gnuarm
Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
Are those his initials? Why not call him "the perp"?
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Model X with child in drivers seat allegedly injures woman
- Thread starter Neon001
- Start date
Are those his initials? Why not call him "the perp"?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
That is exactly what I thought too. But it only does it when you drift (creep) forward. I have creep mode on. If you press the accelerator, rather than allowing the car to creep, it does not go into park. I was able to move 15 feet forward with no difficulty.
All seems quite unsafe. I would be fine with it going automatically into park (and more importantly, refusing to enter drive) with a much broader set of conditions....like the ones Tesla claims in the Owner's Manual.
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SammichLover
Banned
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Does make some sense. And here I was, thinking that Creep mode was slightly safer.
Sounds like we need to know whether this Model X had Creep mode on. If they had Creep mode on, it's obviously the mom's fault, right? They should have known to not use archaic creep and to use PIN to drive. What is the world coming to!?! /sarcasm /questionablehumor
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SammichLover
Banned
I wouldn’t know, I drive an eee-vee, gramps.Does make some sense. And here I was, thinking that Creep mode was slightly safer.
A key should never be left in a car that is accessible to an unsupervised toddler. A car should never be made accessible to an unsupervised toddler. Aren't those similar rules to a gun should never be outside a safe? Additionally, don't safes and gun locks require keys to operate? There is no difference. Carelessness with any item combined with the lack of any personal responsibility always ends with the same I'm a victim story.
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Treetop235
Member
Exactly.. I don't own a model S, but have a model 3. A child could not move my car. Maybe two children, one to push the brake peddle, the other to put the car in drive, and then the first child would need to release the brake and push the accelerator. My Model 3 won't move unless on a hill, or accelerator is pushed. No creep mode. No older card require anything, and if running you can just put them into drive, so a child could definitely drive the car just by moving a column shift lever. This has nothing to do with Tesla.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
You are wrong. Someone call CPS on this guy ^^^
A key is not required to be in the car, the car does not have to be turned on, and weight does not have to be in the seat. It sounds like you are not properly securing your car.
This does not seem to be the case in other manufacturer's "keyless" systems.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Sounds like you might not have been following along. You should put your vehicle in creep mode and try it! Do it with the phone outside the car (close by of course). I was surprised at the results (they directly contradict a lot of what Tesla says in the Owner's Manual)! Or perhaps we should call CPS on all parents who use their cars in creep mode? Shame on them?
Do perform any testing in a safe location, of course. No need to crash into anything.
Treetop235
Member
Ummmm NO No creep mode on mine thank you. And my point is you have to push the brake in my Tesla or it won't go anywhere....
And do what outside my car with my phone? You mean Summon? Yes, has nothing to do with whether or not a child (2 year old) can get in my Tesla and get it to go anywhere.
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Treetop235
Member
Tesla requires the brake peddle to be pressed before the car will go into drive.
Attachments
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Yes and apparently a 2 year old can do this.
It really sounds like you might not be properly securing your Model 3. Watch out or people in this thread will call CPS on you.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Leave your phone outside your car, get in, and start your car. Do it with the door open, your seat belt off, and your weight not on the driver's seat. It'll start and go just fine (if you are in creep mode and you press the accelerator). That was my experience. Don't hurt yourself (or your car); this is a very dangerous test.
Yes, this is not that difficult for a bold and rebellious 2-year-old; it has been discussed earlier.
Tesla peddles pedals, not peddles.
Treetop235
Member
Noted. Bad spelling. My point was just that many cars could have this issue. Either way, sad that someone was injured.Leave your phone outside your car, get in, and start your car. Do it with the door open, your seat belt off, and your weight not on the driver's seat. It'll start and go just fine (if you are in creep mode and you press the accelerator). That was my experience. Don't hurt yourself (or your car); this is a very dangerous test.
Yes, this is not that difficult for a bold and rebellious 2-year-old; it has been discussed earlier.
Tesla peddles pedals, not peddles.
Treetop235
Member
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
First, the fact that someone was injured is very sad indeed. All car companies should make every effort to put in robust interlocks which adequately balance safety and convenience.
Second, regarding other cars: My pushbutton start vehicles (I have three of them) WILL NOT START if the key is not IN the vehicle. They will not start, for example, if the key is in the garage, but not in the car. This is not the case with the Tesla Model 3.
Regarding the other interlocks, if they were implemented as Tesla SAYS they are in the Owner's Manual, it is quite possible this accident would not have happened (we do not have enough information to know).
I would recommend strongly against allowing 2 year olds anywhere near your vehicle if you use the phone as a key, and you do not use PIN to drive. I did not realize this was a significant hazard until I checked the function of my vehicle today.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
They could but they don't. That's what the lawsuit is claiming and it appears to be true. There have been many incidents with older generation "keyless" systems which is why they have so many safety interlocks now.
forkee
Member
Incompetence that led to child endangerment. You don't just let a child have free range inside this kind of car. I have a 2 year old also and she sees the inside of the X as a jungle gym. Never is she allowed in the front seats unless we are parked and someone is sitting in the drivers seat. She sees the touch screen as her fire tab and would just f&ck everything up with the settings if we let her.
When we get home, before any groceries or things are removed from the car, the kids are offloaded first. Secured safely in the house and not allowed to run around the garage, driveway, or anywhere cars can run them over. Priorities, right? Same thing with loading the car after a supermarket run, kids go into car first and buckled down, then groceries. If she trusted her kid to not run out into the street, at least lock the car with the key fob. 1 (or 3) taps closes all doors, takes a second to do. If she had an ear out, she would have heard plenty of not so good sounding things, the slamming of the driver door, beeping of fwd open, proximity sensors beeping from sensing garage door sides, beeping from pressing the brake and accelerator at the same time. Let's face it, this is not a quiet car when going into the garage.
FYI you don't need to have premium package to have self closing driver door. All Xs close driver door when pressing the brake. Premium unlocks self opening door upon approach as well as front doors opening with key fob. The notes said brake was pressed which closed the driver's door, pretty much saying the driver's door was open. Easy to climb in and I could imagine the kid pressing all the buttons and pedals.
She pretty much left the car "running" and allowed her kid to run her down. Unfortunate but it's her fault. Imagine if he went into reverse into the street and ran someone over or crashed.
When we get home, before any groceries or things are removed from the car, the kids are offloaded first. Secured safely in the house and not allowed to run around the garage, driveway, or anywhere cars can run them over. Priorities, right? Same thing with loading the car after a supermarket run, kids go into car first and buckled down, then groceries. If she trusted her kid to not run out into the street, at least lock the car with the key fob. 1 (or 3) taps closes all doors, takes a second to do. If she had an ear out, she would have heard plenty of not so good sounding things, the slamming of the driver door, beeping of fwd open, proximity sensors beeping from sensing garage door sides, beeping from pressing the brake and accelerator at the same time. Let's face it, this is not a quiet car when going into the garage.
FYI you don't need to have premium package to have self closing driver door. All Xs close driver door when pressing the brake. Premium unlocks self opening door upon approach as well as front doors opening with key fob. The notes said brake was pressed which closed the driver's door, pretty much saying the driver's door was open. Easy to climb in and I could imagine the kid pressing all the buttons and pedals.
She pretty much left the car "running" and allowed her kid to run her down. Unfortunate but it's her fault. Imagine if he went into reverse into the street and ran someone over or crashed.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
"In addition, if Model X is equipped with the premium upgrades package, when you press the brake pedal, the driver's door automatically closes."
As with most things in the Owner's Manual (apparently!), this may not be true! (And anyway, based on further testing, it seems like it isn't necessary for the door to be closed to get going.)
(As a specific example, the following excerpt from the Owner's Manual appears to be false for the Model 3:
"Model 3 automatically shifts into Park whenever you connect a charge cable or if two or more of the following conditions are met simultaneously:
•The driver's seat belt is unbuckled.
•The occupancy sensor in the driver's seat does not detect an occupant.
•The driver's door is opened."
)
EDIT: Well, strictly speaking this may be true (I didn't check this specific thing, as I reconsider this). But none of these things above seem to impact whether you can shift INTO Drive from park (which is what is relevant here). (I did not check whether if you have your belt buckled, you unbuckle it and you open the driver's door, whether it goes into park from drive, as the manual says (it might).) But not sure why they would not have similar restrictions on entering drive - I guess there are situations where you might want to enter drive with the door open AND the seat belt unbuckled...but it's a tradeoff I guess. Perhaps it would be good to require a SINGLE one of these things to be true (belt buckled OR someone heavy in seat OR door closed) to go from park to drive. And with Model 3, you can shift into drive without even having the phone key in the car.
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