Model X vs Volvo XC90

[aija SigX 649]

The XC90 is a nice vehicle. But once you drive electric, it's almost impossible to go back. Every time I drive my gas powered vehicles it's so apparent how archaic using fossil fuel exploding mechanical pistons up and down and shifting up and down gears is..

+1 ..completely agree. The gasoline engine will go the way of the steam engine, that went the way of the horse and buggy ..a lot quicker than most folks think today. It's already outstayed it's welcome IMHO - thanks to some very powerful special interests that care very little about the bigger picture. I'd like to think that we've hit an inflection point with those that know better now!

 

[brandeeno]

I imagine our car after this purchase will be electric... about 7 years out, to replace our 2012 CRV

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I canceled my X reservation last week. I have come to terms that spending ~100k is just too crazy for a middle class person like my self.

Just to be clear, ~$100k is too much, but ~$80k you're comfortable with? Serious question actually, as we're in the same boat in our decision going forward on the X. We feel that there isn't THAT great a difference in price, and the benefits outweigh the added cost. Personal choice, I know.

 

[TexasEV]

Don't forget the $20,000 difference is made much smaller by not buying gas. Home charging costs about 1/3 of gas for similar mileage, and long distance travel will be free with superchargers.

 

[brandeeno]

Just to be clear, ~$100k is too much, but ~$80k you're comfortable with? Serious question actually, as we're in the same boat in our decision going forward on the X. We feel that there isn't THAT great a difference in price, and the benefits outweigh the added cost. Personal choice, I know.

I am not getting the Hybrid T8. I would be getting the base Momentum model T6, with add ons I am looking at somewhere around 56k. So that is actually 44k difference. I don't expect that to ever be made up in gas. I am all ears if you could convince me otherwise! It wasn't easy canceling my reservation, but it was simply me coming back to earth (and nagging from wife).

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I am not getting the Hybrid T8. I would be getting the base Momentum model T6, with add ons I am looking at somewhere around 56k. So that is actually 44k difference. I don't expect that to ever be made up in gas. I am all ears if you could convince me otherwise! It wasn't easy canceling my reservation, but it was simply me coming back to earth (and nagging from wife).

Gotcha, that makes more sense.

Honestly, if there was a cheaper option to the Model X (without auto-pilot, and some of the luxury accessories) and still had similar functionality (access to 3rd row with car seats, 200+ mile range, Supercharger-esque network) and similar safety numbers we would probably cancel our X reservation too. $100k is a great deal of money, and while we want to support Tesla...we're having to make some sacrifices to do so.

 

[Drucifer]

After going in a circle from keeping our paid off Saab Wagon a while longer, to getting a used Mercedes R Class diesel (4-6 years old) to bridge the gap, to getting Model X after the queue clears, to getting an XC-90 T8 sooner, when it comes out, we are back full circle.

Keeping the Saab Wagon for 2-3 more years until we can get the X, with Gen 2 autopilot hardware - probably in late 2017 or 2018.

Here is to hoping our 11 year old wagon holds up well for a bit longer.

 

[vandacca]

I am not getting the Hybrid T8. I would be getting the base Momentum model T6, with add ons I am looking at somewhere around 56k. So that is actually 44k difference. I don't expect that to ever be made up in gas. I am all ears if you could convince me otherwise! It wasn't easy canceling my reservation, but it was simply me coming back to earth (and nagging from wife).

That's a very personal decision and mostly depends on how long you would be happy owning your next vehicle. For example, if you were satisfied owning your vehicle for 20 years, and you calculate the savings in gas, maintenance and time, the total cost of ownership may be less with the Model-X. The Model-X has a high up-front cost, but once owned, is very economical to run and maintain.

Alternatively, if you typically own cars for 5 years before a refresh, then there is no way a Model-X will be cost effective, although it may still have pretty good resale value.

Another factor that is difficult to calculate and rarely gets thought about is the cost of pollution.

 

[brandeeno]

I plan to own my car's 10'ish years. Have not done so yet, as I am not that old and was living in new york city for 8 years. My CRV is 3 years old. While the idea to keep the model X for 20 years sounds great, I am not sure how likely this would be for me... I understand Tesla is at the forefront of upgrading cars, software, process, even hardware... but I image a whole slew new tech and needs in the 10 years. Sure its possible as I dont have to have the latest and greatest all the time, but I can't guess what new tech we will have in 10 years. I would also need to factor in a new battery pack after maybe every 8 years?... right now the new roadster battery pack upgrade costs 29k.

 

[Drucifer]

I plan to own my car's 10'ish years. Have not done so yet, as I am not that old and was living in new york city for 8 years. My CRV is 3 years old. While the idea to keep the model X for 20 years sounds great, I am not sure how likely this would be for me... I understand Tesla is at the forefront of upgrading cars, software, process, even hardware... but I image a whole slew new tech and needs in the 10 years. Sure its possible as I dont have to have the latest and greatest all the time, but I can't guess what new tech we will have in 10 years. I would also need to factor in a new battery pack after maybe every 8 years?... right now the new roadster battery pack upgrade costs 29k.

The battery loses less than 1% a year. In 16 years your Model X 90D will be a Model X "77D" or your Model X 70D will be a Model X "60D". By then there will be Superchargers every 50 miles on most major routes and you can just keep going OR batteries will be less than half the cost of what they are today OR you get a new one.

 

[vandacca]

I plan to own my car's 10'ish years. Have not done so yet, as I am not that old and was living in new york city for 8 years. My CRV is 3 years old. While the idea to keep the model X for 20 years sounds great, I am not sure how likely this would be for me... I understand Tesla is at the forefront of upgrading cars, software, process, even hardware... but I image a whole slew new tech and needs in the 10 years. Sure its possible as I dont have to have the latest and greatest all the time, but I can't guess what new tech we will have in 10 years. I would also need to factor in a new battery pack after maybe every 8 years?... right now the new roadster battery pack upgrade costs 29k.

Battery pack upgrade is definitely going to be the biggest maintenance cost for an EV. There are a lot of unknowns, but battery prices are expected to continue to fall and capacity is expected to increase. Battery pack upgrades will also be a personal thing. In 15 years, you would likely still have 80% capacity and that may be fine for some (it's rare for a battery pack to completely fail, but it is more likely to slowly degrade over time). And if you do decide to upgrade in 10-20 years, you'll likely be upgrading from a 250 mile range to a 300+ mile range. This is unchartered territory, but I believe that battery technology will only get better and cheaper, which is a good thing since it should be a trivial upgrade on a Tesla.

 

[brandeeno]

The comments to the battery percentage degradation don't line up to what I recall reading 6-12 months ago. Does anybody have any links regarding this? Tesla/Elon quotes of course (not other batteries).

 

[MrBoylan]

The battery loses less than 1% a year. In 16 years your Model X 90D will be a Model X "77D" or your Model X 70D will be a Model X "60D". By then there will be Superchargers every 50 miles on most major routes and you can just keep going OR batteries will be less than half the cost of what they are today OR you get a new one.

I believe the longevity of the battery packs depends more on mileage driven than on time. The study of Model S battery capacity done in the Netherlands showed that the Model S battery lost about 6% capacity after 50,000 miles (on average) but the range loss slows to about 1% per 30,000 miles thereafter. The US average mileage driven per driver is about 11,244 miles per year (though some drive much more, and city-dwellers like me actually drive much less).

So based on this rate and the assumption of 11,244 miles driven per year and similar performance of the Model X batteries to the Model S batteries, after 10 years of "average" use, the Model X 90D should still have about 234 miles of range (EPA) or 91% of capacity. After 20 years, it should have about 225 miles of range (88%). I'm OK with that.

I'd imagine with the gigafactory in operation and advances in battery technology, I'd probably be able to trade in the battery in 15 years at a relatively affordable cost for a new pack with potentially even greater range than the original pack. And at that point my pack could be recycled into a few PowerWalls. But even if I don't keep mine that long, the resale value of a Model X after 15 years with around 90% of its original range should be pretty good.

Netherlands battery study: Tesla Model S battery degradation data | Steinbuch
Average vehicle driving data: Alternative Fuels Data Center: Maps and Data

 

[peteyswift]

I am not getting the Hybrid T8. I would be getting the base Momentum model T6, with add ons I am looking at somewhere around 56k. So that is actually 44k difference. I don't expect that to ever be made up in gas. I am all ears if you could convince me otherwise! It wasn't easy canceling my reservation, but it was simply me coming back to earth (and nagging from wife).

+1 here. I got the XC90 T6 Momentum Plus with some, but not all, goodies. Total was $57,600. It is a 3 year lease and at least gets better gas mileage and is safer than the old minivan. I also think it will take about 3 years to make buying a second Tesla a no-brainer whereas now I'd still have to consider reliability, Supercharger access, communication issues, and other things in purchasing a Model X.

I don't believe an $80k T8 hybrid would be worth it over the Model X factoring in gas and tax savings along with production pricing probably being less.

I hear what everyone is saying about not being able to go back to ICE, but is Tesla giving these things away? Do you also have a Model S (maybe more than one) and solar panels? As already stated above, it's not so simple for 99.9% of people to have $100k cars x 2. Sorry, just a reality check [emoji6].

 

[Drucifer]

I hear what everyone is saying about not being able to go back to ICE, but is Tesla giving these things away? Do you also have a Model S (maybe more than one) and solar panels? As already stated above, it's not so simple for 99.9% of people to have $100k cars x 2. Sorry, just a reality check [emoji6].

Yes - this. I paid off the solar panels and then got the S. I need to get the S paid down at least most of the way before getting X. I can only swallow paying for one Tesla at a time. Throw two Toyotas or Buicks at me, no problem.

 

[peteyswift]

Throw two Toyotas or Buicks at me, no problem.

Lol!!!

 

[Drucifer]

Lol!!!

OK, don't literally throw two Buicks at me...I meant the payment books.

 

[Tgibson]

We are considering the T8 but will likely end up with the Model X. My take on T8 vs. T6 is the opposite of yours. The T8 costs $18,300. However, the Inscription package is $2,100 lower on the T8, federal tax credit $4,585, CO state credit of $6,000, gas savings, plus higher residual value upon sale all lead me to the T8. Perhaps the difference in our thinking is the state credit of $6,000. Or I am looking at it wrong. Help me if I am missing something.

+1 here. I got the XC90 T6 Momentum Plus with some, but not all, goodies. Total was $57,600. It is a 3 year lease and at least gets better gas mileage and is safer than the old minivan. I also think it will take about 3 years to make buying a second Tesla a no-brainer whereas now I'd still have to consider reliability, Supercharger access, communication issues, and other things in purchasing a Model X.

I don't believe an $80k T8 hybrid would be worth it over the Model X factoring in gas and tax savings along with production pricing probably being less.

I hear what everyone is saying about not being able to go back to ICE, but is Tesla giving these things away? Do you also have a Model S (maybe more than one) and solar panels? As already stated above, it's not so simple for 99.9% of people to have $100k cars x 2. Sorry, just a reality check [emoji6].

 

[Anzir]

Former Sig X reservation holder, just received my $40k refund last week. Just purchased a T6 XC90 Inscription for $800 over invoice, totaling $61k before tax/tag. For us, the X wasn't worth the >$70k price delta, especially considering my wife did not like the X styling in the front.

 

[peteyswift]

This is ICE, but I think it's nice.