Model X has single 72A charger

[dirkhh]

60A (read 15kW) was confirmed to me. I did also think that would slow down destination charging but the majority of S owners I know have single 10kW chargers anyway so I'd always be faster than them; in addition Model X should encourage more EV owners which in turn will encourage more destination charging.

BTW, I asked today if my existing HPWC would be fine for use on Model X and received an affirmative reply.

No doubt. The HPWC is willing to offer as much as 80A, the car, after connecting to the HPWC, asks for 60A, the HPWC ramps up to 60A and everyone is happy.
And people who have a NEMA 14-50 continue to charge at 40A.
The only people disappointed will be the ones who had two chargers in their Model S. But then again, my guess is that we'll learn soon that
a) Supercharging power is going up for Model X (my guess is max 150kW with 50kW for the second car charging)
b) When two Model S share one of the new Superchargers, they still get more or less the maximum power (unless they are both fairly empty and start charging at the same time)
c) Model S shipped after the 39th of Mashíyyat (look it up) will also have the single 60A charger and there will be no option to add a second charger at the service center

 

[Canuck]

c) Model S shipped after the 39th of Mashíyyat (look it up) will also have the single 60A charger...

That's a new word to me so I looked it up and it said this:

"The root of the word MASHIYYAT (مشیت) is sh-y-‘a. It is usually rendered as “wishing, willing or desiring”. Example: Many people are mashíyyating that Tesla will release the autopilot software."

Got it now.

I wasn't suggesting that HPWCs were going to remain rare - Tesla is certainly trying to roll them out as destination chargers in lots of places. But how many of those are set to allow only 60A? I expect/assume that the majority are set to 80A...

That's my point - from purely the car's perspective, the original 40/80 combo made the most sense - 40A is the most you can take from any standard outlet, and 80A is the most you can get from any J1772 compliant charger.

Got it now too and I agree. Sorry I misunderstood the point in your prior post.

 

[de704]

Single 60A onboard charger was confirmed to me verbally. No other details.

You may be right but until I see it from Tesla it doesn't count. It's stupid to slow MAX charging rates down. IMHO.

 

[WarpedOne]

Even when average charging increases?

What is stupid is not offering a dual charger option, not even in service centers. Chargers will still support parallel charging because of SC usage.
Price it such that it wont too time consuming and voila 120A charging option. Except there is no 120A HPWCs around. So bring those out too. And replace existing units...

 

[FlasherZ]

Even when average charging increases?

What is stupid is not offering a dual charger option, not even in service centers. Chargers will still support parallel charging because of SC usage.
Price it such that it wont too time consuming and voila 120A charging option. Except there is no 120A HPWCs around. So bring those out too. And replace existing units...

I don't consider it stupid at all. It's a business decision. The greater majority of people were happy with single charger / overnight charging now that we have supercharging (there are some exceptions). For that majority, possible charging rates just increased by 50%. For those who did take dual chargers, it's a net decrease, but Tesla is being told that charging at 80A is rarely needed. Overall, the simplicity of having a single charger (no dealing with load balancing and signaling between chargers, etc.) should reduce costs, eliminate some service headaches, etc., and even in this forum you hear many members with dual chargers saying they cut their charge rates to 56A to cut the amount of heat dissipation in half.

 

[qwk]

I bet that with this change, the UMC goes away, and cars will ship with an HPWC(maybe at an additional cost). Since Tesla has had a ton of problems with the UMC/HPWC at max rated capability(I'm on UMC #9), the cheapest option is to cripple charging. Not a surprise at all...

 

[scaesare]

I bet that with this change, the UMC goes away, and cars will ship with an HPWC(maybe at an additional cost). Since Tesla has had a ton of problems with the UMC/HPWC at max rated capability(I'm on UMC #9), the cheapest option is to cripple charging. Not a surprise at all...

How would one charge at the multitude of destination locations that only have outlets such 14-50's, 5-20's, etc...?

 

[SW2Fiddler]

What is stupid is not offering a dual charger option, not even in service centers.

Maybe they are going to offer it!

...Price it such that it wont too time consuming and voila 120A charging option. Except there is no 120A HPWCs around. So bring those out too.

Maybe they are bringing those out too! They won't sell you a "Model X HPWC" without you providing your X's VIN. What could this mean. Hmmm? # of chargers?

Rick

 

[Canuck]

The easy solution is to offer an additional 20 amp charger to be installed at the service centers. Not many people would do it, but for those of us that really want those extra 20 amps, it would be worth it. Or is like when I used to install additional ram in my computers, you can only put in pairs of the same size?

 

[AnOutsider]

An additional would make sense, but from the OP:

Today, I received information from a Tesla source that there will be a single charger offered on the X, and that it will be a 60A charger instead of 40A. I was told that this was in part due to the fact that getting a charger in the back of the vehicle was difficult due to the 3rd row seating. I'm assuming it is also a nice compromise between 40A and 80A.

Just a rumor, but I have reason to believe this is valid information.

So as long as that hasn't changed, I can't see another getting in there. Perhaps later models will be redesigned.

 

[Canuck]

An additional would make sense, but from the OP:

Originally Posted by ohmman
Today, I received information from a Tesla source that there will be a single charger offered on the X, and that it will be a 60A charger instead of 40A. I was told that this was in part due to the fact that getting a charger in the back of the vehicle was difficult due to the 3rd row seating. I'm assuming it is also a nice compromise between 40A and 80A.

Just a rumor, but I have reason to believe this is valid information

So as long as that hasn't changed, I can't see another getting in there. Perhaps later models will be redesigned.

I see. It's a space issue. I guess the good news there is that then it hopefully will not apply to the Model S. Or, even better, would be for the Model S to also have 60 amps at factory and offer 20 additional at service centers.

 

[Saghost]

Even when average charging increases?

What is stupid is not offering a dual charger option, not even in service centers. Chargers will still support parallel charging because of SC usage.
Price it such that it wont too time consuming and voila 120A charging option. Except there is no 120A HPWCs around. So bring those out too. And replace existing units...

This isn't quite as easy as it might seem.

You see, Tesla uses J1772 compliant signaling, which is important for compatibility with everything else out there, and the reason they can easily ship a simple J1772 adaptor with every car - all it does is connect the wires between the two different shaped plugs that were always carrying the same signals.

The reason this is a problem for your plan is J1772 communicates the available power of the outlet/EVSE by using duty cycle on the pilot wire.

They reserved both 0% and 100% as fault codes, and put in 5% as "I am a DCFC station, start communicating digitally" (CCS and Supercharger digital protocols are completely different, but both are triggered this way) - then they spread Amperage levels across the rest of the range, from 6A at 10% through 80A at 96% (See here.)

So there's no way to tell a car that less than 6A continuous or more than 80A continuous are available with J1772 compliant signaling.

I suppose Tesla could use the "go digital" duty cycle and then use the existing Supercharger protocols to negotiate with a high power HPWC, but that's completely different from how the system works now and would require much more sophisticated electronics on the HPWC end than they currently have (and a firmware update to the car to teach it how to communicate with a high power AC EVSE, but that's something Tesla can do easily.)
Walter

 

[hill]

This isn't quite as easy as it might seem.

You see, Tesla uses J1772 compliant signaling, which is important for compatibility with everything else out there, and the reason they can easily ship a simple J1772 adaptor with every car - all it does is connect the wires between the two different shaped plugs that were always carrying the same signals.
. . . . . snip . . . . . .

So there's no way to tell a car that less than 6A continuous or more than 80A continuous are available with J1772 compliant signaling. ...... snip......

J1772's SAE max rating is 70 amps. The hand full manufactured/rated that high are more rare than one might ever imagine.
.

 

[Canuck]

J1772's SAE max rating is 70 amps. The hand full manufactured/rated that high are more rare than one might ever imagine.

That depends on where you live. My first plug into a public evse after I got my car was a 69 amp Sun Country charger on the way to my cabin. We've got a number of them across Western Canada and Tesla recommended the dual chargers to me for that reason. There were very few HPWC's in the wild back then.

 

[WarpedOne]

This isn't quite as easy as it might seem.

But of course. I was hinting at that with "And replace existing units ..." a the end.

Thank you for pointing out the limitation in standard that rules out future dual 60A chargers.
Maybe someday there will be 80A single charger, but there wont be two 60A chargers in a single car.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

Thank you for pointing out the limitation in standard that rules out future dual 60A chargers.

Don't tell me what you think and know, tell me what you see.​

​

Why would a Tesla HPWC purchased with a Model X have to be limited to only using the J1772 Standard communication duty cycles? What other than Teslas are going to connect to it?

 

[mknox]

J1772's SAE max rating is 70 amps. The hand full manufactured/rated that high are more rare than one might ever imagine.
.

ClipperCreek 80 amp units are very common in my neck of the woods. I use one daily at 80 amps. They are distributed in Canada by Sun Country Highway.

 

[patrick42h]

I sure hope this isn't true. I've already pre-wired my new house with a 100 amp circuit for a HPWC (for Dual Chargers) and 2 additional 50 amp 14-50 plugs.

View attachment 89426
Panoramic

View attachment 89427
Left side before sheet rock

You know for the X and the 3. I also had to double the houses power to 400amp (Two 200amp breaker boxes)

Okay, I have a little garage envy. That's going to be nice when it is finished.

I think that if Tesla is going to offer a single 60A charger on the Model X, they may want to offer an option to replace the newer 60A charger with two 40A chargers. Just my opinion, anyway. Model X is going to be bigger and more dependent on powerful charging than Model S. It would make sense to offer faster charging rates on the car by default.

 

[TexasEV]

Okay, I have a little garage envy. That's going to be nice when it is finished.

I think that if Tesla is going to offer a single 60A charger on the Model X, they may want to offer an option to replace the newer 60A charger with two 40A chargers. Just my opinion, anyway. Model X is going to be bigger and more dependent on powerful charging than Model S. It would make sense to offer faster charging rates on the car by default.

Go back and read the beginning of this thread. The reason given for one 60A charger is there isn't room for dual chargers.

 

[patrick42h]

Go back and read the beginning of this thread. The reason given for one 60A charger is there isn't room for dual chargers.

Yeah, I saw that. With all due respect to the OP, I don't trust his anonymous source inside Tesla and we are all going to speculate wildly until Tuesday night, so I decided to speculate based on currently available hardware.