Model X Travel Trailer Consumption Analysis

[ecarfan]

Quite surprised with Alto consumption. I was expecting better numbers for such light weight trailer and supposedly aerodynamic

I was also surprised by the Alto consumption data. In another thread about towing with an X there is a discussion about the possible explanation, which could be that the aerodynamics of the Alto R1723 with the roof lowered are much worse than one might assume, and that the Alto R1743 (fixed roof) model could in fact have better aerodynamics. This is counterintuitive, but Alto owner reports in the Altoistes Facebook group indicate that ICE mpg figures are roughly the same for the two Alto models with the same tow vehicle. So far I have not found any towing tests where someone tried to accurately measure ICE towing energy usage with the two Alto models, everything is more "seat of the pants" data. @ohmman and I are hopeful that when Alto R1723 owner @fortytwo continues his cross-country USA trip this coming spring towing with his Model X he will do additional energy usage testing to verify his numbers and we will have more data.

Bjorn's Model X towing data is helpful but he typically limited his speed to 50mph for his tests. As @Zoomit pointed out in another thread, that can be dangerously slow on American freeways. It would be nice to have energy usage data at 55 and 60mph.

I am planning on buying an Alto F1743 in early 2018 and therefore have a keen interest in towing energy usage.

 

[AndreyATC]

I love the R1723 and about to put deposit on it
I'm still trying to figure out if I can use it comfortably with 3 small children age of 3,5,8
However, Bowlus is stuck in my head and my wallet is not happy with it
It's such a nice trailer
It offers so much within 2300lb of weight

 

[ecarfan]

I love the R1723 and about to put deposit on it
I'm still trying to figure out if I can use it comfortably with 3 small children age of 3,5,8

Only if one of your children was okay with sleeping on the floor. Maybe in the space below the center of the rear sleeping area?

The Bowlus Road Chief would certainly accomodate all your kids, but its price is about quadruple the price of an Alto R1723.

Are you okay with the towing range of your X based on what you have read on TMC?

 

[ohmman]

However, Bowlus is stuck in my head and my wallet is not happy with it
It's such a nice trailer
It offers so much within 2300lb of weight

This is true. The build quality is very high and it's an impressive trailer overall. Since this is the consumption thread, I'll point out that it does the best of all travel trailers I've had the ability to analyze, and it would sleep four comfortably. Five.. uncomfortably, unless you're co-sleepers. In which case, still uncomfortably. The Alto 1723 doesn't appear to offer the best straight-line consumption (comparing similarly to my 22' Airstream) but on consistent climbs it should outperform my rig. I look forward to getting more data on regen, as @JimVandegriff has reported a significant amount of recapture on descents. If that's the case, the main penalty for the weight will be on steep inclines that don't have chargers up them.

Would you want to be able to all eat inside if the weather's bad or if you're winter camping? How about playing family games? Your kids are young but soon you'll want to all sit and play together. The Bowlus has a dinette that seats 2. You can get a sofa table but it wouldn't make for a comfortable dinette with the sofa underneath. The Alto 1723 has a convertible dinette in the rear and you'd have plenty of space. The trade-off is that you'll have to make the bed every night, and you'll probably have to co-sleep anyway. Also, you'll potentially be consuming just as much as a heavier, larger trailer with more space for your family.

In my opinion, from all of the analysis I've done, the biggest benefit to the Alto 1723 is the ability to park it in a garage. I would love to have that ability with my Airstream. If I lived in a cold climate, it'd be especially welcome since winterization could become a barrier to using the trailer more often in the spring/fall.

 

[AndreyATC]

All good points thank you both
We can definitely fit with one youngest kid in king size bed. So the other two kids could sleep separate. Alto has bunkbeds option, it should work technically in a similar fashion as with bowlus.
My 3-car garage is 21' 4". It is a big advantage to park the trailer inside.
I wonder if 23 feet spec on the bowlus is with the hitch. I think it can be easily removed and perhaps shrink in size a bit. Fuselage does not seem to look 23 long

 

[AndreyATC]

So... I had a phone conversation with someone at Bowlus
Hitch part of the trailer is removable with some basic skills and given instructions
It should take 1-2 hrs to do the job ( it's OK to do once a twice a year for the winter )
I'm not 100% sure what size the trailer will become once disassembled, but it'll be most likely below 20'
Height without antenna is barely 8' and should clear garages with 8' doors
I was suggested to just roll it into garage at small angle to clear the length.
Given the pointy shape front and back it may actually fit diogonally within one parking space

 

[aesculus]

Thanks to @ohmman and many others I have been able to add extensive towing estimates to EVTO. You can see an recreation of part of @ohmman extensive trip using EVTO's trailer features here:

Towing with EVTO | Digital Auto Guides

 

[ecarfan]

Outstanding work! I just went through the recreation of @ohmman’s trip using EVTO. Tomorrow I am doing a 282 mile trip with my trailer from San Mateo to Buelton, CA. I will use EVTO to plan the trip using the new “High Profile” capability in EVTO and report back on how closely the EVTO estimates match my real world energy usage. Thanks!

Thanks to @ohmman and many others I have been able to add extensive towing estimates to EVTO. You can see an recreation of part of @ohmman extensive trip using EVTO's trailer features here:

Towing with EVTO | Digital Auto Guides

 

[ecarfan]

@aesculus I notice that in your “Appendix – Suggested Trailer Settings” you show the Bowlus with a Power Factor of 20 and “Model X” for Car Model, but the Airstream Sport is shown as a Power Factor of 10 and Car Model “Model X HP”. Is that because that is the way those trailers were tested in EVTO? Seems like the Bowlus should be set to “Model X HP”. While that trailer is quite aerodynamic, it’s significantly taller than an X.

In a few days I should have some real world long distance towing data on my Safari Condo Alto F1743 trailer for you after my 600 mile trip to Buelton and back. It’s a modest journey compared to what some other Model X owners have already done, but it’s a start for me.

 

[aesculus]

@aesculus I notice that in your “Appendix – Suggested Trailer Settings” you show the Bowlus with a Power Factor of 20 and “Model X” for Car Model, but the Airstream Sport is shown as a Power Factor of 10 and Car Model “Model X HP”. Is that because that is the way those trailers were tested in EVTO? Seems like the Bowlus should be set to “Model X HP”. While that trailer is quite aerodynamic, it’s significantly taller than an X.

There are actually two Bowlus entries. It depends mostly on the expected winds and I am still waiting for a user to confirm both models.

The one with the pf of 20 uses the regular Model X profile so it has less wind resistance, hence the higher pf of 20.

The other uses the High Profile Model X and also the lower pf of 10.

In a few days I should have some real world long distance towing data on my Safari Condo Alto F1743 trailer for you after my 600 mile trip to Buelton and back. It’s a modest journey compared to what some other Model X owners have already done, but it’s a start for me.

That would be great to get that data. Either log files or just screenshots of the dash consumption at stops is good too.

 

[ecarfan]

I just went through the recreation of @ohmman’s trip using EVTO. Tomorrow I am doing a 282 mile trip with my trailer from San Mateo to Buelton, CA. I will use EVTO to plan the trip using the new “High Profile” capability in EVTO and report back on how closely the EVTO estimates match my real world energy usage

Had to cancel that trip because the SpaceX launch at Vandenburg was postponed by 24 hours and my wife had to be back by noon on Friday for work. So to take advantage of the time off I found a campground near Watsonville and am there now. Could not use EVTO because I didn’t take the most direct route to get there and didn’t see how to force EVTO to map the route I wanted.

My towing trip today was 93 miles at a steady 55mph, no net elevation change, mostly flat freeways and highways with some modest hills, air temp around 75, dry roads, no wind, and the X100D with 20” wheels used 484wH/mi towing a 17 ft Alto trailer that with a full 60L tank of water and our stuff weighs about 2,000 lbs (dry weight 1700 lbs). Measured tongue weight 200 lbs.

I am pretty happy that energy usage was 484wH/mi under those conditions.

 

[aesculus]

Could not use EVTO because I didn’t take the most direct route to get there and didn’t see how to force EVTO to map the route I wanted.

Sometimes Google routing is a bit cryptic. I am investigating an issue in Australia that should be direct too, but it wants to go through a supercharger even though it's slower.

Anyway the easiest way to force EVTO to go where you want is to add a waypoint along the route you want. I have even put them on the split of a highway by zooming in real close and then pressing and holding on the traffic lane. It will estimate a slow down and stop there but that will be insignificant and actually can help improve the weather forecasting and energy calculation.

You can go back and do this after the fact. Just make sure your date/time reflect when you left. I would appreciate the feedback as I am still working through the parameters of car model, power factor and other tidbits for various types of trailers.

 

[ecarfan]

@aesculus thanks for reminding me about using a waypoint to force a route. I did that today on my trip home from Watsonville to San Mateo taking Hwy 1 to Half Moon Bay and then east on 92. Trip was 74 miles, no wind, temps in the high 50’s, hilly road but essentially no net elevation change, most of the time at 55mph but some short stretches were slower. Car averaged 589Wh/mi. EVTO estimated it would be 512Wh/mi using my “Model X HP” profile which specifies a 2,500 lb payload, climate control at 75, Power Factor 10, Dual Motor drive, 20” wheels, all season tires.

Looks like I need to increase the Power Factor.

 

[aesculus]

Looks like I need to increase the Power Factor.

Yeah. I am going to change the tutorial after a number of reports like this.

It looks like the Bowlus Road Chief can get by with a pf = 10, Airstream = 20 and some other users have reported they needed a pf=30 to match the consumption on less efficient trailers.

The power factors stated were just guidelines until we got more usage. Since everyone's trailers might be a bit more or less efficient, you have to do like you have and experiment a bit.

BTW when using @ohmman excellent logs I found myself going between pf=10 and pf=20. I finally justified it by deciding lots of mountainous driving needed the higher power factor but that was really just a WAG. It might be anything that causes that leg to be a bit more aggressive in energy consumption such as steeper hills, needing to get up to speed faster because of traffic, how you feel that day ...

 

[idoco]

It looks like the Bowlus Road Chief can get by with a pf = 10, Airstream = 20 and some other users have reported they needed a pf=30 to match the consumption on less efficient trailers.

The power factors stated were just guidelines until we got more usage.

I can probably help you out with some Bowlus data in a couple weeks since we're towing one back to the East Coast from Las Vegas with our X90D. I'm logging it via TeslaFi so should have decent data.

Probably will post something on the blog Tin Poodle comparing real time use to predictions from EVTripPlanner (with custom settings for MX pulling trailer).

 

[aesculus]

I can probably help you out with some Bowlus data in a couple weeks since we're towing one back to the East Coast from Las Vegas with our X90D. I'm logging it via TeslaFi so should have decent data.

Cool. If you feel inclined I would love to see your logs. You can send them to [email protected].

 

[ohmman]

I can probably help you out with some Bowlus data in a couple weeks since we're towing one back to the East Coast from Las Vegas with our X90D. I'm logging it via TeslaFi so should have decent data.

Probably will post something on the blog Tin Poodle comparing real time use to predictions from EVTripPlanner (with custom settings for MX pulling trailer).

Is that yours? Congrats, if so!

 

[idoco]

Is that yours? Congrats, if so!

We are picking up ours in two weeks. The photo on the blog is a stock photo, until I can take actual photos.

BTW...big thank you to all the work put in by @ohmman @JimVandegriff @jackbowers and all the others who have contributed to the MX trailer threads. Your discussions and analyses were instrumental in my research and purchase!

 

[noahsw]

I've got some data from two trips I recently took with rentals.

2013 Jayco Jay flight SLX 185RB
(https://www.jayco.com/files/downloads/prod_brochure_filename_193.pdf). 2800 dry weight. Slight upwards slope on the trailer nose, otherwise not aerodynamic at all.

I was mostly driving along I-5 in Washington State. Range was a little better than half (620 Wh/mi) in ideal conditions going 55mph (no wind, no elevation change, ~50 degree temp). Standard ball hitch without brake controller worked fine. Only felt a little sway when giant semis passed me.

I found the EVTO app needed high profile mode with a power factor close to 30 to match my stats.

2015 Jayco Jay Flight SLX 154BH
(2015 Jay Flight SLX 154BH | Jayco, Inc.). 2400 dry weight. Slight upwards slope on the trailer nose, otherwise not aerodynamic at all.

I drove from Tacoma area to Prosser, WA which required me to drive up and over the pass.

Des Moines (92' elevation) to North Bend (440' elevation) - 649 wh/mi. 43 mi. 28 kWh

North Bend to Snoqualmie Pass (3000' elev) - 1004 wh/mi. 23 mi. 23 kWh

Snoqualmie Pass to Ellensburg (1542' elev) - 555 wh/mi. 58 mi. 32 kWh

Ellensburg to Prosser (666' elev) - 640 wh/mi. 80 mi. 51 kWh

Prosser to Ellensburg in pouring rain, with pit stop in Yakima - 719 wh/mi. 83 mi. 60 kWh


We just pulled the trigger on a Winnebago Minnie Drop 170K! http://www.tacomarv.com/default.asp...Year&d=D&floorplan=bunkhouse&fr=xAllInventory

 

[ohmman]

We are picking up ours in two weeks. The photo on the blog is a stock photo, until I can take actual photos.

Yes, I got that. Sorry, I didn't phrase it well. What I meant was "is it yours that you'll be hauling across the country?" And congratulations. I definitely have some camper envy. It's going to be gorgeous!