Model S90D Battery Degradation?

[Tony8489]

1. Build Date/Mileage: 3/2016 / 38.5K (pre-facelift)
2. Range at 100% (Standard Miles/Range Mode off): 274 vs. 294 new (6.8% degradation)
3. Daily Charge % Target: 70%
4. Supercharger use per year: 36% of my charging is at superchargers, still charges at up to 105kW at < half SoC
5. Battery Version and or Part #: 1063792-00-A

Is that part number V1 or V2?

6.8% seems normal for these cars. Is there reason to believe the degradation will continue and not stabilize?

Update: now at 43.5K miles
Range at 100% is 271-273
The key change is that max supercharge rate is now 93kW, consistent 8x at 5 different superchargers in April.

We are returning the car to Tesla under the Resale Value Guarantee in June. We plan to get a 370 mile rated range "Raven" Model S in August or September.

 

[PhaseWhite]

Update: now at 43.5K miles
Range at 100% is 271-273
The key change is that max supercharge rate is now 93kW, consistent 8x at 5 different superchargers in April.

We are returning the car to Tesla under the Resale Value Guarantee in June. We plan to get a 370 mile rated range "Raven" Model S in August or September.

I've got a March built 2017 90D with the V3 battery pack revision. So far I'm at about 16k miles and 0 degradation. It still shows 265 miles of range at 90%. The car has supercharged < 10 times.

 

[emir-t]

Had the chance to connect to my 2017 Mar build V3 pack S90D’s CANBUS. It has been exactly 2 years since it was in traffic and my remaining full pack is 80,2kWh. 2 weeks ago it was 80,6kWh. This equates to around 423-430km on 100%.

Car is at 60,000km (37,2k mi)

When I bought it exactly 6 months ago @41k km(25.5k mi) it was showing 438km and 83.2kWh. So an additional 3,5% loss in 6 months is eery. I’ve charged to 100% maybe 4-5 times.

Previous owner who bought it new was charging to 100% daily but he said he was charging at a slow current setting. He made 25,5k mi in a year and a 90D brand new should be like 85kwh @447-450km when full. So even though he was abusing the pack by often fully charging it he lost 3% in a year but I lost 3,5% more in the past 6 months? Isn’t this odd?

When you factor in the 4kWh buffer I have 76,2kwh usable and realistically I could at best maybe use 75kwh on a roadtrip. After 2 years I’m left with a 400V 75D then...

Update. Had a 1000 mile roadtrip last weekend. Made a total of 4 ChaDeMo DC charges (No superchargers in my zone and car was never Supercharged)

Down to 79,8kWh now. Which is 75,8 usable. So 100% shows 420km/260mi while closing in on 40k miles. It was showing 4,2% more when i bought it used 6 months and 15k miles ago.

 

[pattymac23]

I'm currently at 245 miles with 90% charge on my 2015 Model S 90D with 35k miles. I can live with this but i really hope it doesn't drop any further...

 

[PhaseWhite]

I've got a March built 2017 90D with the V3 battery pack revision. So far I'm at about 16k miles and 0 degradation. It still shows 265 miles of range at 90%. The car has supercharged < 10 times.

Update: After the latest set of firmware updates my Model S's range dropped slightly. It's now showing 259 miles of range at 90%, implying 288 miles range at 100%, now at 17500 miles. I'm thinking this was impacted by the BMS changes Tesla introduced to S/X after the latest fire in a China parking ramp.

Have other 90D owners noticed a sudden drop with the latest software updates?

 

[wdolson]

Update: After the latest set of firmware updates my Model S's range dropped slightly. It's now showing 259 miles of range at 90%, implying 288 miles range at 100%, now at 17500 miles. I'm thinking this was impacted by the BMS changes Tesla introduced to S/X after the latest fire in a China parking ramp.

Have other 90D owners noticed a sudden drop with the latest software updates?

My car went through the couple of days of battery testing when it updated to, I think 2019.16, but when it was done I had no change in range. I suspect what happened is Tesla discovered a failure mode for older cells that could start a fire and wrote a test for that mode. If the test finds a cell that is going that was, it disables that cell so it won't cause a fire. However, that causes a drop in range when it does.

I got lucky with the pack. The car's 90% was 268/269 when new and now it's just barely 268 at 3 years and 21,000 miles.

On another thread someone saw a drop of about 20 miles range with the update. They probably had multiple cells disabled.

 

[Viking1]

Update: After the latest set of firmware updates my Model S's range dropped slightly. It's now showing 259 miles of range at 90%, implying 288 miles range at 100%, now at 17500 miles. I'm thinking this was impacted by the BMS changes Tesla introduced to S/X after the latest fire in a China parking ramp.

Have other 90D owners noticed a sudden drop with the latest software updates?

I've not noticed any changes for the last 5k miles. I have about 17K miles with a 90% range of 255.

 

[emir-t]

I seem to be the one with the most degraaded V3 90 pack.

After 42k mi in 2 years exactly it is at 93.1%(If production day was 85,4kWh as reported) I'm reporting directly from BMS using diagnostics mode. At 79,5kWh when fully charged. After buffer 75,5kWh usable for me which is only 2-3kWh more than an 85 pack. So gap is narrowing.

Never supercharged due to where I live. Used Chademo DC chargers for approximately 4k miles. Rest is all AC. Charging to 90% daily. Previous owner for the first 24k mi charged to 100% daily and drove 200mi a day but since I got it I'm very careful about it.

 

[wdolson]

The early 100% daily is what may have degraded the pack. My pack has only been over 905 a few times.

 

[emir-t]

The early 100% daily is what may have degraded the pack. My pack has only been over 905 a few times.

Yet it wasn't as degraded when I bought it. Even though it was daily 100% in its before life it was at 96%. I never charged to 100% daily since then but it lost another 3% in 8 months/16k miles.

 

[Viking1]

Yet it wasn't as degraded when I bought it. Even though it was daily 100% in its before life it was at 96%. I never charged to 100% daily since then but it lost another 3% in 8 months/16k miles.

I was doing it wrong in the beginning. I would let the charge drop to < 10% then supercharge to around 95%, I was starting to lose 1 mile/week. So I changed my behavior. I never let it drop below 20%, and usually not below 30%. I avoided supercharging as much as possible. I did not go over 90%, with only a couple of exceptions for trips. After that I've lost only 1 mile of range. That was 2 years ago.

 

[ahkahn]

My S90D battery report. From new. Top was actually 298 miles @ 100%, and now it's at 275 @ 100% with 58,000 miles on the car. March, 2017 build date.

 

[DJRas]

View attachment 427708

My S90D battery report. From new. Top was actually 298 miles @ 100%, and now it's at 275 @ 100% with 58,000 miles on the car. March, 2017 build date.

Yours looks tobe normal degradation. The data i have seen from a thousand owners shows about 5% loss in the first year and 1-2% per year after that.
My S85 was on that same curve until tge software updates in mid May. I am now degraded to 81% of initial range (217 mile from 265) i have also determined that the Wh/mi constant that is used to calculate the rated range has changed from 295 Wh/mi for my pack to 276. That overstates the rated range further.
But Tesla insists that my battery is still not out of normal enough for warranty replacement.

 

[evalst2018]

Waiting for the hate mail...

I think the Tesla packs are really poor. My 2016 90d version 1 pack:
1. 80% charge 203 miles, real world miles 157 driving really slow, 327 watts/mi. (under delivers)
2. My 2019 egolf has a range of 125 miles, I get 150 real world miles out of it typically. (35.4 kw pack) (Over delivers)

My $100k Tesla(80% charge) and the $12k eGolf, deliver almost the same amount of real world miles. Granted they are totally different cars.

 

[Cal1]

90D 266 miles 90% since day one. Purchased Sept 2017 Only used superchargers to 90% so no idea of 100% trip charge level

 

[MP3Mike]

Waiting for the hate mail...

I think the Tesla packs are really poor. My 2016 90d version 1 pack:
1. 80% charge 203 miles, real world miles 157 driving really slow, 327 watts/mi. (under delivers)
2. My 2019 egolf has a range of 125 miles, I get 150 real world miles out of it typically. (35.4 kw pack) (Over delivers)

My $100k Tesla(80% charge) and the $12k eGolf, deliver almost the same amount of real world miles. Granted they are totally different cars.

Why are you comparing an 80% charge on your Tesla with a 100% charge on your eGolf? How will your eGolf perform once it is 3 years old?

 

[cduzz]

I just bought a used S90D (Mar 2016 pre-facelift) and it displays 250 miles at 90% and at 70mph on the highway it achieves roughly that performance. I've got the same battery generation as yours. Is it possible that there is something impacting your car's efficiency?

The car has almost 46k miles on it and I have no idea how the prior owner abused it.

My 2016 S90D was $50k (purchased "used" from tesla in 2019), a 2019 eGolf is $39k, so the S is $11k (or $19k after rebates) more than an eGolf, but of course it has AWD and comfortably takes 4 people and a megaton of cargo on trips. I also drove past 2 superchargers leav the house without "filling" it first. Also the S has 1 more year of B2B warranty (and 2 years less of powertrain warranty) than the 2019 eGolf. A 2019 S is indeed quite a bit more expensive than a 2019 eGolf.

I looked around and couldn't find a better EV than the S for my needs (normal city-traffic commuting 90% of the time and family road trip machine 10% of the time). Possibly having distinct vehicles for these 2 services would make sense?

It may be that the V1 90 packs will degrade even more; hopefully that isn't the case.

 

[evalst2018]

Why are you comparing an 80% charge on your Tesla with a 100% charge on your eGolf? How will your eGolf perform once it is 3 years old?

I have another 4 year old eGolf and have seen <3% degradation after 42k miles, charing at 13A for those 4 years. I think the 90d battery chemistry was just a mistake. The sort of degradation is not on the 85 or other packs.

 

[evalst2018]

I just bought a used S90D (Mar 2016 pre-facelift) and it displays 250 miles at 90% and at 70mph on the highway it achieves roughly that performance. I've got the same battery generation as yours. Is it possible that there is something impacting your car's efficiency?

Maybe but how do I find this out? I have taken it to Tesla 3 times, and they keep saying everything is fine. My cars has 56k miles

The car has almost 46k miles on it and I have no idea how the prior owner abused it.

My 2016 S90D was $50k (purchased "used" from tesla in 2019), a 2019 eGolf is $39k, so the S is $11k (or $19k after rebates) more than an eGolf, but of course it has AWD and comfortably takes 4 people and a megaton of cargo on trips. I also drove past 2 superchargers leav the house without "filling" it first. Also the S has 1 more year of B2B warranty (and 2 years less of powertrain warranty) than the 2019 eGolf. A 2019 S is indeed quite a bit more expensive than a 2019 eGolf.

i didnt want to compare the 2 cars, they are totally different. My point was about comparing the battery and efficiency.The egolf SE has msrp of $33k..VW is offerring 11k off, so it becomes $22k minues fed+state= 12k after rebates vs your 50k MS. And if caliornia passes the 7500 state rebate the egolf becomes $7k +ttl

I looked around and couldn't find a better EV than the S for my needs (normal city-traffic commuting 90% of the time and family road trip machine 10% of the time). Possibly having distinct vehicles for these 2 services would make sense?
Yes, that is why have a MS and and eGolf , they are totally different cars. The MS does 0-60 in 3.6s, the eGolf is 8, it is a totally different drving experince.

It may be that the V1 90 packs will degrade even more; hopefully that isn't the case.

 

[wdolson]

Waiting for the hate mail...

I think the Tesla packs are really poor. My 2016 90d version 1 pack:
1. 80% charge 203 miles, real world miles 157 driving really slow, 327 watts/mi. (under delivers)
2. My 2019 egolf has a range of 125 miles, I get 150 real world miles out of it typically. (35.4 kw pack) (Over delivers)

My $100k Tesla(80% charge) and the $12k eGolf, deliver almost the same amount of real world miles. Granted they are totally different cars.

What kind of tires are you using? Did you put regen to low? I have a 2016 S 90D too and I have colder winters that you do. My lifetime usage is 304 Wh/Mi and dropping. I now usually get less than that even in the winter (I've learned to drive more efficiently over time).