Move Powerwall to new house or leave installed at old house?

[HankLloydRight]

[Moderator note: The first twelve posts in this thread were split off from a different thread.]

Quick PW2 question since there are a lot of experts in this thread. We may be moving soon, and I have a new referral PW2+gateway being direct shipped to my house, which I'll just store until we move and have it installed there.

But then I'd also like to move my existing PW2 (no solar here) to the new home so I'll have two PW2s there (the house we want already has a ~10kw solar system). So what's involved in removing the PW2 unit from an existing installation? I don't need the second gateway, so would it make sense to leave all the PW2 infrastructure in place (but bypassed) minus the actual PW2 in case the new owners want to install their own PW2? Who would know how to do that right? Thanks.

 

[aesculus]

Quick PW2 question since there are a lot of experts in this thread. We may be moving soon, and I have a new referral PW2+gateway being direct shipped to my house, which I'll just store until we move and have it installed there.

But then I'd also like to move my existing PW2 (no solar here) to the new home so I'll have two PW2s there (the house we want already has a ~10kw solar system). So what's involved in removing the PW2 unit from an existing installation? I don't need the second gateway, so would it make sense to leave all the PW2 infrastructure in place (but bypassed) minus the actual PW2 in case the new owners want to install their own PW2? Who would know how to do that right? Thanks.

Technically I would think if you have no PWs then a Gateway would have nothing to measure or control so it would not be doing anything.

But I think you are setting yourself up for a major sales issue. Right now you have a feature with your battery system. If you remove it I suspect you are going to have to discount your house at a much greater value than the cost of a PW. It would not only be a negative from the missing component to a buyer but you are also going to leave the question if the system could even would work if they put on a new PW. Right now everything is working.

 

[HankLloydRight]

But I think you are setting yourself up for a major sales issue. Right now you have a feature with your battery system. If you remove it I suspect you are going to have to discount your house at a much greater value than the cost of a PW. It would not only be a negative from the missing component to a buyer but you are also going to leave the question if the system could even would work if they put on a new PW. Right now everything is working.

Oh, I get that. But I think I'm going to put in the sales listing that the PW2 is an extra cost if they want to keep it, otherwise I'm taking it with me. Trust me, in this town it's more likely a buyer would just pay extra for it than demand a "discount" for taking it out. Then I'll just buy a new one at the new place. The only sticking point is the existing one is one of the first red+signed founder's PW2 awards. I'd hate to just leave it here, even if sold to the buyers.

Technically I would think if you have no PWs then a Gateway would have nothing to measure or control so it would not be doing anything.

That's why I said to bypass the gateway, but otherwise leave it in place for future use. But what's involved in doing that?

 

[jjrandorin]

Oh, I get that. But I think I'm going to put in the sales listing that the PW2 is an extra cost if they want to keep it, otherwise I'm taking it with me. Trust me, in this town it's more likely a buyer would just pay extra for it than demand a "discount" for taking it out. Then I'll just buy a new one at the new place. The only sticking point is the existing one is one of the first red+signed founder's PW2 awards. I'd hate to just leave it here, even if sold to the buyers.



That's why I said to bypass the gateway, but otherwise leave it in place for future use. But what's involved in doing that?

IMO you would want a tesla certified electrician to come out and remove everything, not just the powerwall. From a visual perspective, even if you got it to work (which the electrician could do) it would be like someone taking their dishwasher with them, or their 6 burner stove (or saying that its extra cost).

You either want it out BEFORE you list, and no evidence it was ever there (thus no questions about "what is this disconnected hardware"?) or leave it there.

Even in a neighborhood where people might be likely to pay for it having it be " a question " or an empty unfinished spot with a bunch of disconnected equipment is not good.

Its not like any eventual buyer would be able to buy "just a powerwall" without resorting to private party sale anyway, and most people are not going to want to deal with that. Tesla is likely not going to want to sell them a powerwall with no gateway, and a third party installer is likely going to charge the same labor to install any powerwall with or without that equipment there, so you are not saving them anything.

So, either remove it all, and get a tesla certified installer to do that (which will likely be re wiring everything, so a significant labor charge), or leave it there, and increase your home price slightly and state "includes powerwall". Only real tesla fans put any value on the "signed" version of the powerwall anyway.

I have (2) regular powerwall 2s, and am considering another one, but would NOT want a red one, I would want a white one to match what I already have. Unless it has sentimental value to you, its likely better pricing the house 5k more and leaving it there. Failing that, contact a tesla authorized installer and see what they would charge to remove it. Throwing a number at the wall, I would guess it will be at least $1500.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Good points.

 

[aesculus]

Good points.

What I tried to say but @jjrandorin did a much better job.

 

[BrettS]

I think there’s definitely a precedent for paying extra to leave certain appliances or features in a home. I’ve certainly heard of people asking for something like a fancy 6 burner stove or even a washer or drier to be left and offering to pay extra for it. I suppose a powerwall is a little bit different, but I don’t think it would be too unusual to put a note in the listing that the powerwall doesn’t come with the house, but may be included for $xxxx more. However, keep in mind that they may also try to bargain for it.... “We’ll offer full price for the house, but we also want the powerwall included” or something like that.

You could always talk to your real estate agent and see what they think about removing it entirely first or just including a note.

The other thing to consider is that by the time you pay to have an electrician remove the powerwall, then pay to have it reinstalled you may be close to the cost of just buying a new powerwall anyway. Plus then you’d have the advantage of new batteries.

 

[jboy210]

Oh, I get that. But I think I'm going to put in the sales listing that the PW2 is an extra cost if they want to keep it, otherwise I'm taking it with me. Trust me, in this town it's more likely a buyer would just pay extra for it than demand a "discount" for taking it out. Then I'll just buy a new one at the new place. The only sticking point is the existing one is one of the first red+signed founder's PW2 awards. I'd hate to just leave it here, even if sold to the buyers.

I would not worry about the signature PW. Sell it and buy a new PW with new 10 year warranty. And then wrap it with Tesla Signature red material. Buy a sharpie and write "to my best friend, Hank" and forge Elon's signature. No one will know the difference and you can make up a tale you can tell.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I think there’s definitely a precedent for paying extra to leave certain appliances or features in a home. I’ve certainly heard of people asking for something like a fancy 6 burner stove or even a washer or drier to be left and offering to pay extra for it. I suppose a powerwall is a little bit different, but I don’t think it would be too unusual to put a note in the listing that the powerwall doesn’t come with the house, but may be included for $xxxx more. However, keep in mind that they may also try to bargain for it.... “We’ll offer full price for the house, but we also want the powerwall included” or something like that.

You could always talk to your real estate agent and see what they think about removing it entirely first or just including a note.

Thanks, that's probably the route I'll take (including a listing note).

The other thing to consider is that by the time you pay to have an electrician remove the powerwall, then pay to have it reinstalled you may be close to the cost of just buying a new powerwall anyway. Plus then you’d have the advantage of new batteries.

Very true. Since I'm already going to have to pay to have the second PW2+gateway installed at the new location, I can probably just buy a second PW from Tesla or anyone selling one they've already had drop-shipped.

Side note: The house we're looking at (our first choice) already has solar. 31 panels installed in 2016. What do you think the output of that system is? Here's a close up shot of the panels:

 

[Krash]

If the panels were rectangular I would have said 7kW. That is 225W times 31. I see some 210W 1m square panels online today so my new guess is 160W times 31 or 5kW.

By the way, what happens if your peak solar output is higher than your sustainable max PowerWall load? If you are off grid and the output climbs past max sustainable does the powerwall ramp up frequency to lower the output like it does when the battery is full?

Also, the max peak load is 2kW higher than the sustainable load. How long can the Powerwall handle peak load?

I assume that if the grid were to disconnect while the peak solar generation was above peak that the Powerwall would shut off, shutting off the carrier line for the inverter and causing the inverter to shut down generation, but that five minutes later the Powerwall would try to turn back on again.

 

[HankLloydRight]

If the panels were rectangular I would have said 7kW. That is 225W times 31

Thanks. They are all rectangular, so looks like 7kW total. It's just the angle of the photo that makes them look square. The solar lease contract says I can "buy out" the current lease as a new buyer at $4/W. So that would be $28,000. Not sure that's a good deal. I do not yet have any other details of their solar lease contract.

By the way, what happens if your peak solar output is higher than your sustainable max PowerWall load? If you are off grid and the output climbs past max sustainable does the powerwall ramp up frequency to lower the output like it does when the battery is full?

Also, the max peak load is 2kW higher than the sustainable load. How long can the Powerwall handle peak load?

I assume that if the grid were to disconnect while the peak solar generation was above peak that the Powerwall would shut off, shutting off the carrier line for the inverter and causing the inverter to shut down generation, but that five minutes later the Powerwall would try to turn back on again.

I can't answer these questions, but I'm sure others can.

 

[Krash]

...I can "buy out" the current lease as a new buyer at $4/W. So that would be $28,000. Not sure that's a good deal. .

Not a good deal. I had a panel damaged last winter. When I tracked down an old but unused replacement it was $33 for 300W wholesale. Old panels are cheap. Even cheaper for old, used panels. Of course you'd spend more on removal, shipping and reinstallation.

 

[HankLloydRight]

So just a final follow-up for this question. We listed the house with the option of buying the PW2 for $8000.

The buyers (under contract) really didn't know what the PW was all about or really anything about it. I wrote them a note explaining in detail that it was just for power outages.

They have two young boys and a girl on the way due in February. I think they offered $4k or so, and I countered with $6,500.

In the mean time, my wife and I found our new house (not the one mentioned above), and our buyers were dragging their feet on letting me know if they wanted to keep the PW. Well, I waited long enough and then just decided to take it with me to the new house -- once I took the offer off the table -- THEN they were interested because he talked to a buddy of his and realized it did have significant value, especially with a new baby in the house. Too bad. He said he might get a generator now.

I called Tesla to arrange a "move and relocate", but by then I had already placed an order for new solar panels at our new house, plus a second new PW2 referral award. So all I really needed Tesla to do was un-install the existing PW2, and I'll just hang on to it until the solar install and have that crew install everything at once.

The "regular" rate for a PW "move and relocate" is $2500, including the survey, permit, re-engineering and install at the new location. But I didn't need all of that -- I kinda threw a wrench into the standard Tesla gears. I just needed the "un-install" part.

So they only charged me $625. Sent two guys to remove the PW and restore the wiring. We left the V1 gateway in place since it was just easier and I don't need it since I'm getting a new GW2 with the second referral PW. It's just a passthrough. I then had to hire a local moving guy to move it to my new house, where it now sits in the basement, in a box, waiting for the solar install to get permitted and scheduled.

I was particularly lucky because the Tesla guys who came just happened to have the left over box and plastic packaging material from a PW they installed yesterday. So we were able to secure the PW into the box with straps for the move into the basement, protecting it very well.