Or off the forum. With the media hungry for any instance of Tesla failures, I can only assume there have not been any significant number of them.
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Model Year 2024 Model Y
- Thread starter Vistan
- Start date
They warranty that drive unit for 8 years / 100k miles. I usually think something is about as robust as its warranty. I’d expect very few early failures.
zoomer0056
Active Member
zoomer0056
Active Member
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
What's interesting is that five years have passed and they still don't offer module-level repair/replacement for any of their cars, you can only get new or remanufactured pack replacement (entire battery). The longevity comment about 1500 cycles is just referring to mileage (ie. cycle) related degradation failure, just like the longevity statements in their sustainability reports - to their credit, the BMS and thermal management in even the oldest Model S batteries have shown excellent control over capacity degradation. What none of these statements cover is then the other sorts of failure than then can cause a cell, module, or pack to fail, such as as single cell failure, overly-imbalanced cells within a module, failure of other electronics within the pack but outside the modules, water ingress into the pack seals - all of which cause a module or pack to fail long before these age or cycle-related "lifetimes".
A few of these failure modes could be more cheaply fixed if they did offer module-level repair/replacement, rather than pack replacement, but they don't. And the few third-parties that have sprung up, some can address module-level issues, but mostly by offering you a slightly cheaper pack replacement, not fixing your bad module. So far very unlike the old Prius ecosystem, their HV packs were smaller, but a cottage industry of third-party services sprung up because they could easily open up the packs and replace bad modules, rebuild packs with mix and match used modules, etc
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
It’s not surprising at all, even Elon cant change chemistry. Module/cell-level replacements just don’t work.
YWe're looking at a current 2024 Model Y and wanting the FSD from our 2020Model 3 to transfer over. So have to have delivered by thisMarch 31.
Then given they already had 7 years of experience with the Model S packs by then, plus had already both designed and started shipping the Model 3 packs understanding what the serviceability of the packs was, he shouldn't have made the outright statement in 2019 about module-level servicing and estimated pricing of such...
I am somewhat surprised as well given my history with Prius 3rd-party repair ecosystem. By 2011 when I had the HV battery pre-emptively replaced outside of warranty in my 2002, there were not only a couple of dedicated Prius/hybrid repair garages nearby, but also starting to be some small businesses just doing the HV battery rebuilds/re-sell so the garages didn't have to do it themselves. I was just having dinner with an old friend last weekend, he remembered and asked me whether it was worth pre-emptively doing same on his 2012 Prius, which he's still driving and I think is a few years out of the 10-year HV battery warranty.
But when I think back and dig into it, maybe it shouldn't be as surprising as we thought. You're right that currently there's both much more annual sales volume of Tesla than Prius' fading star, and more cars on the road than Prius at similar age in the life cycle - but since most of those Tesla were put on the road in just the last two years, maybe at the equivalent life cycle age around 2021-22, maybe there were about the same number of Tesla on the road as Prius in 2011 - perhaps around 1.1 million?
But more telling is breaking down how many were out of warranty on both whole car and on the battery/powertrain. The Prius sales ramp was more steady, and the warranties shorter and less comprehensive, so it will take a few more years before as many Tesla cars are out of bumper-to-bumper warranty and also battery/powertrain warranty. Perhaps more importantly:
-I remember the bread-and-butter of the dedicated Prius shop I went to in 2011 was not regular owners, but fleet and individual taxi drivers. It was a popular and economical taxi, and while I see a few Tesla used as Uber's now I still see more young Prius used as Uber's than young Tesla's - it's just the economics
-a lot of the taxi repairs being done on Prius were not the HV battery, but just the rest of the car stuff that wears out like any other car - suspension, radiator, electrical. Plus you had the emissions and gas part of the powertrain that Tesla's don't have, and those I think were not under the long battery warranty, and got wear and tear.
-even on the battery, I think early Prius had an 8-yr/100K HV battery warranty, which taxi drivers were quick to blow through that 100K limit; whereas early Tesla had an 8 yr/unlimited miles HV warranty. So really only the tiny number of 2012-2015 Tesla are even coming out of battery warranty, could have been 5X number of Prius out of HV battery warranty by 2011 (just guessing). (So did Tesla hinder things by being so generous on the mileage warranty?)
-and then we get to the fact that no 3rd parties are able to rebuild or repair a Tesla battery, vs the Prius one being so easy to do so, you've taken the most valuable repair for 3rd parties out of the equation.
-and for non-battery parts, hearing horror stories about even insurance repair shops having challenges getting repair parts from Tesla, vs Toyota has a huge and mature supply chain for 3rd parties to order and obtain repair parts, both OEM and 3rd-party manufactured...
So a bunch of those differences start tilting volume numbers towards Tesla in a few more years, on both the battery and end-to-end warranties, so maybe the cottage industry will start showing up in a few more years, we just need to be patient...
FMinMI
Member
Absolutely. When people / car places like Carvana look at vehicle value, all that matters is the titled year, not the month it was built in. If you buy a 2023, it has already depreciated an addition year even if it was built 12/31/2023.
FMinMI
Member
I just placed an order today from inventory with a $4K discount after they confirmed it was a 2024. Austin build with a VIN ending with 2245XX. I assume you already have yours. Can you tell me how good the Austin build was? Also, does your door sticker show a Jan 2024 build date and if so, can you tell me if my VIN is above yours? Trying to figure out 'how old' it is.
Thanks.
jddaigle
Member
Something to keep in mind is that the vast majority of Prius packs out there are still NiMH. The degradation curve for a well-designed Lithium pack is much better. I'd be surprised if the Lithium-based Prius packs (and by extension the mature Teslas designs in recent cars) needed nearly as much out-of-warranty work as the NiMH ones did. But when they do I also have no doubt there will be enterprising companies ready to take the challenge on.
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