would happen. I like Brian's post too. A man of common sense! Frankly I am ok with the way it is now or the way it was. So what is so funny to me about some of the complaints is along the lines of postings like... Where is my V9 update? Why haven't I got my V9 update...it was released over 3 minutes ago and I still don't have it (ok, I make that one up, but you get the point). I'm sitting in my car waiting for the update. I set my router on top of my car to make sure I get the update. I plugged in my charger to make sure I get the update. I'm calling the service center to get my update. It's a least a day over due. etc. etc. etc.

Now fast forward to 1 day after getting the update. Some of those people screaming they hate the update. I want the old one back. Can I get it now. How do I complain? Can we start a class action suit? Can I get my money back. Ok, yes, I made up a couple of these comments, but you get the point. Complete lack of patience with some people. Folks probably have a legitimate concern, so that's fine with me. My point is people want instant gratification of an update and when they get it, they instantly want to go back. Sorry if it sounds rude. Not intended to be. Just sitting here scratching my head and thinking how is Tesla ever going to make everyone happy. Not possible.

Quite literally laughing out loud!

I was one of those with the router mounted on my dash, telling my wife to "just go ahead to bed without me!".

It's a sickness... this love of a dang vehicle. In my day, if the car actually started, it was a good day. To have a car this reliable, and constantly changing is beyond comprehension. I even let my account at the local car-parts store lapse! (soon, young-uns will have to Google what a car-parts store is)

I have spent far too much time playing "Lunar Lander", and sticking every landing with a perfect score - thinking somehow Elon is watching, thinking "hey, this guy is really good at this... maybe he'll want to pilot one of my SpaceX missions!"

One can dream!

 

[Silicon Desert]

Quite literally laughing out loud!
I was one of those with the router mounted on my dash, telling my wife to "just go ahead to bed without me!".
It's a sickness... this love of a dang vehicle.

Well, I can't deny I was not so patiently waiting for the update as well. Yet, I was ok with it when I got it. Sure there are things I wish were changed or better, but as you reminded me, it's a lot better than my first 1969 car with 250,000 miles on it and I prayed as I turned the key!

 

[Barry]

it's a lot better than my first 1969 car with 250,000 miles on it

You need higher standards!

For pre-AP and AP1 cars, V9 is nothing short of a disaster. Nothing is better; a lot is worse.Whoever designed/approved this UI should be fired.

 

[neroden]

Version 9 is made for a model 3 (and perhaps future S/X) single "horizontal model 3 screen".

I am very unhappy with Tesla for reducing the functionality of my console.

The Model S/X vertical screen was kind of like two monitors for your computer at home or work.
You could open the functional displays energy, audio, map, etc. and choose where to locate top or bottom or full screen.
Now there is only one universal shared "flexible window" at the very bottom of the screen. The rear camera view and all other function screens are down by the cup holders.

What is the rest of the display doing.. a map stuck as the background.... Really? Did someone forget to program a close button on the map?

This interface layout is not suitable for a vertical screen. The design is for a horizontal screen located mid dash in height. All of the menus are at the very bottom of the screen, you know farthest away from the road and where your attention should be. I am aware that Tesla has shown concepts of one horizontal screen for the future model S and X just like the model 3. Maybe this interface is perfect for that, but is terrible and perhaps dangerous for a vertical screen like the models S/X currently have.

I bought my model S with the "2 window" screen, now I have only 1, and located down by the cup holder.
How many computer monitors are on your desk? Ya know, you really only need one, you can just tab between the applications. This update effectively removed one of my monitors and replaced it with a fixed map while locking the position of the remaining monitor.

Will Tesla restore the lost functionality? I hope so, but I doubt it.

The software interface needs to be reworked for all vertical screen interfaces. The menus need to be located at the top of the display (not the bottom), and restore the 2 active screen windows, with zoom and swap like I purchased with my model S.

Tesla this is really going backward in my opinion.

Formerly a happy customer in Ohio.

(1) I'm getting an open letter about this published on CleanTechnica.
(2) Contact your service center and demand that your software will be rolled back to v8. If they don't comply, do executive escalation. Tell them it's a warranty issue.
(3) People are talking about filing lawsuits. We can demand specific performance, i.e. bring back the broken feature.

 

[neroden]

Seems unlikely we'll seem Tesla do much (if anything) to restore the V8 UI style.

Oh, they'll do it after they lose the lawsuit. It's a slam-dunk of a lawsuit, at least for people whose cars are still under warranty.

I hope it doesn't have to get to that point. It *really* shouldn't.

 

[3mp_kwh]

I received response from escalation, which acknowledged my concerns would be forwarded. The problem is that the forwarded email, which they cc'd to me, wasn't what I wrote in the escalation. To some extent, the (leftover?) staff in Utah appears to be including search-able language which is common to the complaints. For instance, I never said anything about camera-on-top, yet the message the gentlemen forwarded said:

"No Rearview Camera and Web browser at the same time.
No Rearview Camera and Energy Consumption at the same time.
No Web browser and Energy Consumption at the same time..."

None of these lines were mine, and it will suck if all Tesla does is put camera on top in Ver 9.1. As others are saying, no net gain. I think my wife's car's steering wheel heater can be left turned on, but that's sad compared to losing **full-screen** and basically having much less control over the display.

Tesla's own forums are another active thread, on this subject. Please, weigh in on Tesla's website, if you can remember your password.
V9 Feedback From Forum Members? | Tesla

 

[supratachophobia]

I received response from escalation, which acknowledged my concerns would be forwarded. The problem is that the forwarded email, which they cc'd to me, wasn't what I wrote in the escalation. To some extent, the (leftover?) staff in Utah appears to be including search-able language which is common to the complaints. For instance, I never said anything about camera-on-top, yet the message the gentlemen forwarded said:

"No Rearview Camera and Web browser at the same time.
No Rearview Camera and Energy Consumption at the same time.
No Web browser and Energy Consumption at the same time..."

None of these lines were mine, and it will suck if all Tesla does is put camera on top in Ver 9.1. As others are saying, no net gain. I think my wife's car's steering wheel heater can be left turned on, but that's sad compared to losing **full-screen** and basically having much less control over the display.

Tesla's own forums are another active thread, on this subject. Please, weigh in on Tesla's website, if you can remember your password.
V9 Feedback From Forum Members? | Tesla

This is one of those things where Tesla won't know to change things unless they actually get a large number of people saying the same thing. I would encourage everyone to stay on top of this through multiple threads, social media, TMC poles (yes, those work, that's how we got the 14-30 adapter back), executive escalation, etc.

Often times with feature requests, it's Tesla's lack of quantifiable information than it is about a lack of desire to change. Keep in mind that, still, many of the software team are not owners themselves and therefore don't see the problems as problems. I think this will doesn't change as more employees are adopted into early access testing. The more direct line of communication will help.

 

[autarch]

Tesla knows. They don't care. Isn't that clear yet? Just finished a long conversation with my wife and based on this last week, we have decided to part ways with Tesla and sell our 1 year old Model S. We called technical support twice this last week and were told they are receiving hundreds of calls from unhappy Model S and X owners. We have escalated 3 separate times. We got a phone call from executive customer care saying they are "working on something" and to "give them a week or up to a couple of months". We asked for specifics, but they wouldn't give any. They wouldn't say what they are "fixing".

Back when we bought the car there were a couple of things we didn't like, but the pros outweighed the cons. We didn't like the lack of connectivity between our android phones the giant console. No android auto, so no on screen pandora controls, no onscreen waze controls, no ability to send and receive texts through the voice system. BUT, several months before we purchased Elon had done an interview where he said Tesla was abandoning their own APK and was looking to integrate android auto and apple car play.. so we figured it was just a couple of updates away. (1 year later.. we realize it's not EVER going to happen).

My wife didn't feel comfortable driving the Tesla at first because it had some of the worst rear visibility of any car we test drove (and we test drove well over a dozen cars). She was coming from a Cadillac SUV that ate gas, but had great visibility. However, the Tesla had this unique feature of being able to have the rear view camera on at all times, right in eye line. This feature sold the car over the hybrids and other EVs we were looking at. Now, she doesn't want to drive the car anymore with that feature gone. Maybe they will address it in a future update (as they have repeatedly told us in e-mail and on the phone).. maybe they won't. However, it is 100% clear they are not properly communicating with customers or REALLY care what customers want. They have a product roadmap and it involves turning the S into a more expensive 3.

We never thought of coming to a message to look up patch notes before installing an update to the car, especially when failing to install the update would void the warranty.

I don't want to be connected to a company that cares so little about its early adopters.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

So... To all the sheep who don't care about the loss of function...I will try one last time.

The Model S/X vertical screen (V8) is (was) like two monitors for your computer at home or work. You could open the functional displays as camera, energy, audio, map, etc. and choose where to locate top or bottom or full screen. Now (V9) there is only one universal shared "window" at the very bottom of the screen. How would you feel if the 2nd monitor on you computer was now forced to always display Nicklodeon? Those who say, "I don't see a problem with it" I always keep Nicklodeon on the 2nd display, and now it's even bigger. And my computer got an upgrade!

You still had choice removed. Really - you don't care about this reduction of function? What about next year?

TESLA: The fix should not be that difficult. Restore the 2nd active screen windows, with zoom (full screen) and swap like I purchased with my model S. I don't dislike the combination menu, although more motion (clicks) are required to activate anything. I can even live with the map permanently as the background, so long as I get my 2 windows back. Oh, how about a choice of upper or lower menus, or is that asking too much?

TESLA should be adding functionality, both to self drive and the UI.. not removing it. Going the wrong direction.

Why is there no e-mail from TESLA to the Model S/X vertical screen owners? "Sorry we know we removed functionality from the interface. We do plan on restoring it shortly" Probably because they don't.

Sorry if the Sheep comment offends...

First world problems, there will be a v10,, a v11 etc...this thread cracks me up... they only sheep are the ones who fall for this thread. Wonder if some of these guys are the "consultants" that got fired?

 

[kavyboy]

First world problems, there will be a v10,, a v11 etc...this thread cracks me up... they only sheep are the ones who fall for this thread.

First world problems are still problems.
So, the sheep are the ones who express displeasure, point out problems, and try to effect change to better their condition? And those who accept whatever they are fed, quietly, hoping things get better or at least won't get worse are, what, free thinkers? I don't get it.

 

[Silicon Desert]

Tesla knows. They don't care. Isn't that clear yet? We got a phone call from executive customer care saying they are "working on something" and to "give them a week or up to a couple of months". We asked for specifics, but they wouldn't give any. They wouldn't say what they are "fixing".

This caught my attention because of experience with well over 100 companies I have worked for in the last 30 years that call me to help them fix issues or solve problems.

First to say that I am not suggesting you don't have legitimate concerns and have a real complaint.

I would not make a conclusion that Tesla doesn't care because you are upset. The reason I say that is by interfacing with them on a few things and the fact that they called you back should indicate something. If they didn't care, they wouldn't have bothered. Frankly, customer care people even at a higher level don't usually know what corporate engineers and designers are working on to correct an issue at most companies. Not unique to Tesla. I know for fact that no customer care people at any company I consult with will have any idea what I am working on to correct a problem until it is about to be introduced after being tested. Heck, sometimes I don't even know myself until I have solved it

They likely wouldn't say what they are working on because they really don't know yet. I have seen this same process at numerous companies over my career. It simply takes time to try and come up with solutions. In any innovative company, not everything is going to work the way every customer wants when a change is made. I see it is an iterative process of improvement when innovating. The process gets better over time... just not as fast as we all would like.

Best of luck on your next car. As fast as technology is changing, you might soon be on their forum with concerns about something they did on their car.

 

[kavyboy]

Tesla knows. They don't care. Isn't that clear yet? Just finished a long conversation with my wife and based on this last week, we have decided to part ways with Tesla and sell our 1 year old Model S. We called technical support twice this last week and were told they are receiving hundreds of calls from unhappy Model S and X owners. We have escalated 3 separate times. We got a phone call from executive customer care saying they are "working on something" and to "give them a week or up to a couple of months". We asked for specifics, but they wouldn't give any. They wouldn't say what they are "fixing".

Back when we bought the car there were a couple of things we didn't like, but the pros outweighed the cons. We didn't like the lack of connectivity between our android phones the giant console. No android auto, so no on screen pandora controls, no onscreen waze controls, no ability to send and receive texts through the voice system. BUT, several months before we purchased Elon had done an interview where he said Tesla was abandoning their own APK and was looking to integrate android auto and apple car play.. so we figured it was just a couple of updates away. (1 year later.. we realize it's not EVER going to happen).

My wife didn't feel comfortable driving the Tesla at first because it had some of the worst rear visibility of any car we test drove (and we test drove well over a dozen cars). She was coming from a Cadillac SUV that ate gas, but had great visibility. However, the Tesla had this unique feature of being able to have the rear view camera on at all times, right in eye line. This feature sold the car over the hybrids and other EVs we were looking at. Now, she doesn't want to drive the car anymore with that feature gone. Maybe they will address it in a future update (as they have repeatedly told us in e-mail and on the phone).. maybe they won't. However, it is 100% clear they are not properly communicating with customers or REALLY care what customers want. They have a product roadmap and it involves turning the S into a more expensive 3.

We never thought of coming to a message to look up patch notes before installing an update to the car, especially when failing to install the update would void the warranty.

I don't want to be connected to a company that cares so little about its early adopters.

I wouldn't give up on them just yet, but I do know how you feel.
Let's say for the sake or argument that they know V9 was a huge misstep, mistake, whatever. It will take time to redesign, re-code, document, and test a new version. On the human side, they have to save face publicly, diplomatically move those people responsible to other internal positions to avoid a repeat, and have lots of meetings. All that stuff takes a lot of time, and they wouldn't know now exactly what to say to you.

 

[KArnold]

All that stuff takes a lot of time, and they wouldn't know now exactly what to say to you.

All true.

But wouldn't it be nice if they had a public relations person who said something, ANYthing. Or even a tweet from Elon in his misguided timeline. Either the answer is "we've heard and we'll address these concerns in the coming weeks (or months)", or "sorry but v9 lays the groundwork for our strategy so expect more along these lines going forward". Basically any response other than the BS we are seeing so far. Exactly what is Tesla's position on these issues? I don't know.

I'd love to be hopeful with the Tesla UI, but I'm not sure I've seen or heard an official reason to be so. I seriously doubt I'll be so bothered as to sell, but I am looking more at the competition.

 

[kavyboy]

All true.

But wouldn't it be nice if they had a public relations person who said something, ANYthing. Or even a tweet from Elon in his misguided timeline. Either the answer is "we've heard and we'll address these concerns in the coming weeks (or months)", or "sorry but v9 lays the groundwork for our strategy so expect more along these lines going forward". Basically any response other than the BS we are seeing so far. Exactly what is Tesla's position on these issues? I don't know.

I'd love to be hopeful with the Tesla UI, but I'm not sure I've seen or heard an official reason to be so. I seriously doubt I'll be so bothered as to sell, but I am looking more at the competition.

Excellent points!

 

[autarch]

This caught my attention because of experience with well over 100 companies I have worked for in the last 30 years that call me to help them fix issues or solve problems.

First to say that I am not suggesting you don't have legitimate concerns and have a real complaint.

I would not make a conclusion that Tesla doesn't care because you are upset. The reason I say that is by interfacing with them on a few things and the fact that they called you back should indicate something. If they didn't care, they wouldn't have bothered. Frankly, customer care people even at a higher level don't usually know what corporate engineers and designers are working on to correct an issue at most companies. Not unique to Tesla. I know for fact that no customer care people at any company I consult with will have any idea what I am working on to correct a problem until it is about to be introduced after being tested. Heck, sometimes I don't even know myself until I have solved it

They likely wouldn't say what they are working on because they really don't know yet. I have seen this same process at numerous companies over my career. It simply takes time to try and come up with solutions. In any innovative company, not everything is going to work the way every customer wants when a change is made. I see it is an iterative process of improvement when innovating. The process gets better over time... just not as fast as we all would like.

Best of luck on your next car. As fast as technology is changing, you might soon be on their forum with concerns about something they did on their car.

The reason I can say they don't care is because Tesla has an EXTREMELY limited number of products. I didn't come to the message boards until after I downloaded version 9 (10 days after others got it, didn't know about it, didn't care). I ONLY came to the message boards to figure out what I was missing in the controls and how I get my old UI/functionality back. I saw the same complaints dating back to October 6th (it was now October 15th). A overwhelming majority of people complaining about the same set of issues. I called tech support. 90+ minutes on hold. They told me they have been receiving constant complains from Model S and model X owners and they would note my concern. They even set an appointment for me to bring the car in and get the update taken out. The service center told me they couldn't do it. I called again. 2 hours on hold this time. Same story. "Ever other call is an unhappy S or X owner complaining about Version 9. Model 3 owners seem to love it!" This means they had been receiving complaints for 9 days but STILL continued to push out the update without warning. They COULD have sent an e-mail out to model S and X owners and explained issues received with version 9 that may impact their user experience and warned people to go over the update features before installing. They COULD have stopped the rollout after getting such an immediate negative reaction. They COULD have allowed people immensely unhappy with Version 9 to take the car in and get it set back to the previous version (yes, it is 100% possible). They didn't take any of these steps.

Their call was a joke and actually made things worse, because they didn't understand the specific issue and offered no path to a solution. It was likely only made because of our deposits on model 3's (now being refunded) and the fact that we had several referrals pending on model 3's (all but one also being refunded and I asked that person to switch to someone else's referral if they can).

Tesla has 3 products. They broke 2 of them and continued breaking them even after they knew it was a large issue. I have read messages from people who actually read the boards and chose not to update, but they are being refused warranty service UNTIL they upgrade. That is not a company that cares. That is a company with a strict product roadmap and a specific vision that will get there on the backs of the people who will forgive and apologize no matter what they do.

Did anyone really want missile command over android auto and apple carplay? Would you rather have digdug or the ability to respond to texts with voice commands?

Musk spent the last 2 years promising that the model 3 would not devalue the Model S, which has been a major concern of Model S owners. Well, they just managed to do it a different way, by turning the model S INTO a model 3.

 

[autarch]

PS: Went and looked a Lexus ES350h this morning and the salesperson told me they have had a large number of Tesla owners come in this last 2 weeks looking to trade in their cars? So much so, they weren't THAT interested in my Model S, despite having under 5K miles on it. It didn't end up mattering b/c the current ES350h's don't have android auto in them yet, those models won't be in until December. But, i got to explain to them WHY Tesla owners were suddenly trading in their cars.

You see.. most people don't bother complaining. They just act. I'm not happy with this car anymore, so I'll get rid of it. They now have a 2018 100D sitting on their lot with 3K miles for UNDER 100K. They also told me about a green 2018 P100D they had just taken in earlier that day and haven't priced yet.