Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I meant that I did re-read it and I did misinterpret what you said. I'm sorry I accused you of blaming the child.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Model X with child in drivers seat allegedly injures woman
- Thread starter Neon001
- Start date
So she left her 2 year old unsupervised in a car and not strapped into a car seat ? Someone should call CPS and file a complaint on her so the child can be taken and placed in a safe home.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
She was 5 feet away from her child. Do parents keep their kids in cages these days? I'm so confused.
Having a car that is off be able to be started by a 2 year old that does not have the key sounds like a problem to me.
But do we know the 2 year old didn't have the key? I read the article quickly, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see anything that specifically said she removed her phone from the car. Perhaps she left her purse/phone in the car while unloading her kid and other bags? That's not uncommon.
I think if you want to suggest that there should be another layer of protection for accidental shifts with these proximity/phone key set ups, I think that's a reasonable stance to take. But unless it's specifically stated in the lawsuit filing, which I did not read, we don't know where the key was.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Right, we don't know. I believe there is an extra level of protection in that there has to be weight in the seat to shift out of park.
I'm just upset about people accusing the mother of gross negligence. This seems like the type of accident that could happen to anyone. In other cars when you turn on the car there is noise that can be heard outside the car. It seems like Tesla's design might make accidents like this more likely. Again it would be nice to have all the details before people dismiss the lawsuit as fraudulent.
It’s Tesla. People like to sh#t on Tesla. Broken record at this point.
I don't think it's any more likely in a Tesla than in say the Mercedes I referenced earlier which has the same shift controls and a push button ignition. But, perhaps there should be an extra simultaneous button on the stalk for all of these set ups. I just don't think that it's a Tesla specific design problem. As for the seat, maybe her purse was in the seat and combined with any weight the child was putting on the seat was enough to trip the sensor.
I agree with you that to call it negligence or bad parenting is ridiculous. Tesla's records show the kid was in the car for less than 10 seconds prior to the acceleration. It absolutely could have happened to anyone and it likely could have happened in almost any car brand.
No, she brought the child inside and neglected to prevent him from returning to the car, opening the car door to the drivers seat, and playing around with pedals, stalks, and the wheel.
All this, based on Tesla's data regarding timeline of events and the experience of a parent to there kids ages 5, 8 and 10, most likely took place over a period of minutes, during which the mother elected not to return her child to the inside of the home or even a seat that would not control the drive function of the car.
She may have been somewhat new to the car, but she most assuredly knew exactly what was required (and not required) to put the vehicle in drive.
If you plug it in before the 2 year old gets near the driver's seat, it won't go anywhere no matter what they do...
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I looked up the Model X manual; it's the same as Model 3:
"Model X automatically shifts into Park whenever you connect a charge cable or if two or more of the following conditions are met simultaneously:
•The driver's seat belt is unbuckled.
•The occupancy sensor in the driver's seat does not detect an occupant.
•The driver's door is opened.
Note: The above conditions do not reflect a comprehensive list of reasons why Model X may automatically shift into Park and, in certain scenarios, it is possible for your vehicle to shift into Park when only one of the above conditions is true."
So, if the car behaves as intended, it seems unlikely a two-year-old would be able put the vehicle in drive; one of the following two things would have also had to happen:
1) Something heavy enough to overcome the weight requirement would have to be on the driver's seat. (This assumes a two-year-old is not heavy enough to meet the weight requirement, which I think is likely.)
2) The seat belt would have to be buckled (presumably by the child).
Not saying the described events did not happen, it is just that something must not have been working as intended, or something other than what has been speculated above (child pressed brake and pulled down on the stalk) must have occurred. Or, the Tesla weight occupancy sensor isn't using the weight to detect presence of the driver (for the driver's seat, it's possible that it is simply detecting something lightweight is in the seat and then allows driving). (Which would be a bug, since it has the capability to assess weight - that's how the car decides whether to turn on the passenger airbag or not - it seems to require greater than 75 pounds based on a recent post here asking about it - but it is true I do not know the exact weight requirement and presumably it depends on how it is distributed.)
It's presumed that the door was closed, since the Model X (with premium upgrade package) does that automatically when the brake pedal is pushed. Which seems like a child finger crush hazard, but that is a separate issue and that function can presumably be turned off (I didn't see that available in the manual, but ...shrug...).
EDIT: That being said, I can't see the weight sensor requirement being met unless something heavy was in the driver seat - not the child. The two-year-old will NOT be able to sit in the seat and press the accelerator.
So, that suggests maybe the seat belt was buckled, or there was something heavy enough in the driver's seat to overcome the required threshold (and the Tesla software may or may not have been using the "correct" threshold - or may intentionally be using the lower threshold for some reason).
Or, the car was not working as Tesla describes.
"Model X automatically shifts into Park whenever you connect a charge cable or if two or more of the following conditions are met simultaneously:
•The driver's seat belt is unbuckled.
•The occupancy sensor in the driver's seat does not detect an occupant.
•The driver's door is opened.
Note: The above conditions do not reflect a comprehensive list of reasons why Model X may automatically shift into Park and, in certain scenarios, it is possible for your vehicle to shift into Park when only one of the above conditions is true."
So, if the car behaves as intended, it seems unlikely a two-year-old would be able put the vehicle in drive; one of the following two things would have also had to happen:
1) Something heavy enough to overcome the weight requirement would have to be on the driver's seat. (This assumes a two-year-old is not heavy enough to meet the weight requirement, which I think is likely.)
2) The seat belt would have to be buckled (presumably by the child).
Not saying the described events did not happen, it is just that something must not have been working as intended, or something other than what has been speculated above (child pressed brake and pulled down on the stalk) must have occurred. Or, the Tesla weight occupancy sensor isn't using the weight to detect presence of the driver (for the driver's seat, it's possible that it is simply detecting something lightweight is in the seat and then allows driving). (Which would be a bug, since it has the capability to assess weight - that's how the car decides whether to turn on the passenger airbag or not - it seems to require greater than 75 pounds based on a recent post here asking about it - but it is true I do not know the exact weight requirement and presumably it depends on how it is distributed.)
It's presumed that the door was closed, since the Model X (with premium upgrade package) does that automatically when the brake pedal is pushed. Which seems like a child finger crush hazard, but that is a separate issue and that function can presumably be turned off (I didn't see that available in the manual, but ...shrug...).
EDIT: That being said, I can't see the weight sensor requirement being met unless something heavy was in the driver seat - not the child. The two-year-old will NOT be able to sit in the seat and press the accelerator.
So, that suggests maybe the seat belt was buckled, or there was something heavy enough in the driver's seat to overcome the required threshold (and the Tesla software may or may not have been using the "correct" threshold - or may intentionally be using the lower threshold for some reason).
Or, the car was not working as Tesla describes.
Last edited:
gnuarm
Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
Lol! That doesn't apply to most people I've ever met... no, correction, to anyone I've ever met. I don't know anyone who is perfect and has never done anything stupid. Is that what you are saying? You've never done anything stupid in your life?
I'm also a bit concerned about someone intentionally grabbing my car when I pull up somewhere with the key fob in my pocket. I believe the car is open while I'm standing outside it, but I believe the fob has to be inside and in fact there have been a couple of times when the car didn't see the fob in the right place and I had to put it next to the center console.
I don't know what happened in this case since I don't know how a 2 year old could reach the brake while pulling the shifter. But I have always felt the shifter was far to sensitive and I have accidentally bumped it with my hand knocking the car into neutral while driving. That is dangerous.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
On Model 3, you must hold in the first position for 1 second before it will shift to neutral. It is not described the same way for Model X, so it seems that according to the manual it is easier to enter neutral for Model X.
If you're really concerned about someone grabbing the car you should use PIN to drive (I think it is available on the X now?). Obviously does not prevent carjacking, but it will prevent someone from driving away with the vehicle.
gnuarm
Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I personally use it, but it annoys me due to the lagginess (takes a variable number of seconds to accept touches). So if you like to jump in your car and get going in 5 seconds it may not be for you.
Glamisduner
Active Member
Kant.Ing
Member
Family Sues Tesla After Model X Pinned Pregnant Mother In Garage, Broke Her Bones
It looks like the left side FWD was open when the car was accelerated into the garage (then the door damaged). So again for safety reason or being a part of the child lock feature, they should disable Drive mode when the FWD is open.
It looks like the left side FWD was open when the car was accelerated into the garage (then the door damaged). So again for safety reason or being a part of the child lock feature, they should disable Drive mode when the FWD is open.
Glamisduner
Active Member
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Very tragic, however I have a hard time seeing how a two year old could push the brake, push the throttle, activate the seat weight sensor, put the car in drive then floor the throttle.
Agree the Mom was major at fault for not securing the toddler in a child seat, mounted security in one of the back seats as recommended.
Agree the Mom was major at fault for not securing the toddler in a child seat, mounted security in one of the back seats as recommended.
Similar threads
