Move Over Tesla. Here Comes Cadillac.

[AnxietyRanger]

another one who doesn`t get what a massive difference the fact makes, that audi takes RESPONSIBILITY during the time the system is active.

Yeah, getting to that will be a really big deal.

Too bad at the moment it seems to be an either-or kind of situation. Audi will hopefully get the Level 3 system out in some markets within 2018, but even then those cars won't have (unless something changes) high-speed Level 2... so you get either low-speed Level 3, which is great for that scenario, but if you want higher-speed Level 2 also, which is much better than nothing for the higher-speed scenario, you'll have to go to another car... which then won't have Level 3 low-speed...

I guess we're still in this limbo for 2018 at least, unless someone surprises...

 

[bjornb]

Some people fall asleep with their eyes open. Does Super Cruise account for that?

Can it be tricked with these?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Horror-Shop-Wide-Awake-Glasses/dp/B006O8NLIK

 

[oktane]

Here's two. I saw a blue car 15 times in the past two days but I couldn't snap a photo safely until my lunch jaunt. Maybe something is wrong with your AP2 besides your negative perception? I've seen them for months and months but you claim never. Seems impossible.

Strange. I have also never seen a blue car

 

[daktari]

I saw a blue car for a few seconds yesterday. Ap2 is more reluctant and more unsure following a blue car than its AP1 sibling atm.
Happens to mine if tracking a car in slower speeds and lane markers disappear.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Strange. I have also never seen a blue car

This just proves my Bias Theory.

Nobody with a negative Tesla bias has seen a Blue Car.

 

[d21mike]

Yeah, getting to that will be a really big deal.

Too bad at the moment it seems to be an either-or kind of situation. Audi will hopefully get the Level 3 system out in some markets within 2018, but even then those cars won't have (unless something changes) high-speed Level 2... so you get either low-speed Level 3, which is great for that scenario, but if you want higher-speed Level 2 also, which is much better than nothing for the higher-speed scenario, you'll have to go to another car... which then won't have Level 3 low-speed...

I guess we're still in this limbo for 2018 at least, unless someone surprises...

Exactly my point that the other poster does not understand. I want a car NOW. Not in 2019. And Level 3 at < 37 miles per hour does very little for me over what I get with Tesla at that speed. I was not saying Level 3 is bad. Just that if you want a car now you have to look at what is available now and not just specs for some future date. And if you look at what Tesla is doing now with a delivered product I think it is reasonable to think in 2019 Tesla will have more capability then it has now. But I am pretty happy with the current state of Tesla EAP.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Exactly my point that the other poster does not understand. I want a car NOW. Not in 2019. And Level 3 at < 37 miles per hour does very little for me over what I get with Tesla at that speed. I was not saying Level 3 is bad. Just that if you want a car now you have to look at what is available now and not just specs for some future date. And if you look at what Tesla is doing now with a delivered product I think it is reasonable to think in 2019 Tesla will have more capability then it has now. But I am pretty happy with the current state of Tesla EAP.

Yep, you get more high-speed auto-steering with a Tesla than Audi. OTOH, with Audi you get certain other nice aides (e.g. 3D 360 view). So, trade-offs...

I too am sticking with my AP2, but just noting that unfortunately it is not all that simple depending on what features one values...

 

[stopcrazypp]

Some people fall asleep with their eyes open. Does Super Cruise account for that?

You are probably half joking, but it's still an interesting question. The related question is if it can detect a drowsy or drunk driver.

 

[lunitiks]

You ain't learned nothing 'bout me @stopcrazypp. I'm never joking.

 

[croman]

You are probably half joking, but it's still an interesting question. The related question is if it can detect a drowsy or drunk driver.

I bet GM plays it like Tesla and keeps the onus on the driver to avoid liability for many of the inebriated states that drivers consider using tech to avoid bad outcomes (but bad outcomes are hard to prevent). I think a strong argument could be made that GM would invite lawsuits (and potentially liability) by creating features to detect drunk or tired driving. Instead, I bet they just say don't use it in those conditions and stay the hell out of that potential quagmire.

 

[d21mike]

I bet GM plays it like Tesla and keeps the onus on the driver to avoid liability for many of the inebriated states that drivers consider using tech to avoid bad outcomes (but bad outcomes are hard to prevent). I think a strong argument could be made that GM would invite lawsuits (and potentially liability) by creating features to detect drunk or tired driving. Instead, I bet they just say don't use it in those conditions and stay the hell out of that potential quagmire.

And of course it does not work from the bar to the freeway. And on the freeway it only works up to 37 mph. So not really sure it would help much.

 

[calisnow]

Betting the Caddy won't be slamming on the brakes at overpasses and drifting out of its lane...

Cadillac takes aim at Tesla’s Autopilot with ‘hands-free’ Super Cruise technology, available this fall

Annnndddd - six months later we have the following situation:

1 - Super Cruise still has not arrived in dealerships and just received a rather depressing performance and usability review from a media outlet that tested it on LA's challenging (read - crappily marked) freeways for several days.

2 - Tesla's AP2 has continued to evolve and improve in realtime - as of course we all knew it would. Why anyone thought 6 months ago that the AP2 of late October would behave like the AP2 of April is a head scratcher. Since your original post AP2 has gone through 7-8 updates, two neural net files, accumulated millions more miles, uploaded tons of video for reinforcement learning - and as we all know has dramatically improved its performance (as of course we thought it would) in the last 14 days alone.

I'm not hating on GM - I want them, their customers, their workers and their shareholders to prosper. But the fact is they've worked on SC for years - both independently and after acquiring Cruise Automation - and yet it appears that they have shipped a gimped product with serious usability and performance shortcomings. Hopefully they have built in an upgrade path where owners can at least go to dealers to receive updated software files that perform better in poorly marked conditions as GM continues to refine the software. It would be nuts, if after 5 years of Tesla's OTA update system GM did NOT build in a a software upgrade path for Super Cruise - I imagine they did. Anyone have confirmation?

Meanwhile AP2 is a pleasure, getting better by the week and has nowhere to go but up. Be happy with your car - you chose well!

 

[TaoJones]

Annnndddd - six months later we have the following situation:

1 - Super Cruise still has not arrived in dealerships and just received a rather depressing performance and usability review from a media outlet that tested it on LA's challenging (read - crappily marked) freeways for several days.

2 - Tesla's AP2 has continued to evolve and improve in realtime - as of course we all knew it would. Why anyone thought 6 months ago that the AP2 of late October would behave like the AP2 of April is a head scratcher. Since your original post AP2 has gone through 7-8 updates, two neural net files, accumulated millions more miles, uploaded tons of video for reinforcement learning - and as we all know has dramatically improved its performance (as of course we thought it would) in the last 14 days alone.

I'm not hating on GM - I want them, their customers, their workers and their shareholders to prosper. But the fact is they've worked on SC for years - both independently and after acquiring Cruise Automation - and yet it appears that they have shipped a gimped product with serious usability and performance shortcomings. Hopefully they have built in an upgrade path where owners can at least go to dealers to receive updated software files that perform better in poorly marked conditions.

Meanwhile AP2 is a pleasure, getting better by the week and has nowhere to go but up. Be happy with your car - you chose well!

I agree that AP2 has nowhere to go but up.

It’s a shame that the hype machine that is GM will continue to confuse the public.

Just the other day, a brand new Bolt owner pulled into a SpaceX SC stall because the night before, his salesperson said he could charge anywhere.

That was almost as comical as it was sad.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

That was almost as comical as it was sad.

I thought you were talking about the hype machine that is EAP+FSD...

Instead we're praising AP2 as less than AP1 parity in October 2017 after taking $8000 from customers for enhanced features that were supposed to be here months ago... (Enhanced AP in December 2016 and FSD differentiating features in April-July 2017.)

It is hard to discuss these things when biases are so thick that one guy gets a pass for something the other guys does not.

 

[setoKaiba]

Annnndddd - six months later we have the following situation:

1 - Super Cruise still has not arrived in dealerships and just received a rather depressing performance and usability review from a media outlet that tested it on LA's challenging (read - crappily marked) freeways for several days.

2 - Tesla's AP2 has continued to evolve and improve in realtime - as of course we all knew it would. Why anyone thought 6 months ago that the AP2 of late October would behave like the AP2 of April is a head scratcher. Since your original post AP2 has gone through 7-8 updates, two neural net files, accumulated millions more miles, uploaded tons of video for reinforcement learning - and as we all know has dramatically improved its performance (as of course we thought it would) in the last 14 days alone.

I'm not hating on GM - I want them, their customers, their workers and their shareholders to prosper. But the fact is they've worked on SC for years - both independently and after acquiring Cruise Automation - and yet it appears that they have shipped a gimped product with serious usability and performance shortcomings. Hopefully they have built in an upgrade path where owners can at least go to dealers to receive updated software files that perform better in poorly marked conditions as GM continues to refine the software. It would be nuts, if after 5 years of Tesla's OTA update system GM did NOT build in a a software upgrade path for Super Cruise - I imagine they did. Anyone have confirmation?

Meanwhile AP2 is a pleasure, getting better by the week and has nowhere to go but up. Be happy with your car - you chose well!

Looks like People has been getting deliveries of their Super Cruise equipped Cadillac CT6 since October.

Did anybody get CT6 with Super Cruise?

According to the people at Bussiness Insider, Supercruise outperformed Autopilit.

super cruise is so good at the one thing it does well that im going to give it to cadillac with some caveats

We tried Tesla Autopilot and Cadillac Super Cruise in the same week — here's what it was like

 

[malcolm]

According to the people at Bussiness Insider, Supercruise outperformed Autopilit

The Business Insider article is disingenuous.

The headline suggests that they tested both a Tesla and the new Caddy the same week but there seems to be nothing to correct the following:

When I tried Autopilot last year in a Model S P90D, I noticed that the system tackles curves by moving through them in short, straight lines, as it's micro-plotting a trajectory.

And all the Tesla photos are from their review last year.

If you keep within pre-lidar mapped roads you would expect the cadillac to behave - however new owners on the cadillacOwners.com site linked to above report mixed results on highways

 

[McRat]

I agree that AP2 has nowhere to go but up.

It’s a shame that the hype machine that is GM will continue to confuse the public.

Just the other day, a brand new Bolt owner pulled into a SpaceX SC stall because the night before, his salesperson said he could charge anywhere.

That was almost as comical as it was sad.

AP2 development:
AP2 could go 2 directions: Focus more on safety, or focus on more coverage. ie - disengage more, or disengage less. Currently AP2 cars sold today have (per website):
"Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage."

Hype:
Cadillac doesn't exactly have a Hype Machine to that extent. The CT6 is a large luxury car with very good manners and tons of safety features. They do not have a video on the web that shows that the CT6 can drive 100% of the time through city streets in full autonomous mode. Even though we do know that GM has a tremendous number of miles at this point in pure AV mode in all conditions, even terrible road layouts and congestion such as San Francisco and New York.

Read from today on web: Super Cruise – Hands-Free Driving System | Cadillac
Read from today on web, this also includes a video of the system completely functional in AV mode:

Full Self-Driving Capability
Build upon Enhanced Autopilot and order Full Self-Driving Capability on your Tesla. This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle.

All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you.

Charging:
Just the other day, there was a picture of a MS in Santa Barbara parked at a free L2 charging stall that was sponsored by Chevrolet. They did not even plug the MS in. Did their salesman tell them to block L2 spots to keep other brands from charging? Or is it just ingrained?

That was neither comical or sad. It was just anti-EV behavior from an EV owner. Serious hypocrisy and complete disregard for the environment. While this is extremely rare (I assume, but have seen it personally) it is also rare for a Bolt EV owner to try an recharge at a SuperCharger or HPWC that is correctly marked.