Musk at Code conference 2016: Model X is quite sublime at this point.

[digicool]

After reading all the complaints in the forums over time, I still think this is a marvelous car. So much automation is very very cool. This is more of a technology packed gadget than a utility vehicle. If you are a gadget junkie like me, you will have zero regrets or will put up with a lot of issues to be resolved later via software updates. The level of automation hardware that this car has allows for a lot of smart and cool scenarios down the line with "just software" updates.
Now if I were keen about utility and utility alone, I will certainly go out and buy a Subaru or something.. or perhaps the XC90 which seems to be a popular alternative in this car's class.
My only concern with this car is the durability of the automation hardware. I hope Tesla designed them to last for the life of the car.

 

[ptsagcy]

@luca. You still haven't stated your source for your absurd 90% statement. I am 3 months and 6,000 miles in and have had no problems with the front doors.

 

[FarmerDave]

Four months and my front doors still work fine.

 

[Roentgen]

No probs with mine. And mine was also a 1st quarter production.

 

[engle]

I agree with digicool. My Jan. production X P90D has almost 5,000 miles since March 22nd. I drive it at every opportunity. I had to drive my 2014 Benz E-class a few days ago because it's a low-profile vehicle. It just felt so obsolete. I had to temporarily "unlearn" all the great Tesla features I've enjoyed for the past 10 weeks, leading to "surprises" such as:

1. Approached it and it didn't unlock itself (nor open the driver's door for me).
2. I couldn't just tell it the name of the place I needed to go to.
3. It's "COMAND" screen is so tiny!
4. Pushed the gas pedal and felt this weird acceleration lag? lol
5. Turned on "Distronic(R) Cruise Control" and realized I have to steer this thing in stop-and-go-traffic? How boring!
6. It didn't filter out pollution from other vehicles.
7. When parked it didn't engage the parking brake automatically.
8. Walked away from it and it didn't lock itself.
9. Opened the door back in my garage, smelled noxious and poisonous fumes, so I held my breath and walked into the house to preserve whatever alveoli cells I have left in my lungs.
10. Et cetera.

I enjoy discovering the new features in each software update. The latest one enabling one to close all doors and lock the X with a double press on the top of the key has great utility, along with adjusting the 2nd row seats from the touch panel.

PS. The X is a perfect fit for me. I've been fortunate to enjoy some of the latest tech my entire life: (partial list)

1. 1970-72: Teletypes connected to my high school's PDP 11 minicomputer via acoustical modems, programmed BASIC-PLUS and FORTRAN.
2. 1972: HP 35C RPN scientific calculator, upgraded to a programmable model later.
3. 1972: Magnavox Odyssey (first commercial home video game console).
4. 1973-77: High school's DEC PDP-11/35 (donated by Bell Labs).
5. 1977-80: University's DEC PDP-11/45 running Bell Labs Research Unix Version 6.XX, C language, etc. Seeing the '# ' prompt appear on the iPhone my wife jailbroke for me along with its Unix-derived filesystem still makes me smile!
6. 1983 Mercedes 380SL roadster which still runs today.
7. 1983: Compaq Portable which still boots today.
8. 198X: Motorola DynaTAC "brick" cell phone. (stolen on BART when I fell asleep)
9. etc.

After reading all the complaints in the forums over time, I still think this is a marvelous car. So much automation is very very cool. This is more of a technology packed gadget than a utility vehicle. If you are a gadget junkie like me, you will have zero regrets or will put up with a lot of issues to be resolved later via software updates. The level of automation hardware that this car has allows for a lot of smart and cool scenarios down the line with "just software" updates.
Now if I were keen about utility and utility alone, I will certainly go out and buy a Subaru or something.. or perhaps the XC90 which seems to be a popular alternative in this car's class.
My only concern with this car is the durability of the automation hardware. I hope Tesla designed them to last for the life of the car.

 

[wdolson]

I'd be very apologetic too. His "hubris" is the root of these problems. His engineers likely saw this coming but feared for their jobs. This vehicle could be a success with conventional doors. FWD and and self closing front doors should have at best, been an option. The take rate would have been low.

The automatically closing front doors are an option. They are part of the Premium Upgrade Package.

R&D engineers are jazzed at doing new things and one person on the team who is a big thinker can get everyone else going. It's even worse when the big thinker is the boss.

This problem is currently diverting much of their limited engineering talent away from the Model 3. I would be driving an X right now if I had any confidence that this was a fixable problem. This appears to need a total redesign, the latches coming off the line appear to have the same problems as the early models. Was the latch ever redesigned? Or just repeatedly replaced when they fail?

If you can afford the grief and time at the SC, leasing an X would be an option. With the liability of cost after the warranty for repeated fixes, purchasing at this stage is quite the financial gamble.

All new car designs have teething problems. The Model S had plenty too.

I watched a fair bot of the shareholder's meeting. I had to come and go as I did other things, but one thing struck me with Elon's walk down memory lane. He said with the Model S they designed a car that was difficult to build and then compounded it with the Model X. Until quite recently the R&D guys would just do their design and "throw it over the wall" to the production guys and let them figure out how to make it.

Elon, as he normally does when he realizes he needs to learn something, goes back to the basics and learns the subject from the ground up. After the problems with the Model X, he taught himself industrial engineering and now has more appreciation on how to design for manufacturing. They are bringing in people with more experience with mass manufacturing and the goal is to streamline everything for the Model 3. When Elon focuses his energies on something, he does succeed.

At some point Tesla is going to have to do a 2nd generation Model S and X. The S is difficult to build and the X is extremely difficult to build. They will probably get the quality of the X up in the next year, they are ahead of the S at this stage in production. However, I doubt they will ever achieve full production capacity with the X as its designed. It just takes longer to build one than it does an S.

If the 3 has a successful release, they will be working on the Y, or whatever the CUV/SUV version of the 3 will be, but they may go back to the S and X with lessons learned and figure out how to redesign the cars for easier production. That will be a couple of years though.

I'm not a fan of the big sky windshield on the X, nor do I like SUVs, but even if the X was the sort of vehicle I wanted, I wouldn't buy one right now. The S is a much more stable design at this point. There are occasional problems with new Ss, but the rate is way down compared to 2013 and 2014.

 

[KaiserSoze]

My passenger door stopped latching within the first month, and then the replacement failed immediately. I don't think the door parts were getting the appropriate amount of testing, but it's a quick fix and I'm sure Tesla fixed the issue upstream. Hopefully they didn't have to bring latch manufacturing in house, as that won't scale.

 

[grommet]

The automatically closing front doors are an option. They are part of the Premium Upgrade Package.

All Model X vehicles have complex electrically actuated doors, and can automatically close. The only difference is that the Premium Package has "auto present" available in software: the door can open for you as you approach.

 

[X Yes?]

I'm not a fan of the big sky windshield on the X, nor do I like SUVs, but even if the X was the sort of vehicle I wanted, I wouldn't buy one right now. The S is a much more stable design at this point. There are occasional problems with new Ss, but the rate is way down compared to 2013 and 2014.

It appears that Tesla has not redesigned the offending latches on front and FWD doors. Lots of replacements with the same parts.
Do you think something so complex can ever be remedied to have durability beyond the warranty period?

 

[wdolson]

All Model X vehicles have complex electrically actuated doors, and can automatically close. The only difference is that the Premium Package has "auto present" available in software: the door can open for you as you approach.

OK, that was a weird marketing decision.

It appears that Tesla has not redesigned the offending latches on front and FWD doors. Lots of replacements with the same parts.
Do you think something so complex can ever be remedied to have durability beyond the warranty period?

That's a good question. We don't see some tech in cars because in the real world very often because they aren't that reliable. Back in the 70s some sports cars had retracting headlights. After a few years it was common to see one of the lights permanently stuck in the up position. Here are a couple of articles on why gull wing doors are rare:

Why There Aren't More Cars With Gullwing Doors
6 Reasons You Rarely See Gull Wing Doors Anymore

The falcon wing doors are auto closing, but they are heavy and there will be failures of the motors over time. Failures may be common or they may be rare, but they will happen. The S had failures of the door handles, but even if the door handle failed on the driver's door you could still drive the car. If a falcon wing door fails in the up position, especially if the motor seizes up, the car is pretty much undrivable.

There is a reason major car companies come up with way out there concept cars and never go into production with them. The manufacturing people look them over and declare the car unbuildable. Experienced people in the automotive press can usually tell the difference between cars that are sent to car shows just to catch headlines and those that are serious prototypes for production cars.

The Model X would have been considered a headline catcher from any other car maker.

Tesla has some top quality engineering staff who are good at thinking out of the box. They may solve the problems on the X, reliability on the S is now better than most people predicted 3 years ago. However, the X may always lag the S in reliability.

The upside is if Tesla gives up on the falcon wing doors and redesigns the X with standard doors, the Xs with FWDs will become collector's items. Even if they are buggy.

 

[EV Family]

My doors are still perfect over 2 months in

Call yourself lucky....for now, I would imagine your time will be here shortly. Just got my May build 2 weeks ago and doors have stopped functioning twice in the last week and it's currently sitting in the back of the SC waiting in line with other X's for a fix. I thought with Elon being at the end of production line during the period mine was built/his comments about the first perfect X coming off the line at that time was all great news for me. I was wrong, two perfect weeks into ownership and it's beginning.

 

[FlatSix911]

It appears that Tesla has not redesigned the offending latches on front and FWD doors. Lots of replacements with the same parts. Do you think something so complex can ever be remedied to have durability beyond the warranty period?

This is the correct answer ...

OK, that was a weird marketing decision.

That's a good question. We don't see some tech in cars because in the real world very often because they aren't that reliable. Back in the 70s some sports cars had retracting headlights. After a few years it was common to see one of the lights permanently stuck in the up position. Here are a couple of articles on why gull wing doors are rare:

Why There Aren't More Cars With Gullwing Doors
6 Reasons You Rarely See Gull Wing Doors Anymore

The falcon wing doors are auto closing, but they are heavy and there will be failures of the motors over time. Failures may be common or they may be rare, but they will happen. The S had failures of the door handles, but even if the door handle failed on the driver's door you could still drive the car. If a falcon wing door fails in the up position, especially if the motor seizes up, the car is pretty much undrivable.

There is a reason major car companies come up with way out there concept cars and never go into production with them. The manufacturing people look them over and declare the car unbuildable. Experienced people in the automotive press can usually tell the difference between cars that are sent to car shows just to catch headlines and those that are serious prototypes for production cars.

The Model X would have been considered a headline catcher from any other car maker. Tesla has some top quality engineering staff who are good at thinking out of the box. They may solve the problems on the X, reliability on the S is now better than most people predicted 3 years ago. However, the X may always lag the S in reliability. The upside is if Tesla gives up on the falcon wing doors and redesigns the X with standard doors, the Xs with FWDs will become collector's items. Even if they are buggy.

Great links ... 6 Reasons You Rarely See Gull Wing Doors Anymore

1. Gravity rules
2. Roof problems
3. Side collisions and door strength
4. Emergency access
5. Door sealing

 

[engle]

Here is what I would do to mitigate the Falcon Wing Doors short and long-term reliability concerns among us owners. Recall when they were having many issues with the electric motors and associated components? They decided to offer an extended 8 years, unlimited miles warranty on the battery and drive train.

All Tesla has to do is offer an 8 year, unlimited miles warranty on all the doors, door opening and closing mechanisms, and door seals. The only exclusion would be damage to the sheet metal caused by a collision that is covered by the owner's auto insurance policy.

Perhaps those that agree with me should email this suggestion to [email protected] ?

Comments?

 

[ohmman]

Comments?

If Tesla can convince themselves that they have an issue with X sales due to the concerns about door longevity, they should look into it. If there are X sales issues, and they're related to the doors from a functional/aesthetic perspective, this doesn't solve it, and it makes no sense for them as a business.

As an owner? I'm all in for an 8 year warranty. But as a company, they'll have to do the math and see if this 8 year warranty will result in enough orders to pay for the eventual repairs.

For now, I'm going to play it by ear. If I go years 2, 3, and 4 without door issues, I won't be too concerned. If they don't seem to resolve, I'll likely trade in for whatever's available at that time.

 

[electricity]

If Tesla can convince themselves that they have an issue with X sales due to the concerns about door longevity, they should look into it. If there are X sales issues, and they're related to the doors from a functional/aesthetic perspective, this doesn't solve it, and it makes no sense for them as a business.

As an owner? I'm all in for an 8 year warranty. But as a company, they'll have to do the math and see if this 8 year warranty will result in enough orders to pay for the eventual repairs.

For now, I'm going to play it by ear. If I go years 2, 3, and 4 without door issues, I won't be too concerned. If they don't seem to resolve, I'll likely trade in for whatever's available at that time.

I think the falcon doors are generating more sales from coolness/marketing than losing sales because of concerns. Alot more.

 

[X Yes?]

I think the falcon doors are generating more sales from coolness/marketing than losing sales because of concerns. Alot more.

I hope Elon does not see this. Next update might make the wings flap, instead of fixing the problem.