Model X Falcon Doors

[ckessel]

The MX door is already open but invisible because it is in the air and you might not see it.

Invisible? That's a serious level of hyperbole.

And, you continue to ignore multiple points. Particularly the fact that hatch backs already pose the same problem and we don't have piles of dead and decapitated cyclists.

Edit: Aw, screw it, I'm arguing with a crazy person. On the block list you go.

 

[Teo]

The doors can open independently and they can open both. I would expect the key fob to have a single button for both doors.

 

[eepic]

I'm talking about an accident where the cyclist rides towards a MX with the door open and doesn't see the door either he doesn't look up or the colour of the car and the sunlight make is less visible or for some other reason he is completely unaware some sharp blade will hit his head.

What if a cyclist doesn't look up or the colour of the car and the sunlight make a moving vehicle less visible or for some other reason is completely unaware he is about to collide with a moving vehicle and get crushed?

The car door does not need to be optimized by a very minority number of accidents like this, otherwise NO cars on the road should have any doors, lest they hit a cyclist. If you're cycling, you should understand the risks of sharing a road with large heavy vehicles and act diligently.

 

[Electroman]

There may be some merit to Teo's arguments:

- A car door when open is very very visible, because the visible surface area is very high. Not in the case of these falcon doors

- a hatch back door when fully open, poses similar risks, though I would think it would jut-out a bit less than Model X falcon doors. But again those hatchback doors are disproportionately used less number times than a passenger back door

- In my minivan I often end up opening the wrong back door remotely from the key or from the drivers panel. No big deal in a Minivan. But in the Model X that might come right in the way of passing traffic or pedestrians or cyclists. So you pull to the right on the curb and want to let your kid out, and instead end up opening the door (remotely from the driver's panel) on the left which has traffic.

I am not saying these are grave concerns. But something to keep in mind.

 

[JRP3]

Statistics will show that kids are more likely to injure their hands in a MX door than a regular car door.

So now you can see into the future. How about the fact that the powered MX doors can't be slammed shut on someone's hand, the way a regular door can? Did you put that into your statistical model?

 

[ckessel]

- a hatch back door when fully open, poses similar risks, though I would think it would jut-out a bit less than Model X falcon doors.

Hatch backs stick out far more, not less. A minivan hatch back sticks out a good 3-4 feet. The Model X doors stick out perhaps 1.5-2 feet, judging by the images.

Remember, it's been stated many times that if you can stand between two cars then the X doors have room to move up. They're supposed to stick out beyond the car very little when open.

 

[Kevin Harney]

I say we let Darwin take care of the cyclist that can be decapitated by a door that only sticks out a foot or two and we stop feeding the troll ......

 

[MartinAustin]

One would think we are at the mercy of engineering design, and cannot affect our own future.

If I became the owner of a Model X, I would be certain to make sure that no-one gets trapped by closing side doors, or assaulted by opening side doors. Because it would be my responsibility - same as it is now with my current car.

 

[bonnie]

This is a refreshing change from 'snow will fall on passengers', 'we will be trapped inside in event of a rollover', 'doors will never open in my garage', 'I can't easily put things on top & destroy range', 'will I be able to tow', and whatever else I'm missing. I really didn't predict that we'd get to decapitated cyclists and fingerless children.

Bravo!

 

[Teo]

Here is a picture demonstrating the danger for cyclists. The door would stick out to the cyclist path. Tesla has no way of knowing how these cyclist paths are in every country. Obviously they designed something with road conditions familiar to them but the car will be used everywhere. Therefore when creating something new, something that was never done before in a family car, things like this cycle path would need to be considered. If the MX was parked here the driver might be in the car fitting a baby chair on the passenger side, leaving both doors open for minutes, not realizing or ignoring the danger it causes for cyclists. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable if I knew choices I made have increased safety risks to others. Obviously some of you approach life differently. I wonder how well you will feel after the first few cyclist accidents hit the news involving MX doors? You can continue supporting it then.

 

[bonnie]

Here is a picture demonstrating the danger for cyclists. The door would stick out to the cyclist path. Tesla has no way of knowing how these cyclist paths are in every country. Obviously they designed something with road conditions familiar to them but the car will be used everywhere. Therefore when creating something new, something that was never done before in a family car, things like this cycle path would need to be considered. If the MX was parked here the driver might be in the car fitting a baby chair on the passenger side, leaving both doors open for minutes, not realizing or ignoring the danger it causes for cyclists. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable if I knew choices I made have increased safety risks to others. Obviously some of you approach life differently. I wonder how well you will feel after the first few cyclist accidents hit the news involving MX doors? You can continue supporting it then.

A bit inflammatory, Teo. People feel you're overstating the risks. If you back down on the risk then it negates the conclusion you're drawing. Since, for instance, there are not reports of children losing fingers with the Model S hatchback closing (and obviously there would be, since the child seats are back there), it appears Tesla has already dealt with that. Cyclists are also required to wear helmets, by law, in the majority of states in the U.S. I'd wear mine anyway - personal responsibility for my own safety. So by ignoring obvious facts and going straight to the most egregious conclusion, you do tend to lose credibility.

Can we go back to talking about snowy climes now?

 

[bollar]

Actually *no* US State requires adults to wear bicycle helmets.

As a daily cyclist myself, I don't see the Falcon Wing doors as more of a danger than other doors, and I wish we would get back to worrying how to clean coffee from beige seats.

 

[ecarfan]

Teo the photo you posted of the bike lane only emphasizes how dangerous all existing car doors are since when fully open they completely block the bike lane. In contrast, the Model X Falcon door when open is completely out of the way of any cyclist, and even while opening barely intrude into the bike lane and then only for a very brief period of time. See the graphic of the Falcon doors at Model X | Tesla Motors it's obvious from that graphic that when the Falcon doors are open there is no way a cyclist could hit them. They are clearly safer for cyclists than conventional doors.

 

[santana338]

As a cyclist I can tell you I am far more concerned with people opening their front doors than with the falcon door.

Why Door Zone Cycle Lanes are Dangerous - YouTube

 

[Kevin Harney]

Actually *no* US State requires adults to wear bicycle helmets.

As a daily cyclist myself, I don't see the Falcon Wing doors as more of a danger than other doors, and I wish we would get back to worrying how to clean coffee from beige seats.

Well I know that to be false as you can get a ticket here in VA if you are caught without a helmet.

 

[bollar]

Well I know that to be false as you can get a ticket here in VA if you are caught without a helmet.

I'm sure you're correct, but that's not what Virginia DOT says: Bicycling and Walking in Virginia

 

[Teo]

In contrast, the Model X Falcon door when open is completely out of the way of any cyclist.

In reply #591 I measured and wrote my height on my bicycle. I'm 5'11" but on my hybrid bicycle I'm 6'5" when I ride upright. Therefore the door won't be out of the way. It will be just at the right height to hit a tall cyclists head with the sharp blade side of the frame that sticks out the most. There is a good chance it might hit somewhere between your eye and the top of your head.

Existing car doors are not deadly. I have hit a few in my lifetime including a lorry door that was high from the ground. I have been cycling for over 30 years. The MX door is just a completely different animal. The impact surface is very small. Also because the car looks like any other regular car, in a cyclists mind the doors are not expected to be there where they are. Therefore especially if it's a little dark cyclists wouldn't see them. I hope they will put some lights on it. Tesla tends to do fix things after the fact but you don't have to be a psychic to see that these doors are a safety risk for cyclists.

Another interesting thing to consider is that the risk is not only to some foreign cyclist you don't know. Somebody you know could be injured. Therefore even if somebody is selfish and doesn't care about risks to others, it might be your own relatives who might be cycling around a parked car.

 

[bonnie]

Actually *no* US State requires adults to wear bicycle helmets.

As a daily cyclist myself, I don't see the Falcon Wing doors as more of a danger than other doors, and I wish we would get back to worrying how to clean coffee from beige seats.

http://www.helmets.org/mandator.htm

Some jurisdictions do. And a very large number specify age groups.

- - - Updated - - -

Therefore even if somebody is selfish and doesn't care about risks to others, it might be your own relatives who might be cycling around a parked car.

Okay, stop. Calling people selfish because they don't agree with you is over the line.

 

[dh73]

This is a refreshing change from 'snow will fall on passengers', 'we will be trapped inside in event of a rollover', 'doors will never open in my garage', 'I can't easily put things on top & destroy range', 'will I be able to tow', and whatever else I'm missing. I really didn't predict that we'd get to decapitated cyclists and fingerless children.

Bravo!

Yeah, I don't think those are major concerns (I don't think they stick out far enough when fully open to be a cycling problem, and I am a cyclist). Of all those listed..."put things on top & destroy range" is the one that they have to have an answer for. You can't sell an SUV that can't carry stuff on top. That's even a minivan requirements. Well, you can try to do it I guess, but I can't buy one of them. I'm holding out hope, but don't see how you can carry paddleboards, gliders, etc. The effect on range doesn't matter to me, unless the total range drops below about 180 miles (the max of the likely recreational round trip and the distance between super chargers from the bay area to Tahoe, with a large cushion).

 

[ecarfan]

In reply #591 I measured and wrote my height on my bicycle. I'm 5'11" but on my hybrid bicycle I'm 6'5" when I ride upright. Therefore the door won't be out of the way. It will be just at the right height to hit a tall cyclists head with the sharp blade side of the frame that sticks out the most. There is a good chance it might hit somewhere between your eye and the top of your head.

With the Falcon doors fully open as shown on the Tesla Motors website there is no way you could ride your bike close enough to the Model X to hit the lower edge of the door because it is only a few inches out from the side of the car! You would hit the corner of the car first with your handle bar or shoulder or knee before you would hit the lower edge of the door with your head.