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Model Y LR Range Reduced?

Stevo75

New Member
Aug 23, 2021
1
0
Belmont, MA
I have 2021 Model Y LR that I purchased last December. It now has about 14,000 miles on it. The published range for this car is 326 miles. I noticed recently that when I charge the battery to 100%, the range is shown as 305 miles (94% of the advertised range). I know the car never really gets the full rated range due to weather, weight, hills, and even tricks Tesla does with the EPA estimates, but I recall that when the car was new the gauge would say my range was 326 miles at 100% charge. A Better Route Planner says that my battery has no degradation and has a 75.3 kWh capacity. The calibrated reference consumption is 282 Wh/mi.

We regularly drive to my parent's house, which is a hilly 200 mile drive through NH & VT that we could do without a problem last winter when the car was new. Now this summer if the battery is anywhere less than 90% when we leave, the car will tell us that we will need to stop to charge along the way.

Does anyone know if Tesla has changed the way it calculates range? Is it possible that the car is limiting the min/max charge to improve the battery's lifetime? Or is it possible the battery has degraded and ABRP hasn't detected it yet?
 

73Bruin

Member
Nov 7, 2020
231
130
Torrance, CA
Here is one method: Calculating Your Battery's Estimated Capacity Using the Car's Energy Screen

Once you have the estimated usable battery capacity you can divide the battery capacity by your lifetime or expect Wh/mi (in kW) to get the estimated range. Example: 70kWh / 0.270kWh/mi = 259 miles estimated range

Here is another method:

Set the Tesla Display settings in the vehicle to display Estimated Range instead of Charge %.

Start charging the Tesla.

Using the Tesla app go to the Charging Settings and slide the maximum charge limit all of the way to the right. The Tesla App will briefly display the estimated range when 100% charged.

(Don't forget to lower the maximum charging limit to your normal setting. Change the Tesla Display setting to display % of charge if that is your preferred battery indicator display.)
Thank you. Since I rarely go over 80% state of charge, I used the Tesla App settings method (on my phone). When I move the slider to 100%, it shows 311 miles of total range. The MY (vin 85xxx) came with an EPA range of 326 miles. That represents a loss of 4.6% of the range after 8 months and 3325 miles which seems reasonable based upon what others have reported.
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,719
12,410
Riverside Co. CA
My VIN 88xxx shows similar loss. jcanoe is right, this is normal and has been documented several hundred times in this forum.

There, fixed it for you, lol

In case anyone thinks I am joking about that, here is a 131 PAGE (not posts, pages) thread in the model 3 section that is on this same basic topic:


The cars have the same battery, so its the same discussion.
 
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mark95476

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
1,817
1,388
Bay Area CA
OG Roadster: My range has dropped.... Prob hundreds of threads over years.
Model S: My range has dropped.... Prob thousands of threads over years.
Model X: My range has dropped.... Prob thousands of threads over years.
Model 3: My range has dropped.... Prob thousands of threads over years, including that monster 131 page one.
Model Y: MY range has dropped.... Hundreds of threads over 1.5 years.

It's so easy to search/Google things, yet these new first time posters register on TMC to pose the same concern or question that have already been answered thousands of times. ;)

There, fixed it for you, lol

In case anyone thinks I am joking about that, here is a 131 PAGE (not posts, pages) thread in the model 3 section that is on this same basic topic:


The cars have the same battery, so its the same discussion.
 
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Fourdoor

Member
May 31, 2016
960
823
United States
I have 2021 Model Y LR that I purchased last December. It now has about 14,000 miles on it. The published range for this car is 326 miles. I noticed recently that when I charge the battery to 100%, the range is shown as 305 miles (94% of the advertised range). I know the car never really gets the full rated range due to weather, weight, hills, and even tricks Tesla does with the EPA estimates, but I recall that when the car was new the gauge would say my range was 326 miles at 100% charge. A Better Route Planner says that my battery has no degradation and has a 75.3 kWh capacity. The calibrated reference consumption is 282 Wh/mi.

We regularly drive to my parent's house, which is a hilly 200 mile drive through NH & VT that we could do without a problem last winter when the car was new. Now this summer if the battery is anywhere less than 90% when we leave, the car will tell us that we will need to stop to charge along the way.

Does anyone know if Tesla has changed the way it calculates range? Is it possible that the car is limiting the min/max charge to improve the battery's lifetime? Or is it possible the battery has degraded and ABRP hasn't detected it yet?

I am early on in the ownership experience, and with low miles on the car ABRP said I had negative 8% degradation (8% more than rated capacity). If you are showing zero percent degradation, then you have probably lost a significant amount of capacity from when the car was new. The degradation rate should slow down significantly from here on out.

You also may be suffering from the BMS not being able to judge capacity correctly. Do you leave the car overnight with sentry mode off at various different SOC levels? If not, the calibration can get "wonky" on the BMS measurement of the battery capacity.

Keith
 
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rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
715
375
NJ
6% loss of capacity after 14k miles, 8 months is not unusual. Typically the Tesla vehicle's battery will lose the most range during the first year in service, then less loss in subsequent years.
This may be absolutely correct regarding aging of battery capacity, but if I'm understanding the OP's question correctly he has observed no measured decrease in battery capacity, but expected range has decreased. I only mention this because it sounds like there is some confusion between capacity and range in some of the comments. Capacity is a property of the battery, and specifies the total amount of energy it can hold (i.e., kWh). Expected range is a prediction or "best guess" of how far the car can drive using that capacity (i.e., miles).

In order to convert capacity to expected range we need a scale factor to tell us how many miles we expect to be able to drive for each unit of energy consumed, (i.e. miles/kWh), and this scale factor can vary.

I don't know for sure, but I suspect Tesla estimates this factor using an adaptive formula that is continuously updated based on driving style, conditions, and history, and the scale factor is therefore different for every car and driver. If the OP's expected range is decreasing I would think this is due to his driving conditions being more demanding than whatever (ideal) default conditions were used in the initial expected range calculation, i.e., more hills or acceleration than Elon used when he came up with his advertised expected range ;)

Fortunately, the Tesla Energy screen allows us to see the car's short term estimates of Wh/mile for 5, 10, and 30 miles, which is great info to have and allows us to estimate the battery's capacity as explained on the link posted previously. Note that miles/kWh = 1000/(Wh/mile).
 
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Teslitored

Member
Jul 9, 2021
101
26
USA
Thank you. Since I rarely go over 80% state of charge, I used the Tesla App settings method (on my phone). When I move the slider to 100%, it shows 311 miles of total range. The MY (vin 85xxx) came with an EPA range of 326 miles. That represents a loss of 4.6% of the range after 8 months and 3325 miles which seems reasonable based upon what others have reported.
Just a question, when you charge it to 80% state of charge, do you charge 80% of original capacity (326 miles) or 80% of the new capacity (311 miles ) ???
 
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jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
3,417
3,465
Maryland
When you charge to 80% it is 80% of whatever the Tesla's battery management system considers to be the current capacity of the battery. Capacity is measured in kWh. Range is measured in miles or kilometers. Get out of the habit of looking at the range since range can be impacted by many variables including speed, temperature and road conditions. Percent state of charge (%SOC) is a much more consistent measure of the state of the battery. (You can change the battery status indicator to display % SOC under Display Settings.)
 
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73Bruin

Member
Nov 7, 2020
231
130
Torrance, CA
Just a question, when you charge it to 80% state of charge, do you charge 80% of original capacity (326 miles) or 80% of the new capacity (311 miles ) ???
I use the slider and the indicator lines to set the charging goal so whatever that means. But I don't do it that often. Most of the time I set the charging goal on the phone app to 240 miles.
 
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Fourdoor

Member
May 31, 2016
960
823
United States
This may be absolutely correct regarding aging of battery capacity, but if I'm understanding the OP's question correctly he has observed no measured decrease in battery capacity, but expected range has decreased. I only mention this because it sounds like there is some confusion between capacity and range in some of the comments. Capacity is a property of the battery, and specifies the total amount of energy it can hold (i.e., kWh). Expected range is a prediction or "best guess" of how far the car can drive using that capacity (i.e., miles).

The OP said that at 14,000 miles ABRP is showing zero for degradation. I was saying that if he had checked it at 1,000 miles it may have shown negative degradation, like my battery. Thus, his capacity actually has degraded, (based on the noticeable loss of range on road trips) but his starting point was higher than ABRP expected so it is not showing it as degradation.

Even with negative degradation the extra range doesn't show up in the cars display if you have it set to miles instead of percent, it just shows you have the max until your battery degrades enough that you finally go below that max rating.

Keith
 
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TomServo

Active Member
Apr 10, 2014
1,587
1,041
Belleville IL
Here is one method: Calculating Your Battery's Estimated Capacity Using the Car's Energy Screen

Once you have the estimated usable battery capacity you can divide the battery capacity by your lifetime or expect Wh/mi (in kW) to get the estimated range. Example: 70kWh / 0.270kWh/mi = 259 miles estimated range

Here is another method:

Set the Tesla Display settings in the vehicle to display Estimated Range instead of Charge %.

Start charging the Tesla.

Using the Tesla app go to the Charging Settings and slide the maximum charge limit all of the way to the right. The Tesla App will briefly display the estimated range when 100% charged.

(Don't forget to lower the maximum charging limit to your normal setting. Change the Tesla Display setting to display % of charge if that is your preferred battery indicator display.)
I just calculated my batteries health using the Energy screen formula you linked to, it resulted in 72.14 kW yet the cars battery will display no more than 300 miles and Tesla Stats has me trending down to about 295 miles. Isn’t new 72.5 kW? Confused
 
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jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
3,417
3,465
Maryland
I just calculated my batteries health using the Energy screen formula you linked to, it resulted in 72.14 kW yet the cars battery will display no more than 300 miles and Tesla Stats has me trending down to about 295 miles. Isn’t new 72.5 kW? Confused
Capacity is measured in kilowatt hour (kWh), not kilowatt (kW); 72.5 kWh when new would be the usable capacity expected for a Long Range Model Y (before the battery capacity was increased from 77kWh to 82kWH).
 
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Fourdoor

Member
May 31, 2016
960
823
United States
I just calculated my batteries health using the Energy screen formula you linked to, it resulted in 72.14 kW yet the cars battery will display no more than 300 miles and Tesla Stats has me trending down to about 295 miles. Isn’t new 72.5 kW? Confused
Mine was 82 kWh total capacity new, 78 kWh usable capacity new.

Keith
 
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MY-Y

Active Member
Mar 4, 2020
1,074
1,205
MD
The energy screen estimate aligns with the BMS (read through scanmytesla). It estimates total capacity, not available capacity. 300 miles is around 71.6 kWh (326/300)*77.8.
 
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Dennisis

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Feb 11, 2020
687
624
Tucson
My VIN is 10XXX; the reduced capacity and range ~260 miles does not limit my use or enjoyment of my Model Y. I am confident I can travel using the Supercharger network, stopping every 2 to 3 hours to take a break and charge.
So I got my MY AWD LR June of last year with a rated range of 316. As I understand it I should consider my real rated range to have started at around 300 with the 20 inch wheels correct? Given the larger wheel range hit? That would make my current rated range of 270 actually a 10% reduction after 11000 miles would it not?
 
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jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
3,417
3,465
Maryland
So I got my MY AWD LR June of last year with a rated range of 316. As I understand it I should consider my real rated range to have started at around 300 with the 20 inch wheels correct? Given the larger wheel range hit? That would make my current rated range of 270 actually a 10% reduction after 11000 miles would it not?
The range reduction when using the 20" Induction wheels versus the 19" Gemini wheels varies with speed. At a constant 70 MPH the estimated efficiency loss is ~6%, theoretically the range when new would have been 306 miles. Here is a chart:

Range loss with the different wheel options
 
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Dennisis

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Feb 11, 2020
687
624
Tucson
The range reduction when using the 20" Induction wheels versus the 19" Gemini wheels varies with speed. At a constant 70 MPH the estimated efficiency loss is ~6%, theoretically the range when new would have been 306 miles. Here is a chart:

Range loss with the different wheel options
Thanks I couldn’t find where anyone discussed it but it’s obviously a factor, though hard to quantify exactly. But it shows those with 20’s vs 19’s are actually experiencing less actual rated range loss than they may calculate because they never had the full rated range to begin with.
 
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jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
3,417
3,465
Maryland
Thanks I couldn’t find where anyone discussed it but it’s obviously a factor, though hard to quantify exactly. But it shows those with 20’s vs 19’s are actually experiencing less actual rated range loss than they may calculate because they never had the full rated range to begin with.
Also, when I purchased my Model Y in June 2020 I believe Tesla was still using the 316 mile EPA range estimate.
 
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rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
715
375
NJ
The range reduction when using the 20" Induction wheels versus the 19" Gemini wheels varies with speed. At a constant 70 MPH the estimated efficiency loss is ~6%, theoretically the range when new would have been 306 miles. Here is a chart:

Range loss with the different wheel options
Interesting. I will read this thread more fully later. I am curious to find out how wheel size influences range. It sounds like it has an effect on air drag. Also they mention that this is at constant speeds, and if the rotational inertia were considered the larger heavier wheels would be even less efficient.
 
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