Mustang Mach E is a Gamechanger - My Opinion

[WilliamG]

TLDR:

Guy buys Model 3. He likes it but has a few complaints. Decides the car that he hasn't driven, isn't released, and is yet to be proven - is better.

OK then. Move along. Nothing to see here.

 

[Dan203]

I'm all for competition, and the specs sound impressive for the price. Unfortunately they put those specs, and the Mustang name, on what's essentially a station wagon. Not my cup of tea.

One thing no one is really considering is that the whole industry is going to be constrained by battery supply. There are simply not enough battery factories in the world to produce millions of EVs a year and everything else we use batteries for. This is where Tesla really had some forethought. They built the battery factory before they started building the car because they knew that without the batteries there was no way they could make the car in sufficient volume. Even now they're having issues. Who knows what's going to happen when the Y comes out. We could be back to year long waiting lists just because of battery constraints. There are already such long waits on the powerwall because basically every battery they make goes into a Model 3.

 

[MacGreiner]

This was posted previously from a user with a different name. His posts had repeatedly been deleted by mods for good reason.

Did no one in the string read this?

 

[jkdman123]

“While much of this will be opinion, there is nothing high quality about the interior or exterior workmanship of Tesla vehicles and there never has been. I'm not saying they don't look nice (which is again, entirely opinion), but their workmanship leaves much to be desired. This is heavily documented.”

First of all, I don’t know what Tesla’s you’ve driven, but the interiors are certainly high quality. While there are certainly people who may take issue with Tesla’s workmanship, I believe the truth is they’re improving rapidly, unlike other domestics.

And as for overall design of the interior, controls, UI interface, etc., Tesla absolutely blows away any other domestics. Period.

 

[jkdman123]

Did no one in the string read this?

Doesn’t matter. This thread has become his nightmare.

 

[Dan203]

I use the automatic cruise control all the time. I use the auto-steer feature as a party trick when someone else is in the car. it's unreliable and makes me feel tense when I use it. I just don't trust it. Maybe someday it'll get there, but right now I'd rather just drive myself.

 

[Az_Rael]

Again- your sig says Raleigh.

Maybe he is from Raleigh, North Dakota.

 

[Dan203]

“While much of this will be opinion, there is nothing high quality about the interior or exterior workmanship of Tesla vehicles and there never has been. I'm not saying they don't look nice (which is again, entirely opinion), but their workmanship leaves much to be desired. This is heavily documented.”

First of all, I don’t know what Tesla’s you’ve driven, but the interiors are certainly high quality. While there are certainly people who may take issue with Tesla’s workmanship, I believe the truth is they’re improving rapidly, unlike other domestics.

And as for overall design of the interior, controls, UI interface, etc., Tesla absolutely blows away any other domestics. Period.

IMHO the Tesla Model 3 build quality is that of a $35k car, even when you buy the $60k Performance version. Most people buying $60k cars, like me, are use to the build quality of the luxury brands (BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, etc...) so in that respect it's a bit of a step down.

It's more like a Subaru STI or Mitsubishi EVO, it's a lot faster than the car it's based on, but at it's core it's still a mid priced sedan with all the build quality issues that come with that.

My biggest complaint about the Model 3 is the wind/road noise. Yesterday I drove somewhere and it was really windy outside already (50mph gusts) and the wind noise was nearly unbearable. I'm use to much quieter cars. While I love, love, love the speed I wish there was a higher end variant with more noise isolation. I'd even be willing to pay an extra $10K or so for it.

 

[camalaio]

First of all, I don’t know what Tesla’s you’ve driven, but the interiors are certainly high quality. While there are certainly people who may take issue with Tesla’s workmanship, I believe the truth is they’re improving rapidly, unlike other domestics.

And as for overall design of the interior, controls, UI interface, etc., Tesla absolutely blows away any other domestics. Period.

Model 3. What's high quality about the interior?

• The hard plastics all over that rattle in the cold?
• The windows that rattle when you shut the door? (both Model 3 and Model X to my knowledge)
• The soft-touch polyurethane (presumably) that dents extremely easily?
• The "piano black" film (and yes, it's only a surface film) that scratches after looking at it?
• The seats that if you put a small dog on top off will either scratch (easily) or rip?
• The carpeting that is just standard car carpeting?
• The mats that... oh wait, these aren't even included with the car.

My 2014 Honda after 164,000 rough kilometers (I took that thing on some nasty dirt roads often) had absolutely zero rattles ever. The leather seats never showed any wear from myself nor the dog. There's soft-touch stuff everywhere that never got a single dent. And despite the fact the "wood"-look center console was easy to scratch, it turns out that's nothing compared to the Model 3's center console. In the trunk of the Honda they even had this nice durable carpeting that stuff slid on easily as well.

I say all of the above as an owner of a Tesla. I still like the car in many ways, but I'm not blind to the fact it's not even on par with a $35k Honda when it comes to interior.

While the screen in the Tesla is supremely responsive (and a large part of the reason we got it -- without the responsiveness, it would've been a hard no) and the touchscreen functions are far ahead of any other car I've been in, that's the end of my praise for the controls. Too many sacrifices for haptic/tactile controls in order to look and feel minimalist. We're still in the age of driving the cars ourselves, and they went a bit too far IMO.

If I compare to our '09 Honda Fit or a new Nissan Versa or something, of course Model 3 comes out way ahead. As it should, because that would be embarrassing otherwise.

So yeah, I'm totally open to the fact Ford just might pull off a better interior and/or controls. And if they don't, then oh well, I suppose they'll have less buyers and we'll have to wait for another manufacturer again to come out with an EV people will buy.

IMHO the Tesla Model 3 build quality is that of a $35k car, even when you buy the $60k Performance version. Most people buying $60k cars, like me, are use to the build quality of the luxury brands (BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, etc...) so in that respect it's a bit of a step down.

It's more like a Subaru STI or Mitsubishi EVO, it's a lot faster than the car it's based on, but at it's core it's still a mid priced sedan with all the build quality issues that come with that.

My biggest complaint about the Model 3 is the wind/road noise. Yesterday I drove somewhere and it was really windy outside already (50mph gusts) and the wind noise was nearly unbearable. I'm use to much quieter cars. While I love, love, love the speed I wish there was a higher end variant with more noise isolation. I'd even be willing to pay an extra $10K or so for it.

Exactly. I haven't driven vehicles with better road noise myself, but apparently loads of people on this forum have.

What's strange (maybe not entirely unique to the Model 3) is that there is almost truly no difference in the interior of the cheapest off-menu Standard Range vs. the Performance model. I can't think of any other vehicle with such a price difference in options/trim, the interior is essentially the same.

 

[jkdman123]

IMHO the Tesla Model 3 build quality is that of a $35k car, even when you buy the $60k Performance version. Most people buying $60k cars, like me, are use to the build quality of the luxury brands (BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, etc...) so in that respect it's a bit of a step down.

It's more like a Subaru STI or Mitsubishi EVO, it's a lot faster than the car it's based on, but at it's core it's still a mid priced sedan with all the build quality issues that come with that.

My biggest complaint about the Model 3 is the wind/road noise. Yesterday I drove somewhere and it was really windy outside already (50mph gusts) and the wind noise was nearly unbearable. I'm use to much quieter cars. While I love, love, love the speed I wish there was a higher end variant with more noise isolation. I'd even be willing to pay an extra $10K or so for it.

Agree to disagree. I’ve been in comparable BMWs of work colleagues and a relatively high end Merc Benz my brother in law has and I find the material and build quality to be on par with those. The Benz had more luxury touches but it should as I’m sure it’s quite a bit more than my SR+. And 50 mph winds would be noisy in just about anything but a really high end car with sound attenuating glass and other noise deadening features that would push the cost (and weight) up a good bit.

 

[jkdman123]

Model 3. What's high quality about the interior?

• The hard plastics all over that rattle in the cold?
• The windows that rattle when you shut the door? (both Model 3 and Model X to my knowledge)
• The soft-touch polyurethane (presumably) that dents extremely easily?
• The "piano black" film (and yes, it's only a surface film) that scratches after looking at it?
• The seats that if you put a small dog on top off will either scratch (easily) or rip?
• The carpeting that is just standard car carpeting?
• The mats that... oh wait, these aren't even included with the car.

My 2014 Honda after 164,000 rough kilometers (I took that thing on some nasty dirt roads often) had absolutely zero rattles ever. The leather seats never showed any wear from myself nor the dog. There's soft-touch stuff everywhere that never got a single dent. And despite the fact the "wood"-look center console was easy to scratch, it turns out that's nothing compared to the Model 3's center console. In the trunk of the Honda they even had this nice durable carpeting that stuff slid on easily as well.

I say all of the above as an owner of a Tesla. I still like the car in many ways, but I'm not blind to the fact it's not even on par with a $35k Honda when it comes to interior.

While the screen in the Tesla is supremely responsive (and a large part of the reason we got it -- without the responsiveness, it would've been a hard no) and the touchscreen functions are far ahead of any other car I've been in, that's the end of my praise for the controls. Too many sacrifices for haptic/tactile controls in order to look and feel minimalist. We're still in the age of driving the cars ourselves, and they went a bit too far IMO.

If I compare to our '09 Honda Fit or a new Nissan Versa or something, of course Model 3 comes out way ahead. As it should, because that would be embarrassing otherwise.

So yeah, I'm totally open to the fact Ford just might pull off a better interior and/or controls. And if they don't, then oh well, I suppose they'll have less buyers and we'll have to wait for another manufacturer again to come out with an EV people will buy.



Exactly. I haven't driven vehicles with better road noise myself, but apparently loads of people on this forum have.

What's strange (maybe not entirely unique to the Model 3) is that there is almost truly no difference in the interior of the cheapest off-menu Standard Range vs. the Performance model. I can't think of any other vehicle with such a price difference in options/trim, the interior is essentially the same.

I have pretty much none of the issues you cite with my Model 3. Not saying they don’t exist, but if you polled EVERY owner of ANY model of car, including Bentley and Rolls Royce, you’d find people who have issues with one thing or another.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

The term "game changer" is a wildly overused term.

iPhone was a game changer. iPod as well. Tesla is a game changer. A little car company making EV's has forced the big legacies to commit to building their own.

Ford making an EV is not a game changer. It's a player in the new game.

 

[OCR1]

I don’t have high hopes for the Mustang Mach E. Not because it’s a Ford. But because it’s their first real EV. I sat by the sidelines when Tesla came out with their Roadster...and then their Model S...and then their Model X...and after a full year of production of the Model 3 I jumped in.

Ford is still in the Roadster stage. And look at how well Mercedes, Audi and Jaguar have done so far with their first EV. They are all an absolute mess. Ford will eventually get EVs that people will want to own. But not their first one, and probably not their second one either.

 

[Huskyfan]

Having driven EVs for over nine years now (2011 Leaf,2014, 2017 BMW I3) and now a Kia Niro Ev and a Tesla M3P, I feel pretty confident on my experience with legacy automakers attempting to make EVs, as compared to TESLA.
Most fast chargers are inoperative. When you call their help line, most of the telephone support is clueless. Simply put, other than TESLA, my experience w charging infrastructure is that it is a mess. Multiple providers, poor maintenance, inconsistent pricing.

the whole legacy car purchase program/experience is a joke. Haggling over price. Everytime I’ve purchased a new car from anyone other than TESLA I felt like I could/should of haggled for a better price. Seriously, traditional auto sales is so full of options, aftermarket sales pitches for paint or interior treatment; it’s terrible. Just sell me the car for the same price as everyone else. Don’t make my price based on how much research I’ve done to figure out how much you are trying to rip me off for. On top of that, legacy auto manufacturers sell so few EVs that they are often clueless on the features. Nissan Kia, BMW, Mercedes. Most have no idea of state EV incentives.

same with service departments. My BMW was like a training tool for the local dealer whenever it went in for regular service. Two days to do simple things. Figure most dealerships will have one tech who’s gone through additional training. My wife’s Kia was in the shop for a week due to charging problems. It should have taken a day (bad relay).

I find the Tesla to have much better materials and at least as good build quality as any Ford, chevy, Chrysler product. My neighbor just bought a new Mustang. All hard, shiny plastic.

I think it’s great for us all to have more EVs available. Ford will do well in the Midwest where to buy a car from California or oversea is almost heresy. That being said, my suspicion is that it will be about as well executed as the recent efforts by Audi, Jaguar and Mercedes. A good starting effort, but a long way to go.

 

[camalaio]

I don’t have high hopes for the Mustang Mach E. Not because it’s a Ford. But because it’s their first real EV. I sat by the sidelines when Tesla came out with their Roadster...and then their Model S...and then their Model X...and after a full year of production of the Model 3 I jumped in.

Ford is still in the Roadster stage. And look at how well Mercedes, Audi and Jaguar have done so far with their first EV. They are all an absolute mess. Ford will eventually get EVs that people will want to own. But not their first one, and probably not their second one either.

Ford has one thing going for it that Tesla didn't: they know how to build a 4-wheeled thing that fits today's requirements and realities of production. Tesla struggled along with this for a time, and still used the Model 3 to learn many lessons around that.

As for the "Roadster stage", that's fair. Nissan arguably went through this (though quite well). VW ID.3 looks extremely promising, though to be fair is TBD. The BMW i3 wasn't all that terrible of an EV really. Many say the Chevy Bolt is fantastic if it weren't for the rock hard awkward seats. And shockingly, I've heard nothing but good things about the Kia Niro from owners (though I haven't gone out of my way to get more stories).

 

[Huskyfan]

Again- your sig says Raleigh.



Looking for CCS chargers at EA locations- There's 1 2-port one at Target in Cary. There's also 12 Supercharger stalls in Cary.

There's 1 5-port in Raleigh. There's also 12 supercharger stalls in Raleigh.


So your facts, again, don't seem to line up with reality.

(We can go further out if you like- then I get to mention the superchargers in Burlington, Henderson, Rocky Mount, and smithfield- all 8 stalls each.... versus Electrify Americas 3-stall chargers in Henderson, Rocky Mount, Smithfield, Hillsborough.... you do get to add the 2-stall in Wake Forest I suppose but you're falling further behind the larger we make the radius and you were already way behind to start.)


Wait- my bad... most of the EA locations I listed turns out they're only 50 kw not 350.

In fact NONE of the Raleigh or Cary spots list better than 50 on plugshare. Ditto Wake Forest.

Smithfield, Henderson, Hillsborough are it in listing 300+ kw chargers. All just a few stalls each.

Versus the several dozen Supercharger stalls in that same radius out from Raleigh.


So your claim makes even less sense.

Just went to electrify America charging site with my wife’s Niro EV. Only one of two chargers locations available in Ellensburg WA. All eight were inoperative. Found another EVSE charging site by a different company. Had to park, blocking an alley cuz the two charger were being blocked by ICE drivers. Downloaded another app on my phone, because each EV provider has its own app. Finally got car charged. Two hours of phone calls, app downloads, etc to finally charge her car. A joke.

 

[Huskyfan]

My wife’s Niro EV feels like an ICE car they cobbled into becoming an EV. It seems they are attempting to appeal to folks that want their EV to feel utterly conventional. It’s comfortable, has good range,acceleration. Handles ok. But tons of torque steer, dash that looks like it wants to appear like any other car. Regen braking is by default very weak. You can increase it in steps to allow one pedal driving. But as soon as you shut the car off, it’s back to least amount of regen. Why?

 

[ac_power]

Electrify America pricing is 3x of Tesla Superchargers, and 1.5x higher than gas.
2 stalls where Tesla offers 8..15, like already said.
Just a forced VAG child which is not meant for real business.

 

[Arpe]

I really hope Ford will be ready for the Mach-E, but it takes time. Here in Europe my dad have been driving the Renault Zoe since 2013 in Denmark. He tried to get it serviced in my hometown where my parents still lives, but they didn't know what an electric vehicle is.
For the last 7 years he has traveled at least 70 miles to get it services, most of his service have been done in Germany. I have heard similar stories regarding the Nissan Leaf in Denmark as well.

Just because there is a dealer and service center of your car maker close by, doesn't necessarily means you may service the vehicle there. I truly hope Ford will be able to follow through but I have my doubts.

 

[jonquiljo]

Model 3. What's high quality about the interior?

• The hard plastics all over that rattle in the cold?
• The windows that rattle when you shut the door? (both Model 3 and Model X to my knowledge)
• The soft-touch polyurethane (presumably) that dents extremely easily?
• The "piano black" film (and yes, it's only a surface film) that scratches after looking at it?
• The seats that if you put a small dog on top off will either scratch (easily) or rip?
• The carpeting that is just standard car carpeting?
• The mats that... oh wait, these aren't even included with the car.

My 2014 Honda after 164,000 rough kilometers (I took that thing on some nasty dirt roads often) had absolutely zero rattles ever. The leather seats never showed any wear from myself nor the dog. There's soft-touch stuff everywhere that never got a single dent. And despite the fact the "wood"-look center console was easy to scratch, it turns out that's nothing compared to the Model 3's center console. In the trunk of the Honda they even had this nice durable carpeting that stuff slid on easily as well.

I say all of the above as an owner of a Tesla. I still like the car in many ways, but I'm not blind to the fact it's not even on par with a $35k Honda when it comes to interior.

While the screen in the Tesla is supremely responsive (and a large part of the reason we got it -- without the responsiveness, it would've been a hard no) and the touchscreen functions are far ahead of any other car I've been in, that's the end of my praise for the controls. Too many sacrifices for haptic/tactile controls in order to look and feel minimalist. We're still in the age of driving the cars ourselves, and they went a bit too far IMO.

If I compare to our '09 Honda Fit or a new Nissan Versa or something, of course Model 3 comes out way ahead. As it should, because that would be embarrassing otherwise.

So yeah, I'm totally open to the fact Ford just might pull off a better interior and/or controls. And if they don't, then oh well, I suppose they'll have less buyers and we'll have to wait for another manufacturer again to come out with an EV people will buy.



Exactly. I haven't driven vehicles with better road noise myself, but apparently loads of people on this forum have.

What's strange (maybe not entirely unique to the Model 3) is that there is almost truly no difference in the interior of the cheapest off-menu Standard Range vs. the Performance model. I can't think of any other vehicle with such a price difference in options/trim, the interior is essentially the same.

I think my Model 3 is an extraordinary car. It drives like no other. Yes, a few rattles and creaks, but the car really is unparalleled in 2020 - and that speaks volumes about what it is and what it does. Personally, I like the tech, again unparalleled in any car I have yet to see. The AP is well done - just not what I tend to use. I bought the car because of the way it drove. I want to drive it - so AP or FSD are not what I want right now. Lets look at it as a testament to the excellent driving characteristics of the Model 3.

But lets get real. The Model 3 is no luxury car - not even close. There are trims of a Honda accord that beat it hands down. The sleek styling of the Model 3 exterior takes your attention off the interior. But IMO, the interior is really 2nd or third tier. It is not a Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, or any fine luxury car. It is all the things that people complain about. I have had top tier luxury cars since the early 90’s (Mercedes SL and a pile of other Mercedes and Porsches afterward.) The Model 3 is not even close when it comes to its interior.

In fact, the Model 3 is thrown together without regard to fit and finish. That issue is getting better now, but it still has a long ways to go. The interior really hides behind its “zen-like” design. If you totally simplify the interior of a car, there are less things to look tacky and cheap. It seems that Tesla keeps on removing little things to save a buck or two in its manufacture. Bottom line, its a car thrown together with Tesla looking to churn out as many as possible. Its interior is perhaps better stark and zen-like - as any more cheap components will just make it look worse.

i knew this before I purchased the vehicle, because it is one of the most technologically advanced vehicles on the road today. So I can’t complain and wont complain. The Model 3 is a “mixed” experience. I still wouldn’t get rid of it for any car on the road - and most of these cars are easily within my reach.

Eventually the Model 3 and Model Y (or its successors) will have a luxury car fit, finish and feel. It will take a while. Then again, Ford is no luxury car also. I bet it is as plasticky and cut down as the Model 3 is. So time will tell. When people refer to the Model 3 as a luxury car - they are way off base. Big deal, thats not what a Model 3 us all about. So lets drive our cars and enjoy them for what they are. Thats more than good enough for me.