Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)

[TEG]

I think I found one where the Streetview car was driving in the gore area for a while:

 

[gameon]

something is wrong with the design of HOV lane (not sure autopilot was on)

It is possible that autopilot misses bad job done by the worker. I can't imagine front part was gone. It is possible it was going at full speed at the time of impact

 

[Robert831]

Things I find distressing about that location that may contribute to the likely-hood of a crash there:

#1: Leftover signage from last year still in the road that could confuse drivers into thinking that they had to make a sudden lane change:
( Compound that with a couple of orange warning cones that ended up in the lane area ahead )
#2: Freeway widening / restructuring / rework that left seams that could possibly confuse people (and autopilot cameras) into thinking that the "gore area" was a lane:
If the car was moved to have the seam be the left edge of the lane it could end up hitting the cement wall we are concerned about.
#3: Morning commute into the Sun glare.
#4: Rare left hand exit lane confusing drivers who make a panic move to go right at the last minute (risking hitting the wall) to get back to the 101S instead of leaving to the 85.
#5: None of those "candlestick delineators" to stop people from trying to jump into that left lane to pass around someone.
(Having them would also have the added benefit of making people exit safely to the 85 instead of trying to cut across back to 101 at an unsafe moment. )
#6: Unsafe "gore area"/"not a lane" that is the approximate width of a lane, and looks a lot like a lane for some distance.
#7: Gore area which lacks chevrons to warn people to stay out.
#8: Gore area which lacks bump strips to warn people to stay out.
#9: Gore area which lacks "bots dots" on the edges to warn people to stay out.
#10: Unsafe crash cushion that has damaged warning sign and is frequently seen in an "already impacted" state not ready to absorb crash energy.

It just seems like somewhat of a recipe for disaster. I think people should consider ways to improve on any/all of these things.

I think you nailed it! Very impressive. Now how do we get modifications in place to correct the correctable deficiencies?

I just discovered there is a job title 'Highway Safety Engineer.' I'm sure they would have plenty of valuable input.

From my layperson perspective, I'm all for the chevrons, bump strips, bots dots, and candlesticks. Those things should be pretty damned cheap, especially considering what happens when they're missing.

 

[X Fan]

Also, reminder that in 2012/2013 they had piles of sand barrels instead of the smart cushion they have now.
View attachment 289059

Those were a lot more visible, and a Model S / X hitting those would have a wider area so nothing jabbing between the frame rails.
I think they stopped using those because they were more expensive to replace, and harder for workers to replace.
I wonder if the number of impacts has risen because of the lower visibility of the new barrier.

Penny wise, pound foolish.

State will ultimately pay millions from lawsuit.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Totally off topic- has anyone looked at the splitters in Bangkok? Holy crap, they are ramps that would launch you! At least some of them have a few delineators. Driving here is insane, 4 lane freeway and we are passing in the shoulder??!? I think there were actually 6 lanes of vehicles. I don’t understand how I haven’t seen a single accident here or in Taiwan. I saw a dude in a Ferrari splitting lanes...between buses...and texting!
What we have in California for extra safety for bad drivers is nuts! Basic law of speed, no one seems to understand that if you can’t stop for what you can’t see you are going too fast. Headed into he sun? Probably going too fast. Driving in fog? I see Drivers hauling ass still.
I am not implying that the X driver was at fault, it looks like a crappy incident all around. I really hope something can come of this to change something, either the process and/ or products. Really really sad.

 

[mongo]

Here is what it looks like today:
View attachment 288986

Someone collapsed that barricade warning sign and set it on top of the smart cushion rails. Is that sign just left there to open up again when the next accident happens?
Someone put one cone on each side now instead of both on the left. I wonder who is deciding the cone placements there?
The X chewed up those warning chevrons.

A level 3 barrier is just over 37 inches from outer edge to edge. The module in a 100 pack is 27 wide. Adding on 3 inches to each side, that is 33 inches. So is the hole in the front face of the yellow/black warning plate the result of the pack going through it until the sides of the barrier caught on the wide part of the pack?
Alternatively, could also be from front drive unit. Either way, it fits with the barrier missing the frame rails and cutting the vehicle apart.

 

[22522]

I think there is a lot of a agreement that the "gore area" / "gore zone" / "not a lane" / "new 101 shoulder" area ought to be much better marked as a danger zone and warn people to stay out.

View attachment 289051

If they aren't willing to put a row of plastic poles ("candlestick delineators") in there, some other options are possible...

This shows some ideas:
View attachment 289053
The wall could have a reflective warning sign above the smart cushion to make it clear that there was a wall there even if the smart cushion label was damaged.
The wall could have a monitoring camera looking at the smart cushion like CALTRANS has looking at some other smart cushions elsewhere in the state so they could monitor if it has been impacted.
The gore zone could have painted chevron patterns.
The solid white lines trying to keep you out of the gore zone could have "bots dots" or reflectors to make it more clear that it is a danger zone, not a lane.
The gore zone could have some texture so you hear / feel it if you got in there.

Another thing you might add is some height to a radar reflective sign on the front of gore points. As tall as a bus or truck. Break away base.

 

[scaesare]

Also, by the way, in this photo from the video here:
Crash involving Tesla on Hwy 101 in Mountain View
You can see a bunch of Model X front end components (I think perhaps gear box, half shafts, etc) jammed up against the "smart cushion":
View attachment 288861

I wonder if the "smart cushion" is so narrow that the Model X crash beams straddle either side and so it may have "punched a hole right in the middle" of the X crash structure?

View attachment 288862

I think those barrier tests tend to have a wider obstacle that hits the crumple structures closer to the tires.

Could be.

However that front black "bumper" cross member is one of the high-strength boron-steel components in the vehicle designed to transfer the load of frontal center impacts to the frame-rails. There are a variety of likely scenarios were even narrower objects (light post, tree, telephone pole, etc...) would be expected in a frontal collision.

It may have just been that the physical forces overwhelmed the structure as a result of speed.

 

[tpoltron]

However that front black "bumper" cross member is one of the high-strength boron-steel components in the vehicle....It may have just been that the physical forces overwhelmed the structure as a result of speed.

And if the MX really did somersault over the barrier while the drive unit was stuck in it, the front end would have been pulled off - where it would have been designed to be much stronger in compression.

 

[mongo]

And if the MX really did somersault over the barrier while the drive unit was stuck in it, the front end would have been pulled off - where it would have been design to be much stronger in compression.

Good point, that would help explain the missing front end.

 

[kevinof]

yes. That was puzzling me - if it hit head on you would expect crushing but it's just be taken clear off. Any chance it hit side on (as in slide/skid?)

 

[jsmay311]

Sorry if I missed this in one of the previous 300+ posts, but does anyone know if Tesla will be able to recover "black box" data about what was going on (possibly with Autopilot) immediately prior to the crash?

Or was that data likely destroyed in the crash/fire?

 

[mongo]

Just looked at structure of the barrier and some test videos. In all the crashes, the barrier appears to push through bumper (couple zone) and doesn't stop till it hits the engine block.
With the design of the Tesla, the pack may have been the stopping point with the barrier sides a foot or more through the structure.

Front end pictures from the crash show the middle of the front of the pack took an impact. So perhaps it was an offset hit with the side of the barrier going up the middle of the car? Then car went to the right and was hit which pushed it back to the concrete barrier? That might explain the pile of front end pieces in the other lane and the other damaged car. The pic in #134 may show a trail of blue coolant that makes a sharp left turn into the concrete (could also be due to a partially attached front wheel)

Could titanium bar/ pack act as a skid to let the car ride up over the barrier?

 

[timvracer]

The cynic in me says the answer to that is dependent upon what the data might indicate.

Sorry if I missed this in one of the previous 300+ posts, but does anyone know if Tesla will be able to recover "black box" data about what was going on (possibly with Autopilot) immediately prior to the crash?

Or was that data likely destroyed in the crash/fire?

 

[tpoltron]

With the design of the Tesla, the pack may have been the stopping point

Which is very low so could explain how the car reportedly somersaulted over the barrier.

 

[SMAlset]

Sorry if I missed this in one of the previous 300+ posts, but does anyone know if Tesla will be able to recover "black box" data about what was going on (possibly with Autopilot) immediately prior to the crash?

Or was that data likely destroyed in the crash/fire?

I asked a question about Direct-to-module EDR retrevial back here in the thread, bringing up Tesla's EDR kit that recently came out this month. Don't want to repeat what I wrote there (so please check out the link) but that method uses a location in the Model X (and Model 3) that if the fire didn't spread there and damage the components (fire definitely burned above it but the hottest fire seemed confined to the front most battery section) I thought could yield some useful info. We do know from the eyewitness photos/video he took after pulling the guy out that the airbags did deploy around the car. Maybe I should have asked @wk057 what his opinion was of this, guessing maybe he hasn't been following this thread but I know he's done data retrieval.

 

[mongo]

I asked a question about Direct-to-module EDR retrevial back here in the thread, bringing up Tesla's EDR kit that recently came out this month. Don't want to repeat what I wrote there (so please check out the link) but that method uses a location in the Model X (and Model 3) that if the fire didn't spread there and damage the components (fire definitely burned above it but the hottest fire seemed confined to the front most battery section) I thought could yield some useful info. We do know from the eyewitness photos/video he took after pulling the guy out that the airbags did deploy around the car. Maybe I should have asked @wk057 what his opinion was of this, guessing maybe he hasn't been following this thread but I know he's done data retrieval.

I think the airbag module is located under the center stack of the dash assembly. That places it right around the area of the exposed battery module in the front crash picture. Possibly it was ripped out in the impact that separated the pile of parts in the other lane.

 

[cbdream99]

Front end pictures from the crash show the middle of the front of the pack took an impact. So perhaps it was an offset hit with the side of the barrier going up the middle of the car? Then car went to the right and was hit which pushed it back to the concrete barrier?

I think it is possible, when it hits the barrier offside with such a massive force, front ends part split and the X could have lifted and landed/spinned then eventually stopped by the barrier. The mazda could have hit it or the X/debris hit the mazda left front.

Poor markings and point of no return lane change like this always make the road accident prone. I remembered in last couple of years when I35 expansion in north dallas, lanes are always twisted and narrowed during construction, some with no markings, some with old markings that actually leads to concrete barrier and nearly everyday there was delay due to accident.

 

[SMAlset]

Just looked at structure of the barrier and some test videos. In all the crashes, the barrier appears to push through bumper (couple zone) and doesn't stop till it hits the engine block.
With the design of the Tesla, the pack may have been the stopping point with the barrier sides a foot or more through the structure.

Front end pictures from the crash show the middle of the front of the pack took an impact. So perhaps it was an offset hit with the side of the barrier going up the middle of the car? Then car went to the right and was hit which pushed it back to the concrete barrier? That might explain the pile of front end pieces in the other lane and the other damaged car. The pic in #134 may show a trail of blue coolant that makes a sharp left turn into the concrete (could also be due to a partially attached front wheel)

Could titanium bar/ pack act as a skid to let the car ride up over the barrier?

If the barrier was already collapsed onto itself from never having been reset (as evidenced in our TMC member's dashcam video from around an hour or so before he crashed) then the car in my mind impacted coming to a dead stop so suddenly the forward momentum of the car (and weight) sent the rear of the car up and over the wall (ie. the flipping we heard described) and landing the car eventually on it's wheels in an upright position minus the front end. Does that make sense?

Because of the design and how severe the hit was the battery pack was damaged and started the fire.

With more and more EV cars being designed for larger battery packs and all likely following Teslas path by lining them on the bottom of the car for stability, I think this accident should signal a design change to barriers like this and possibly cars, although to get the range car buyers want and with current battery technology the placement of battery packs would be extremely limited I would think.

 

[SMAlset]

I think the airbag module is located under the center stack of the dash assembly. That places it right around the area of the exposed battery module in the front crash picture. Possibly it was ripped out in the impact that separated the pile of parts in the other lane.

No it's not if you read the link. In the X and 3 it's under the passenger side seat at the center console. From early photos you can see the seat coverings burnt off and the console a melted mess. Question I would have with just that little bit of info about the location is is it protected from heat/water and could info still be retrieved?

Too bad the local responding fire department hadn't been educated in advance of how to handle battery fires. Find this kind of shocking given how many EVs are on the road in this area and with Tesla really just down the road. From what I understand the fire department wasn't sure what to do so basically called Tesla and let it burn in the meantime. Maybe some of our members who were driving past in the other direction or on an overhead ramp to the side and saw it on fire can say what they saw. I know Tesla recommends lots and lots of water on it. While some later photos after the car's fire was extinguished show water on the ground we also see some type of white foam.