Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)

[22522]

If it behaved as stated, the driver needs to treat it like a horse. Don't let it do that. Pay extra attention right there.

 

[brkaus]

It's great that Autopilot is flawless for you, but for me, it is still beta--Enhanced Autopilot AP2 firmware version 8.1 (2018.10.4 8bbbdc66).

I never said it was perfect. I said it has never crossed a solid white line for me.

I ALWAYS have my hand firmly on the wheel. I use it daily. At least on my regular route, I know where it fails and hold the wheel even more firmly or disengage / re-engage after the place. Call it beta, call it driver assist, etc. I find it useful but I manage it carefully.

 

[arcus]

Assuming the family understood the area he was talking about, I'd have to also assume that AP was not engaged because of previous problems.

There's an update to the article - Tesla's statement says that the complains were related to Navigation system, but they cannot find any evidence about the Autopilot related claims:
Report: Apple engineer who died in Tesla crash had warned about autopilot errors

Way too much grasping for straws in my opinion, we all need to wait and see what the conclusion from the investigation might be.

I do agree that someone complaining about Autopilot acting up in this spot would take extra precaution.

 

[smartypnz]

Ok,, late to the discussion.
I drive this section quite often - not in my Tesla. It is inherently confusing. On approach, the left two lanes are HOV. Fine for a few miles - but the left HOV lane exits to 85. Every trip I have taken, there is at least one car making that last second decision to switch lanes. When heading south after passing Shoreline, I always swing over to the third lane (from left and out of HOV) and slow slightly to avoid the probable mistake by some other driver. It is inevitable. Someone from left HOV swings over causing someone from right HOV to swerve and.....
So, possibility that Tesla (on or off AP) may have swerved to avoid a car making last second adjustment? Barrier not being functional (probably due to previous accident) was useless. Cars following to close to emergency stop made it worse.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Ok,, late to the discussion.
I drive this section quite often - not in my Tesla. It is inherently confusing. On approach, the left two lanes are HOV. Fine for a few miles - but the left HOV lane exits to 85. Every trip I have taken, there is at least one car making that last second decision to switch lanes. When heading south after passing Shoreline, I always swing over to the third lane (from left and out of HOV) and slow slightly to avoid the probable mistake by some other driver. It is inevitable. Someone from left HOV swings over causing someone from right HOV to swerve and.....
So, possibility that Tesla (on or off AP) may have swerved to avoid a car making last second adjustment? Barrier not being functional (probably due to previous accident) was useless. Cars following to close to emergency stop made it worse.

Tesla should set up a camera to record a days worth of swerving and use it as evidence showing people how dangerous that place is.

 

[mongo]

Ok,, late to the discussion.
I drive this section quite often - not in my Tesla. It is inherently confusing. On approach, the left two lanes are HOV. Fine for a few miles - but the left HOV lane exits to 85. Every trip I have taken, there is at least one car making that last second decision to switch lanes. When heading south after passing Shoreline, I always swing over to the third lane (from left and out of HOV) and slow slightly to avoid the probable mistake by some other driver. It is inevitable. Someone from left HOV swings over causing someone from right HOV to swerve and.....
So, possibility that Tesla (on or off AP) may have swerved to avoid a car making last second adjustment? Barrier not being functional (probably due to previous accident) was useless. Cars following to close to emergency stop made it worse.

While plausible, none of that was in the initial CHP report.

 

[Sonic_78]

Where there no eye witnesses accounts? Whether the car drove straight into the barricade, was pushed into it, swerved uncontrollably into it, I’d hazard to say a dozen at least saw this unfold.

 

[bonnie]

Where there no eye witnesses accounts? Whether the car drove straight into the barricade, was pushed into it, swerved uncontrollably into it, I’d hazard to say a dozen at least saw this unfold.

I'm sure there are eyewitnesses that have given statements to CHP and other authorities. They just haven't given media interviews.

 

[DOCAL]

Way too much grasping for straws in my opinion, we all need to wait and see what the conclusion from the investigation might be.

Absolutely this.

Hopefully the NTSB preliminary report won't take too long to be written/released. Then we'll have some solid facts to talk about.

 

[mongo]

Where there no eye witnesses accounts? Whether the car drove straight into the barricade, was pushed into it, swerved uncontrollably into it, I’d hazard to say a dozen at least saw this unfold.

Post #134 has link to news report

I need to clarify/ correct an earlier post of mine. That linked article says:

According to the California Highway Patrol, a blue Tesla Model X was driving southbound on US-101 and state Highway 85 junction at freeway speeds when the driver lost control and ran into a median barrier causing the car caught fire. The Tesla was then hit by a white Mazda as it landed on a lane and then hit by a gray Audi in the next lane. A total of three vehicles were involved.

However, the embedded tweet from @CHP_RedwoodCIty said:

Update on collision on US-101southbound at SR-85
Blue Tesla driving southbound on US-10, driving at freeway speeds on the gore point dividing the SR-85 carpool flyover and the carpool lane on US-101 southbound collided with the attenuator barrier and caught fire

So, now I'm not sure if the news had more/ updated info than the tweet, or altered the raw data.

 

[mrolsky]

You know @privater, looking at this frame from your 2-week old footage it looks to me like the barrier was compressed back then, maybe never repaired before this accident. Sort of looks like you can see the metal track exposed that it is suppose to slide on on impact. What do you think?

View attachment 288756

Compare to TEG's posts about the barrier:
Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)
Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)

From the KTVU Fox livestream broadcast today:
View attachment 288758

it has been confirmed that this had not be reset the day before the accident and the previous accident had been on march 11 - you can see more about this about midway down on this link Tesla modules retrieved by NTSB could reveal clues on fatal Model X crash

 

[jeffro01]

So, now we have this: I-TEAM EXCLUSIVE: Victim who died in Tesla crash had complained about auto-pilotFriends and family are mourning the death of Apple engineer Walter Huang after he crashed in his Tesla in Mountain View Friday.

I call BS... There is no limit to how low people will go when they sense a payday...

As is the case with the other replies... If he claims this has happened before, then WHY would he continue to try it? Again... Just FUD...

Jeff

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I don't like how the official Tesla blog and other stories now mention that the attenuator was missing. It was collapsed. Missing means something else entirely.

 

[Icer]

"The Tesla was then hit by a white Mazda as it landed on a lane and then hit by a gray Audi in the next lane. A total of three vehicles were involved.'

I initially thought this story explained the odd collected pile of bits in the early shot.
The safety people added things stuff after, but it was already there.

The pile of bits must mark the spot where the front of the X landed/ stopped?
Before it was bumped to the wall by the Mazda.
Or the pile formed as a result of the hit.




.

 

[LMNOP]

So, now I'm not sure if the news had more/ updated info than the tweet, or altered the raw data.

Good observation, @mongo. The original CHP tweet stating "driving at freeway speeds on the gore point dividing the SR-85 carpool flyover and the carpool lane on US-101 southbound collided with the attenuator barrier and caught fire" seems to indicate that they initially believed that the vehicle was driving in the gore point before colliding with the barrier. Whether it was AP or driver error that caused the vehicle to be in that non-lane, we don't know for sure. But based on this info, the front-end damage severity, and the trajectory of the wreckage I strongly believe that the car was not swerving or making avoidance maneuvers before impact.

The media tends to embellish things. I would not be surprised at all if the "driver lost control" statement was added by a reporter or news editor. Isn't that what they always say when a car collides with a stationary object?

I mentioned in a previous post that Walter (the driver) was a personal friend of mine. Now that it's out in the media about his prior complaints about AP, I feel comfortable sharing that I heard the same thing from a friends. Apparently he discussed with his wife and at least one other close friend as recently as the week prior to the accident that AP was drifting left at this exact particular junction on previous commutes at around the same time of day. I learned of this allegation a day prior to the I-TEAM news story. Frightening.

It's definitely shocking to me if he did indeed experience this issue with AP, why he would continue to rely on it here. I can only assume he was distracted or otherwise not paying close enough attention. This whole thing is very tragic.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Um... No. Not even close. Nice try though. I say again, there is NO WAY AP drove that Model X into that wall/barrier/whatever. It's simply not how AP behaves/acts/programmed to function.

Jeff

Even if AP was aiming for the divider you are not supposed to let it continue until impact. I’m guessing the people that are looking to blame AP don’t have and use AP.

The driver could easily have been going 90 or more miles an hour. I just drove down through California and have been amazed by people’s total disregard for for the speed limit. It’s as if the CHP is on strike. At times I’ve been going 80 in a 65 and still getting passed left and right.

 

[SMAlset]

....I think you need to go and take your driving test.

If it was only a single white line, it's a mistake of Tesla. But you can clearly see that it is a single white line with on your side the broken white line. So you're Tesla is doing it correctly and is allowed to change lanes.

So please try it again on a place you have only a single continuous line.

BTW it should be noted that this diagram above is from The Driver's Handbook from South Australia, not California where this accident happened and some of the driving videos crossing solid white lines occur. My Licence - The Driver's Handbook - Driving on the road

Always want to follow the rules of the road for where you are driving. California Rules of the Road make no particular distinction for a solid white line other than to say it divides roadways traveling in the same direction. See my post and link here: Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA) and this is from a web traffic school course on road markings pertinent to crossing white lines in California:

"A single solid white line is intended to discourage, but not prohibit you from changing lanes. Although in some states crossing a single solid white line is illegal, it is legal to do so in California, unless the solid white line designates a turn." Section 3.4 Signs, Signals, and Roadway Markings

 

[mkspeedr]

It's definitely shocking to me if he did indeed experience this issue with AP, why he would continue to rely on it here. I can only assume he was distracted or otherwise not paying close enough attention. This whole thing is very tragic.[/QUOTE]

This whole story is getting more and more confusing.

Why he would continue to use something that put his life at risk repeatedly makes no sense - in my opinion stupid.
Why would he be in the 85 HOV exit lane if he needs the south bound 101 HOV lane? (Ok, not proven but it appears to me that way).

 

[X Fan]

Anytime there is a loss of life, particularly with someone so young/with a young family it's tragic that he was lost. There are lessons for all of us in these 41 pages of discussion. May we all learn from it.

FWIW: I don't drive in large metropolitan areas with multiple, high speed lanes with dangerous drivers as much anymore but....
when I do venture in those situations I use 7 setting for distance, keep hands on wheel while on AP and are actively looking for blind spot & aggressive drivers (ie the ones described in this OP cutting in and out to gain "precious" seconds). Also, in difficult sun situations on concrete I am much more careful.

Unfortunately, that's the state of driving in America today (including attorneys that work the system post accident to paint a picture that may not be accurate).

 

[Az_Rael]

I just drove down through California and have been amazed by people’s total disregard for for the speed limit. It’s as if the CHP is on strike.

It is even better when people argue that you HAVE to drive that fast because it is SAFER. Otherwise you will just get run over! An argument I have seen here as well as had with my coworkers (all CA drivers, obviously).