Model Y - Falcon Wing Doors?

[tga]

It's not the side door opening that's the problem, it's the fixed roof.

I was thinking about the door opening and the location of the hinge. I forgot about the roof panel moving out of the way with the door. The second video jonnyg posted makes that obvious.

And yes, for the record, even though I don't have my own kids, I've been ferrying around nieces and nephews for 20+ years, so I've unloaded a few sleeping kids from car seats...

I humbly retract my gimmick comment. Mea culpa. Tough crowd here!

 

[Xminus6]

I was thinking about the door opening and the location of the hinge. I forgot about the roof panel moving out of the way with the door. The second video jonnyg posted makes that obvious.

And yes, for the record, even though I don't have my own kids, I've been ferrying around nieces and nephews for 20+ years, so I've unloaded a few sleeping kids from car seats...

I humbly retract my gimmick comment. Mea culpa. Tough crowd here!

No worries. I was just trying to figure out how the roof moving wasn't an obvious benefit to lifting kids in and out. Cramped parking spaces are the worst. At least my kids can get themselves out of their seats now. They both need help buckling in.

One thought I had on the Model Y, that might be crazy, is that maybe they forego the standard front door altogether and only have on FWD on each side of the car.

 

[ohmman]

One thought I had on the Model Y, that might be crazy, is that maybe they forego the standard front door altogether and only have on FWD on each side of the car.

This has been mentioned before. Unless the car is significantly shorter than the X, I think it would create even more problems than the X doors do. They cannot open fully in many covered spaces (and currently default to "umbrella mode" if you've even passed an overhead barrier in the last 30 feet or so). My kids can duck under them, but they provide no benefit in that case for buckling kids into seat belts, and I would be pretty annoyed with having to duck into the driver's seat every time the car was in my garage.

I have friends who must use Summon with their X because the doors cannot open enough in the garage for children to enter or exit.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

As I said upthread, a lot of X owners love the way the Falcon Wings make getting their kids in and out of child seats a pleasure and not a back-breaking exercise.

That is only one use case, though - child seats in a high top clearance area. Making a high volume car around that one specific case may not seem necessarily the best idea. People with kids of certain age and suitable parking area. I mean sure there is a market, but is it the best market reach? Would a SUV without them be an overall more practical/liked car?

For the rest, without the argument of easier entry to third row (already much reduced in production Model X, not as easy as prototype) it is only that one specific case against a long list of practicality negatives.

No roof racks, harder to open in many garages (offset a little by easier opening in some scenarios), limited interior height due to structure needed in roof, complexity, slower operation and cost, makes opening sunroofs harder to have, doors not practical for storage/drinks, no support from the door when exiting (elders)... Heck, the speculation is even folding seats are harder to implement due to them (seatbelt attachments), though that I expect solved eventually.

That leaves child seats (outside of many garages) and emotions. There is the coolness/halo value for the owner and Tesla to an extent. Sure, many want them, me too for that ubiqueness. At least while the idea is sort of new. And Elon's stubborness to see his vision true is what drives them for the moment at least.

Can you think of other benefits in an FWD Model Y?

Model Y may well come with falcon wings. But it is far from a proven overall good idea - let alone a lasting idea. The jury seems very much out on whether or not the falcon wings are as practical an idea as they originally sounded like.

Also, some suggesting people who dislike falcon wings should just buy a sedan/hatch ignores the many benefits SUVs in general have in the eyes of many: easier entry, safety and visibility through higher ride and interior height for example.

The market for an EV SUV with regular doors may well be larger than for one (let alone two) with FWDs - and that's the FWD dilemma overall.

 

[Xminus6]

This has been mentioned before. Unless the car is significantly shorter than the X, I think it would create even more problems than the X doors do. They cannot open fully in many covered spaces (and currently default to "umbrella mode" if you've even passed an overhead barrier in the last 30 feet or so). My kids can duck under them, but they provide no benefit in that case for buckling kids into seat belts, and I would be pretty annoyed with having to duck into the driver's seat every time the car was in my garage.

I have friends who must use Summon with their X because the doors cannot open enough in the garage for children to enter or exit.

Yeah. That's pretty ridiculous. I keep thinking I'll end up buying an X when the bugs get more sorted out and AP2 hardware is included but I'm going to play it by ear. The front door issues are the most baffling to me but I've expressed my opinion on those before.

 

[ccutrer]

That is only one use case, though - child seats in a high top clearance area. Making a high volume car around that one specific case may not seem necessarily the best idea. People with kids of certain age and suitable parking area. I mean sure there is a market, but is it the best market reach? Would a SUV without them be an overall more practical/liked car?

For the rest, without the argument of easier entry to third row (already much reduced in production Model X, not as easy as prototype) it is only that one specific case against a long list of practicality negatives.

No roof racks, harder to open in many garages (offset a little by easier opening in some scenarios), limited interior height due to structure needed in roof, complexity, slower operation and cost, makes opening sunroofs harder to have, doors not practical for storage/drinks, no support from the door when exiting (elders)... Heck, the speculation is even folding seats are harder to implement due to them (seatbelt attachments), though that I expect solved eventually.

That leaves child seats (outside of many garages) and emotions. There is the coolness/halo value for the owner and Tesla to an extent. Sure, many want them, me too for that ubiqueness. At least while the idea is sort of new. And Elon's stubborness to see his vision true is what drives them for the moment at least.

Can you think of other benefits in an FWD Model Y?

Model Y may well come with falcon wings. But it is far from a proven overall good idea - let alone a lasting idea. The jury seems very much out on whether or not the falcon wings are as practical an idea as they originally sounded like.

Also, some suggesting people who dislike falcon wings should just buy a sedan/hatch ignores the many benefits SUVs in general have in the eyes of many: easier entry, safety and visibility through higher ride and interior height for example.

The market for an EV SUV with regular doors may well be larger than for one (let alone two) with FWDs - and that's the FWD dilemma overall.

All very good points. I LOVE our FWDs, but we happen to fit the target demographic perfectly (4 kids in car seats to booster seats, garage where they (usually) open all the way). Outside of that, they're cool, but add only a small amount of usefulness, and several cons. I'd argue against FWDs on the Y, simply so that the addressable market is as large as possible for Tesla. But please don't ever remove them from the X!

 

[Lex]

The Model Y was to have only Falcon Wing side doors -- finally, a fully accessible 2-door. That was my bet on Elon's tweet.

There was so much excitement for the X at the time. Then people started using the FWDs, smashing them driving out of a home garage, bashing them in the underground garage. And of course they were a nightmare to develop. Probably tricky and expensive to make.

So my bet now is that they're never seen on a high volume production model. Maybe only the X (for now) and nowhere else, forever.

 

[tashtibet]

model Y will be awesome-Tesla has learned to make a better falcon wings-we all learn through experience-let's get excited.

 

[tga]

The Model Y was to have only Falcon Wing side doors -- finally, a fully accessible 2-door. That was my bet on Elon's tweet.

Awful idea in the snow belt. To get a snow brush out of the car with the least dumping of snow in the car in the process means storing it behind a normal door. 2 FWD's plus a hatch probably means a car full of snow to get access to the brush.

 

[Bongos3]

I hope not can't put anything on top of car....Think it was a bad idea from the start...

 

[DrivingTheFuture]

Is it just me? Or does anyone else remember when the Y was supposed to be Tesla's sports car follow up to the roadster... I was SO excited to see them develop a car from scratch as the company they are today with the resources they have now. Then all of a sudden Elon started referring to the Y as a compact SUV? And in my opinion the Model X is already close to a compact SUV... I really don't want them to make something like the size of the new mini Buick SUVs driving around...

 

[ecarfan]

does anyone else remember when the Y was supposed to be Tesla's sports car follow up to the roadster..

I recall that was simply speculation by some that the Model Y would be a new Roadster. Don't recall Tesla or Elon stating that. I could be wrong...

And to me the X is definitely not a "compact" anything: it's a huge vehicle. Not as big as a Suburban or a Hummer, but pretty big.

 

[Model 3]

Is it just me? Or does anyone else remember when the Y was supposed to be Tesla's sports car follow up to the roadster...

That is (almost) just you, yes. The few times Model Y has been mentioned has *always* been i mentioned together with Model E (earlier) or Model 3 (later). And Tesla has "always" talked about the Gen-III to at least be a sedan (Model E/3) - like the Gen-II has Model S - and a CUV - just like the Gen-II has Model X.

There has as far as I know never been mentioned a name for the new Roadster model, and I have always assumed it would be called "Tesla Roadster" or something similar. Maybe "Roadster 4.0" or "RoadsterNG" (Next Generation)

 

[Lex]

Model Y will hopefully be ... the Model 3's bits expanded to the closest thing to the original Magic Wagon minivan that is possible. A basic 7-seater hauler with sliding side "barn doors" that seem to be a thing out there or regular doors.

Oh and it will of course be fast and sexy. It's a Tesla

 

[Happychaos]

While I like the Delorean/BTTF vibe falcon wing doors channel, I'd rather have the option to just get regular ones to lower the complexity. That said, if they manage to perfect them by then (from what I read the X's doors open a little slow for some tastes) and aren't too much of an extra expense it'd be fun to have and prevent the risk of having kids slam the doors open against a nearby parked car (sort of like sliding doors).

 

[Gizmotoy]

I feel like the benefit of the Falcon wing doors is negligible compared to their utility. Even as someone with a kid in a carseat who would find them extremely useful, I struggle to determine if they're worth the complexity and reliability issues over a normal door. I have to wonder how much those added to the cost of the vehicle.

For a smaller Model 3-based version, presumably we'll lose the third row, further limiting usefulness.

They're cool, but I kind of hope they drop them.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Given the slight sobering up of Elon and Tesla in the wake of the Model X and in the lead to the Model 3 - judging by their comments like Model X was so complex that maybe it shouldn't have been built and that for Model 3 they decided to go with the simple first (or some words to that effect) - it seems quite plausible at least to me that they'd forgo any ideas about Falcon Wings on the Model Y and just go with regular doors.

They wouldn't have to lose any face either - it is a perfectly reasonable determination to say Falcon Wings don't make as much sense without the third row (expected to be missing from Model Y) and announce Falcon Wings to remain exclusivity of the Model X. The true, public product-development test of the Falcon Wings would thus only have to come in seeing if they'll be a part of the Model X's eventual successor model, years away...

OTOH, there are reasons to the contrary too:

1) If Model Y development started and got far with Falcon Wings, before the delays, costs and feedbacks of the Model X were as evident as today, maybe it is too late to make such changes
2) The comments about going with a simple Model 3 first could equally refer to a plan to do a more complex Model Y (with Falcon Wings) later, especially if Model Y were to be seen as a bit more of halo model instead of a volume model
3) Elon being as stubborn/visionary as he is, certainly he could drive a Falcon Wing Model Y to completion (assuming no catastrophic company failure)

Finally, Model Y could have been designed from the get-go with some new development of the Falcon Wing idea that is not directly comparable to the pros and cons of the Model X Falcon Wings. I made a bit far out concept here Fictional Concept: Sliding "Falcon Wings" for Model Y - but there could be more reasonable developments as well.