Model X needs a better Quality Control team

[MXZoomZoom]

This is what you said on 8/22/17:

"Update:

I spoke to an excellent individual high up at Tesla yesterday. They helped get the car into service asap and get me a non ice loaner.

Service was completed just now and hopefully I can put this headache behind.

Thanks all. Sorry if I overreacted at any point - I was pretty upset."



So now you were not overreacting and you want something for your annoyance, give me a break.

Hey buddy I'm all out of Kit Kat bars - sorry. I never posted this here but my screen crapped out due to a failed OTA a few weeks after the replacement. It was a software glitch though and yeah I alternate between salty and hella salty when it comes to Tesla. As an owner I can express whatever I want.

Go take your attitude and divert it towards non-owners blindly shitting on the brand - not the people helping keep it afloat in the first place by you know... actually paying for product and then suffering the consequences of someone's ineptitude and then dealing with the apologists.

Don't you worry though, Model 3 owners will be far less forgiving than anyone here. They will demand their money back instead of airing grievances on forums like this

Personally I propose that Tesla clone Jon McNiell - he is the glue that is holding it all together.

 

[Super_Popular]

Hey buddy I'm all out of Kit Kat bars - sorry. I never posted this here but my screen crapped out due to a failed OTA a few weeks after the replacement. It was a software glitch though and yeah I alternate between salty and hella salty when it comes to Tesla. As an owner I can express whatever I want.

Go take your attitude and divert it towards non-owners blindly shitting on the brand - not the people helping keep it afloat in the first place by you know... actually paying for product and then suffering the consequences of someone's ineptitude and then dealing with the apologists.

Don't you worry though, Model 3 owners will be far less forgiving than anyone here. They will demand their money back instead of airing grievances on forums like this

Personally I propose that Tesla clone Jon McNiell - he is the glue that is holding it all together.

I am not the one with the attitude, I was simply quoting YOUR posts "Buddy".

 

[MXZoomZoom]

Back to the topic:

Build fast, fix later: Speed hurts quality at Tesla, some workers say

Build fast, fix later: Speed hurts quality at Tesla, some workers say • r/teslamotors

 

[ChrML]

Back to the topic:

Build fast, fix later: Speed hurts quality at Tesla, some workers say

Build fast, fix later: Speed hurts quality at Tesla, some workers say • r/teslamotors

The former employees seems to confirm pretty much what most people are thinking. Ive heard about cars being delivered dirty and the customer finding like 6 faults in 10 minutes? It's like, does Tesla even look at the car before shipping it?

Ofcourse Tesla has to deny these claims, but it's obviously true.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The fact that TMC even has an extensive check list for Model X tells one all they need to know about this.

It is quite common that Model Xs have had a significant number of components replaced with new ones.

Anyone here with a Model X that has not had something replaced?

I can tell you, of my past cars (mostly German premiums), I can't think of any that had to get something replaced due to build quality issues. Sure, some warranty fixes for something breaking over time, but build quality? No.

I'd wager most Model Xs here have gone back to the shop to get something fixed that was "broken" from day 1.

That is definitely not normal amongst the industry, but very normal amongst Model X owners.

I also think most long-time followers here believe Tesla's quarterly demand goals dictate that cars are delivered within quarter no matter what. Their orders seem to be to get the car out the door and back to be fixed later. Tesla also is known to send cars from factory with missing parts or known issues and use service centers to mend them, all in an effort to build and deliver cars within a quarter... issues or not...

 

[dmeyer]

Nothing on mine needed to be replaced. But I think most tech buyers realize that the price of reliability isn't six figures, rather it's simplicity. The X isn't a simple car. Anybody who looks at the feature set and doesn't factor in extra maintenance is naïve.

 

[mattack4000]

Don't make excuse for them. It's obvious they don't really look at the car. I have seen cars delivered full of stuff with things inside. If they have the deliver guy spend just 5 minutes in the car, I bet they would be able to identify some of the problems (not having all the keys, floormats, warning message in dash, all the accessories are on it).

Matter of fact, how about just hire one person to print out a 12 step checklist and have that person go through it before delivery. Not asking for much.

 

[dmeyer]

I don't think it's an excuse to point out that detailed finish and reliability concerns are generally not what one expects when they buy from a startup attempting to land ambitious defining features. I for one am perfectly happy to have Tesla NOT focus on getting everything perfect, because I'd rather they get new features out the door so that they can continue to build competitive advantage. But sure, add some QA off the line. It's not going to get me into a another Tesla any faster, because I'm just as happy to sort that out locally with my delivery specialist, but that sounds great.

 

[silverwolfe08]

The fact that TMC even has an extensive check list for Model X tells one all they need to know about this.

It is quite common that Model Xs have had a significant number of components replaced with new ones.

Anyone here with a Model X that has not had something replaced?

I can tell you, of my past cars (mostly German premiums), I can't think of any that had to get something replaced due to build quality issues. Sure, some warranty fixes for something breaking over time, but build quality? No.

I'd wager most Model Xs here have gone back to the shop to get something fixed that was "broken" from day 1.

That is definitely not normal amongst the industry, but very normal amongst Model X owners.

I also think most long-time followers here believe Tesla's quarterly demand goals dictate that cars are delivered within quarter no matter what. Their orders seem to be to get the car out the door and back to be fixed later. Tesla also is known to send cars from factory with missing parts or known issues and use service centers to mend them, all in an effort to build and deliver cars within a quarter... issues or not...

I have not had any build quality issues in my first 6k miles of ownership (took delivery in Aug). I did have an issue where my mirrors stopped folding every time I did the X-mas song, but turned out to be software update related (I wasn't the only one) and was fixed with an OTA update. My key fobs also died, but Tesla replaced them. So certainly some issues, but the build quality on mine appears to be good so far. No weird noises, no trim misalignments, no issues with the doors squeaking or anything like that. I still wouldn't own this car out of warranty because Tesla charges an arm and a leg for service, but I'm happy with the purchase so far.

 

[BuildingCap]

Has anybody else confirmed these repair lots? A number of people have been reporting deliveries where their Xs has been in production 2-3 weeks rather than the normal one week, and it is easy to imagine this is why:

Snags are normal with any new launch. But chronic defects with Tesla's established Models S and X show a company still struggling to master basic manufacturing, workers said.

Known as "kickbacks" within Tesla, these vehicles have glitches as minor as dents and scratches to more complex troubles such as malfunctioning seats. Easy fixes are made swiftly on the factory floor, workers said.

Trickier cases head to one of Tesla's outdoor parking lots to await repair. The backlog in one of those two lots, dubbed the "yard," has exceeded 2,000 vehicles at times, workers told Reuters.

Tesla denied to Reuters that such "repair lots" exist.

Better to fix them before delivery, I suppose... Waiting an extra week or two is preferable to having to bring it back to the service center.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Nothing on mine needed to be replaced. But I think most tech buyers realize that the price of reliability isn't six figures, rather it's simplicity. The X isn't a simple car. Anybody who looks at the feature set and doesn't factor in extra maintenance is naïve.

When did you get yours?

As for simplicity, I argue the average ICE at this price level is significantly more complex. Not only is a large ICE in itself a far more complex beast, the electric comforts in such cars are vastly more complex compared to a Model X. Model X has, for example, very basic seating controls, nothing special, yet the seats are one of the most problematic parts of the car.

The thing is, I could sort of get it if the problems with Model X are the rear doors. Maybe we can even sort of excuse the ghosting issues on the large windshield.

But then the problems aren't that. For example, a not-insignificant number of Model X owners on TMC got their second and third row rear seating rusted out inside and under the third-row from the factory. Rusted in placed clearly visible to a user that just checks (not under panels or such). That, for example, is a significant quality faux pa, that should never happen on this level. Probably more so didn't even check. This is nothing complex, just basic coach-building.

Same with panel gaps, or incorrectly wearing leather etc. all very basic coach-building, not Model X special issues.

Rust in Model X middle seat

Rust under third row seats

Leather wrinkling after 3 days??

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Better to fix them before delivery, I suppose... Waiting an extra week or two is preferable to having to bring it back to the service center.

Yes, but Tesla's startegy is to get the cars delivered as fast as possible, and fix them later. This is to improve the quarterly results. Many, many people are taking deliveries very late in the quarter and Tesla pushing them to accept the cars and fix them later.

This is intentional, obviously. Hence the cars get pushed out with issues that many other manufacturers would never let past them. Now, Tesla usually does fix them later, but this chain of events just basically proves this thread's premise IMO.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

My key fobs also died, but Tesla replaced them. So certainly some issues, but the build quality on mine appears to be good so far.

One would certainly hope by August 2017 the quality has improved. 2016 was abysmal of course, but still in 2017 some things have persisted (Tesla for example gave up on adaptive spoiler and cooled seats, probably due to issues they couldn't get right). Incidentally, the ventilated seat's leather and adaptive spoiler have been a couple of things on the constant issues list...

 

[Peteski]

I get the impression that Tesla PDIs are often very poor and a lot of simple faults could be picked up and rectified before delivery. It would mean slightly longer delivery times, but more satisfied customers. Is this a manufacturing problem or inexperienced Tesla dealers? I would say a bit of both, but mainly the latter given that most serious quality issues have been addressed on the line.

Having said that, in the UK at least, car dealers of all brands are very much hit or miss, whether it be Porsche, BMW, Merc, Audi etc. Some dealers are great, some average, others a joke. Tesla is different in not having franchised private dealers, so they could and should be able to provide a more consistent customer facing experience. But because humans are involved in customer service, the reality is again hit or miss depending on the humans involved! What I see in our local Tesla dealership is a bunch of enthusiastic, but inexperienced young guys. Hopefully they will improve their knowledge while maintaining their enthusiasm along the way!

I would love to see Tesla's actual official PDI procedure, I presume there is one, LOL. If not then seriously that is a major issue, but I can't believe they would not have a procedure in place. Whether it gets followed or not to the letter is another matter.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@Peteski As Tesla optimizes their global distribution and manufacturing batching for end of quarter deliveries, there often isn't time to rectify stuff. They are under pressure to deliver those cars within the quarter - and lots of them.

The customer is pressured into taking delivery and returning with the car later for service. That's the whole premise of this thread, of course, and IMO it is absolutely factual.

 

[dmeyer]

When did you get yours?

As for simplicity, I argue the average ICE at this price level is significantly more complex. Not only is a large ICE in itself a far more complex beast, the electric comforts in such cars are vastly more complex compared to a Model X. Model X has, for example, very basic seating controls, nothing special, yet the seats are one of the most problematic parts of the car.

The thing is, I could sort of get it if the problems with Model X are the rear doors. Maybe we can even sort of excuse the ghosting issues on the large windshield.

But then the problems aren't that. For example, a not-insignificant number of Model X owners on TMC got their second and third row rear seating rusted out inside and under the third-row from the factory. Rusted in placed clearly visible to a user that just checks (not under panels or such). That, for example, is a significant quality faux pa, that should never happen on this level. Probably more so didn't even check. This is nothing complex, just basic coach-building.

Same with panel gaps, or incorrectly wearing leather etc. all very basic coach-building, not Model X special issues.

Rust in Model X middle seat

Rust under third row seats

Leather wrinkling after 3 days??

I got mine in August and I tried to be picky, but the quality on my car is fine. My sense (which could be mistaken) is that some folks take it for granted that X's overwhelmingly have quality issues. Maybe, but I don't think so. I just think people who have bad experiences are much more likely to bring it to the internet. My other less-justified sense is that some people (and I truly don't mean you or anyone in particular) expect that writing a big check entitles them not have to do their own due diligence wrt quality. That would be nice, but my experience is of the more-money-more-problems variety.

So you asked outright if anybody had an X that didn't need parts replaced - Yup. Mine. I also know a lot of tesla owners, but I don't know anybody who had quality issues. So you are citing some flaws in some cars, and I see that, but I'm not sure what to do with it because I can't measure how widespread those issues currently are.

But if they were widespread, or if my car had some some initial quality issues why would I care much? My point about complexity comes down to this: I fully expect buyers of this car to take it in for service multiple times during its warranty period. I also expect that Tesla will sort out any quality issues quickly and professionally. If you expect that your car will be delivered perfect then I don't understand your priorities, but I respect them. I humbly suggest you look at a new Toyota, because their assembly lines are better. It might always be so. My priorities are different though, which should be obvious because I bought a complicated expensive car from a young manufacturer.

 

[vandacca]

One would certainly hope by August 2017 the quality has improved. 2016 was abysmal of course, but still in 2017 some things have persisted (Tesla for example gave up on adaptive spoiler and cooled seats, probably due to issues they couldn't get right). Incidentally, the ventilated seat's leather and adaptive spoiler have been a couple of things on the constant issues list...

As a side-note, the adaptive spoiler is a really beautiful design. Flows beautifully and looks very smooth and elegant. However, it wasn't designed to be serviced and whenever there is a problem with it, it's a real pain because one needs to remove the hatch glass and destroy the spoiler in order to get to the guts of it. Furthermore, most SC can't do this work, so it has to be contracted out. Even though it saddens me, it makes sense that they have (temporarily?) eliminated this option.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

As a side-note, the adaptive spoiler is a really beautiful design. Flows beautifully and looks very smooth and elegant. However, it wasn't designed to be serviced and whenever there is a problem with it, it's a real pain because one needs to remove the hatch glass and destroy the spoiler in order to get to the guts of it. Furthermore, most SC can't do this work, so it has to be contracted out. Even though it saddens me, it makes sense that they have (temporarily?) eliminated this option.

My spoiler broke something after a week since delivery or so and they replaced a bunch of parts.

It has gotten stuck since then a couple of times since then, but I've managed to nudge it moving again.

I do like the spoiler otherwise. I'm hoping the replacement parts work better, at least they still work.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

If you expect that your car will be delivered perfect then I don't understand your priorities, but I respect them. I humbly suggest you look at a new Toyota, because their assembly lines are better. It might always be so. My priorities are different though, which should be obvious because I bought a complicated expensive car from a young manufacturer.

I don't expect anything in this thread.

I'm just citing information and experiences to support the IMO fact that Tesla rushes cars out (to meet quarterly requirementsI) and fixes them later - as is the premise of this whole thread.

This is how Tesla operates. How one feels about it is a whole another discussion.

 

[dmeyer]

I'm not sure why you think that the thread subject is so narrow given that the title is: "Model X needs a better quality control team", but I would expect/hope that you are right in your exceedingly narrow claim. They rush cars out and fix them in the field, as well they should.