Model X Autopilot Problem - Pretty Scary

[trils0n]

Despite thinking they are, humans aren't very good at multi-tasking. The more tasks they try to engage in at once, the more their performance degrades.

I only have a few hundred miles of autopilot driving under my belt, but it was pretty clear to me I could much more effectively focus on my surroundings and increase situational awareness when I didnt have to do the additional task of making small course and speed corrections all the time.

The same goes for driving. Last time I went go-kart racing the track had events where each person got their own laps. It is easy to focus soley on driving because there is no need to look for or be aware of other drivers because there are no other drivers allowed on the track. All brain power to the task at hand, controlling the vehicle.

I guess you could use the Autopilot as an opportunity to do something else besides monitoring your surroundings, but that seems in direct conflict with the operating instructions that say you should remain alert and ready to take over.

 

[TacC]

Despite thinking they are, humans aren't very good at multi-tasking. The more tasks they try to engage in at once, the more their performance degrades.

I only have a few hundred miles of autopilot driving under my belt, but it was pretty clear to me I could much more effectively focus on my surroundings and increase situational awareness when I didnt have to do the additional task of making small course and speed corrections all the time.

The same goes for driving. Last time I went go-kart racing the track had events where each person got their own laps. It is easy to focus soley on driving because there is no need to look for or be aware of other drivers because there are no other drivers allowed on the track. All brain power to the task at hand, controlling the vehicle.

I guess you could use the Autopilot as an opportunity to do something else besides monitoring your surroundings, but that seems in direct conflict with the operating instructions that say you should remain alert and ready to take over.

Bingo.

If you're focused on the conditions around you, AP augments your ability and makes you and your riders more safe. If you're using AP to substitute for your driving, you're probably only safer than a distracted or drunk driver.

 

[SR22pilot]

It may be possible in Georgia to allow 300 ft behind the car in front of you, but if you leave that much space in CA, at least three other cars will rush in to fill the gap.

Same here but that is why there is always a crash on the connector every day. Now imagine cars automatically applying full braking. Yeah, it might be the fault of the guy behind you but you still have a wrecked car.

 

[June P]

When I use adaptive cruise control with Subaru Eyesight I don't typically set it to much higher than the speed limit, for starters. I haven't experienced a situation where the car kept speeding up and never slowed down with a car in front of me but it has at times waited until the last second to slow down. I am sure you slowed it down quickly. The car might have eventually slowed it down in time not to hit the vehicle ahead but no sense taking a risk.

I don't think Tesla should be rolling out anything less than fully tested with a "beta" version offered of safety software except with its test drivers however.

I'm going to assume the vehicle might have slowed down if you had waited but you had told it to go too fast to take a chance on waiting. It does make me think it's got to be heavily monitored as to actually keeping the space between you and the car in front of you.

I got Model X 90D in March. About two weeks later, I drove the X to Vegas with my wife and two little girls. After we got on the freeway, I started to use autopilot. The weather condition was great. I set the autopilot at the speed of 80 mph with 5 cars distance. I was very cautious with this Autopilot technology, especially my whole family was in the car, so I kept my eyes on it. It was very amazing when the car drove itself on the freeway at the very beginning, but not too long, I saw the car in front of me was slowing down, but the X continued to accelerate to 80 mph, even though it detected the front car! In the instrument panel, the front car became red and warning beeping sound alarmed, but no sign of auto braking. I immediately brake the car, and fortunately enough to avoid crashing into the front car. It all happened within seconds. My wife called Tesla customer service to report this incident a few minutes later. The service rep on the phone seemed not too surprised and told me he had a similar situation while driving his own S.

We paid $2500 to add autopilot feature, but it's Beta version. When you use beta software in your computer, your computer might crash, not a big deal, you can always restart the computer and uninstall the beta software. But, when the Autopilot is beta, and if it crashes, there is no restart button... Is it Tesla too soon to add autopilot? I think it is.

 

[walla2]

Try this: Engage Autopilot ... Now, consider your motor cortex.

I am a neurological surgeon. I disagree with your view of the attention center of the brain. It is not the motor cortex.

You may not be wrong for some people but again those that can't follow beta recommendations should not use autopilot. Those that can't focus in cruise control also should not use cruise control. Those that can't turn off the brights from blinding others shouldn't turn them on. Take some responsibility about your capabilities and incapabilities.

 

[KaiserSoze]

I am a neurological surgeon. I disagree with your view of the attention center of the brain. It is not the motor cortex.

I did not claim that. Or if I did, it wasn't my intention. Maybe the motor cortex plays some role in maintaining vigilance, but it's not the center of attention, or executive function, in my view.

I chose it because it can reasonably be assumed to be more active when driving than not, and because to override Autopilot in an emergency, you presumably have to fire it up.

As an aside, I find this article quite interesting: This Is Your Brain on Sports, in which it is claimed that experiments have shown that only 20% of motor cortex neurons used when playing sports are activated when merely watching sports. I would imagine it's similar for driving. It also mentions that, because we learn to do many tasks in a sensory-motor feedback loop, the motor cortex is linked to, and used for, for perceiving and comprehension of those tasks.

However, I don't want to get too far down this rabbit hole, because the main (albeit tenuous) support for my thesis, summarized as, "Autopilot turns (some) formerly good drivers into zombies" is empirical, not theoretical. In at least three Autopilot crashes (stalled vehicle, Montana, tractor trailer), we have seen evidence that the drivers had time to avoid their accidents, but they did not. If Autopilot were disabled any reasonable driver could have avoided these accidents. Yet they did not.

Is it random chance brought into focus by selection bias? Could be. However, I find it hard to believe that normal, unzombied drivers can miss tractor trailers crossing the road. If they do, we would see this type of accident much more frequently. I maintain that these drivers could not prevent these accidents because they were were zombified by Autopilot. They were lulled into inattention, or at least into a state where they couldn't readily regain control of the car quickly enough. They may revert to being good drivers when Autopilot is disabled, and they may be eminently responsible, and thus they may think "I can handle Autopilot" but, in reality, they can't handle the truth: that after they flip the switch, they're eventually right out of Shaun of the Dead.

 

[walla2]

Accident 1: Not paying attention, speeding, using autopilot on unapproved road.
Accident 2: Blaming Tesla for a car crash; not paying attention and cited for careless driving.
Accident 3: Not paying attention, speeding, using autopilot on an unapproved road

I only see one real similar finding from the three crashes. Autopilot doesn't cause inattention. People not paying attention kills people whether they have autopilot or not.

 

[walla2]

As an aside, I find this article quite interesting: This Is Your Brain on Sports, in which it is claimed that experiments have shown that only 20% of motor cortex neurons used when playing sports are activated when merely watching sports. I would imagine it's similar for driving.

Of course less neurons in the motor cortex would be active when not moving vs moving since neurons in the motor cortex are responsible for moving. That doesn't mean we can't pay attention when watching sports. Your argument would suggest never to run advertising during sports shows because we aren't really watching them. Your argument would suggest that humans are incapable of reading since the lack of motion would lull us into inattention.

Attention is optional but when driving any car should not be.

 

[cb32000]

If you can't pay attention, then don't turn on autopilot ever.

If you know you are unable to function as a responsible human being, then don't turn on autopilot.[/QUOTE

I am a neurological surgeon. I disagree with your view of the attention center of the brain. It is not the motor cortex.

You may not be wrong for some people but again those that can't follow beta recommendations should not use autopilot. Those that can't focus in cruise control also should not use cruise control. Those that can't turn off the brights from blinding others shouldn't turn them on. Take some responsibility about your capabilities and incapabilities.

while I agree that everyone should pay attention I do not share your position that everyone on the road will and if they don't it's their problem

If the thousands of people a day that share the road with me were you I probably would not worry but since 30k people a year die in car accidents and a great majority are due to driver errors I think "pay attention" is not going to cut it when most of the time nothing happens and a small fraction of the time a 4000 lb car crashed into someone else

 

[walla2]

Most of the time a ton of stuff is happening when you are going over 60 miles per hour.

People need to take responsibility and stop blaming others for their faults. That's what these accidents have shown people are incapable of today. As a society, we should not make excuses for people that can't follow directions or simply pay attention when they are piloting a large mass down the roads. Tesla never said they were doing anything but helping. I'm not a Tesla fanboy. I have numerous complaints about them. Personal responsibility isn't their business. It's ours.

 

[walla2]

I do not share your position that everyone on the road will and if they don't it's their problem.

That isn't my position. I'm not talking about everyone. I'm talking about the top 2% of income earners that can afford a Tesla with beta software and should know better.

 

[cb32000]

while I agree that everyone should pay attention I do not share your position that everyone on the road will and if they don't it's their problem

If the thousands of people a day that share the road with me every day were you I probably would not worry but since 30k people a year due in car accidents and a great majority are due to driver errors I think "pay attention" is not going to cut it when most of the time nothing happens and a small fraction of the time a 4000 lb car crashed into someone else

That isn't my position. I'm not talking about everyone. I'm talking about the top 2% of income earners that can afford a Tesla with beta software and should know better.

OK that makes more sense, I would suggest that Tesla does not allow anyone to activate the autopilot until they actually agree to be part of an unpaid untrained test pool that understands they will assume all liability for any defects in the autopilot software, or that tesla compensate the people as tesla contractors and tesla assumes the liability.

They better figure this out before the 35k car becomes available since the Model 3 will be available to way more people than the 2% high income, intelligent, and responsible people on the road.