Mustang Mach E is a Gamechanger - My Opinion

[dmurphy]

like most other domestic car makers, are warmed over crap. Design wise and workmanship wise.

Whatever. I chose our Enclave over any of the other 3-row SUVs out there. The Q7, RX350L, XC90, X5, all of ‘em. Just because it’s domestic doesn’t make it crap.

 

[golfcart]

Time will tell if the Mach E is a great car or a dud. The specs look good, I actually like the design (for a crossover), and Ford is an established brand with a large dealership and service network. They'll also have a $7500 subsidy that Tesla doesn't have for a while. I sat in a bunch of 2020 Ford Crossovers/SUVs at the local car show recently and thought the interior was actually pretty nice. We just have to wait and see when they start delivering them...

I think all this talk about fast charging networks is relevant but overblown, I've been electric since 2015 and I've used DC fast chargers (CHAdeMO or Supercharger) about 20 times over that period. The only time I have supercharged my Model 3 was driving it back from Georgia when I bought it... otherwise I just plug in at home. 300 miles of range is good for like 98% of the driving that most folks do. Worst case you can rent an ICE car for a road trip and it only costs you about $50 a day which might be worth it to not put miles on your fancy EV and be able to get 350 miles of range in 2 minutes (at a gas pump) vs 250 miles of range in 45 minutes (at a Supercharger).

 

[Knightshade]

Ford has one thing going for it that Tesla didn't: they know how to build a 4-wheeled thing that fits today's requirements and realities of production.

So did Audi, Jaguar, Mercedes, and VW one presumes?

And all have ended up with significant production problems with their first gen EVs... (hell, VW had a significant problem with their SECOND gen EVs... like 20,000 of em sitting useless in a parking lot until they're each manually software patched by hand right now because they haven't gotten OTA working yet...)

 

[Az_Rael]

Ford is still in the Roadster stage.

Nah, the Focus EV was their roadster stage. This is their Model S stage.

 

[Turlejay]

The biggest advantage I think the legacy auto makers are going to have is affordable leasing. Tesla leasing is way too expensive and makes no sense. The fact that Ford, Chevy etc will offer incentives and rebates over and above the government stuff will make it easier financially for people to start dipping their toes in the EV market.

When leasing I try to adhere to the 1% rule, which is basically to say the payment shouldnt be more than 1% of the sticker with taxes and fees oop. This isn't remotely acheivable with Tesla. Yet when I leased my volt with the same sticker price as the TM3, I paid under 300 a month with no money out of pocket. Just a thought.

 

[vjason]

For me it comes back to the charging network. I realize that Electrify America will continue to build out stations, but I wonder if they have the data needed to do it correctly (Tesla knows where their cars live and drive, EA/others do not).
As an actual Raleigh resident I sit here at work right now with about 45% charge (only charge 2-3x a week), and it takes 7%-8% to drive home. I could drive home, pack a bag, and drive to the beach right now and would have *4* Superchargers along the route (North Hills (Raleigh), Rocky Mount, Plymouth, and Kill Devil Hills).
If I had any other EV I could fast charge in Raleigh and Rocky Mount, and that's it. There isn't a single level 3 "non-Tesla" charger east of Rocky Mount other than in Cape Hatteras (the one at the out of the way/not 24-hour Nissan dealer doesn't count), and there is an awful lot of NC east of there.

 

[MacGreiner]

For me it comes back to the charging network. I realize that Electrify America will continue to build out stations, but I wonder if they have the data needed to do it correctly (Tesla knows where their cars live and drive, EA/others do not).
As an actual Raleigh resident I sit here at work right now with about 45% charge (only charge 2-3x a week), and it takes 7%-8% to drive home. I could drive home, pack a bag, and drive to the beach right now and would have *4* Superchargers along the route (North Hills (Raleigh), Rocky Mount, Plymouth, and Kill Devil Hills).
If I had any other EV I could fast charge in Raleigh and Rocky Mount, and that's it. There isn't a single level 3 "non-Tesla" charger east of Rocky Mount other than in Cape Hatteras (the one at the out of the way/not 24-hour Nissan dealer doesn't count), and there is an awful lot of NC east of there.

Agreed.
No one cares about DC fast charging until they need it. Once they do, they will realize that the Tesla supercharger network is the defining moat that puts it ahead of every other competitor and for quite some time.

 

[1965Falcon]

Did no one in the string read this?

OP is probably from Ford marketing and we are his market research into what they need to work on...

 

[MARKM3]

For me it comes back to the charging network. I realize that Electrify America will continue to build out stations, but I wonder if they have the data needed to do it correctly (Tesla knows where their cars live and drive, EA/others do not).
As an actual Raleigh resident I sit here at work right now with about 45% charge (only charge 2-3x a week), and it takes 7%-8% to drive home. I could drive home, pack a bag, and drive to the beach right now and would have *4* Superchargers along the route (North Hills (Raleigh), Rocky Mount, Plymouth, and Kill Devil Hills).
If I had any other EV I could fast charge in Raleigh and Rocky Mount, and that's it. There isn't a single level 3 "non-Tesla" charger east of Rocky Mount other than in Cape Hatteras (the one at the out of the way/not 24-hour Nissan dealer doesn't count), and there is an awful lot of NC east of there.

I live on the east coast of NC, Raleigh is my closest service center. The closest Electrify America is smithfield, rocky mount, lumber ton, etc.

"
Electrify America is the United States' biggest "brand-neutral" (although it is funded by VW's massive dieselgate fine purse) charging network as opposed to the Tesla-only Supercharger Network and is spending $2 billion on constructing 800 charge stations nationwide by the end of 2021. By this time, Electrify America aims to have 3,500 individual chargers online in 45 states, 29 cities, and along two trans-American routes.

Automakers whose customers will rely on Electrify America stations for long-distance trips include Ford, Audi, Porsche, and Volkswagen.
"

The price to use electrify America chargers are null, when considering you will use them rarely. They are building them out quickly. It is not as widespread as the Tesla Network, but with the support of those major automakers it will build out quickly.

There are only 1800 Tesla stations in the USA.

Walmart is also partnering with Electrify America to install them at Walmart. They will grow rapidly.

My post is not about Ford being better and me buying one over Tesla, my post is about how attractive Ford's first true EV really is. It shows their commitment and If I had to choose between the two, I would be hard pressed to decide. The value proposition of Tesla isn't like it was a year ago to me now.

 

[MARKM3]

Everyone (I blame myself in this as well) likes to point out how long distance travel is required once in a while, so Superchargers are the only real solution.

But just how far are we talking? I go out about 700km in any particular direction from my house, and that's about it. And we drive a lot. My life is still young, but I've only once travelled further than that, halfway across the country. The wife swears we're never doing it again and I don't blame her. If you have Tesla Model 3 money, you probably have domestic flight money for that one time in 5 years that you do so. Plus this drive only became possible with a Tesla 2 months ago!

If I look within 700km any direction, CCS & CHAdeMO outnumber Tesla Superchargers both in number of locations and number of stalls. The network is indeed slower right now (mostly 50kW stations), but at least they exist and 50kW is still plenty if you're not doing cross-country trips. It's not inconceivable that others are in this situation, especially outside major Tesla hubs like California. As long as you can actually pull the 50kW when you arrive after pulling up a mountain (looking at you Nissan Leaf) then this is honestly fine for early adoption (which everyone likes to remind us we're early Tesla adopters to this day, so I'm calling it fair to say we're in early EV adoption stages yet).

The more widespread deployment of CCS/CHAdeMO also means I don't have to make detours to Superchargers. Some locations require odd routes just to hit Superchargers, making a 1h30m impact to travel time. Or, I can hit a slower CHAdeMO station and not go out of my way.



While much of this will be opinion, there is nothing high quality about the interior or exterior workmanship of Tesla vehicles and there never has been. I'm not saying they don't look nice (which is again, entirely opinion), but their workmanship leaves much to be desired. This is heavily documented.

Great response

 

[MARKM3]

Again- your sig says Raleigh.



Looking for CCS chargers at EA locations- There's 1 2-port one at Target in Cary. There's also 12 Supercharger stalls in Cary.

There's 1 5-port in Raleigh. There's also 12 supercharger stalls in Raleigh.


So your facts, again, don't seem to line up with reality.

(We can go further out if you like- then I get to mention the superchargers in Burlington, Henderson, Rocky Mount, and smithfield- all 8 stalls each.... versus Electrify Americas 3-stall chargers in Henderson, Rocky Mount, Smithfield, Hillsborough.... you do get to add the 2-stall in Wake Forest I suppose but you're falling further behind the larger we make the radius and you were already way behind to start.)


Wait- my bad... most of the EA locations I listed turns out they're only 50 kw not 350.

In fact NONE of the Raleigh or Cary spots list better than 50 on plugshare. Ditto Wake Forest.

Smithfield, Henderson, Hillsborough are it in listing 300+ kw chargers. All just a few stalls each.

Versus the several dozen Supercharger stalls in that same radius out from Raleigh.


So your claim makes even less sense.

On East cost, Smithfield has 4 350kw stations, Rocky mount has 4 350kw stations, Greenville has 1 50kw station, Wallace has 1 50kw station, Fay has 1 50, Lumberton has 4 350kw, Evergreen has 2 60kw, Raleigh has a ton of 50kw scattered around and several 150kw.

So what are you talking about? I could be easily satisfied with twice as many choices then Tesla gives me in my area. Again, this isn't a rant dissing Tesla but you can see the supercharging network is becoming less and less valuable as an EV owner.

When will Tesla have even 1 350kw supercharger in NC?

 

[1965Falcon]

My post is not about Ford being better and me buying one over Tesla, my post is about how attractive Ford's first true EV really is. It shows their commitment and If I had to choose between the two, I would be hard pressed to decide. The value proposition of Tesla isn't like it was a year ago to me now.

I agree for the most part but probably for different reasons. The one thing that does make me consider the Mach E is that I get really annoyed at all the negative stereotyping that I get for driving a Tesla and I suspect that it wouldn't happen with the Mach E. Is that a good reason, not really... but I think about it.

 

[MARKM3]

I agree for the most part but probably for different reasons. The one thing that does make me consider the Mach E is that I get really annoyed at all the negative stereotyping that I get for driving a Tesla and I suspect that it wouldn't happen with the Mach E. Is that a good reason, not really... but I think about it.

Yeah I understand that, people think you are loaded driving in a Model 3.

 

[VQTRVA]

1) Autopilot is awesome, but I find myself only using it roughly 10% of the time I drive. The nag every 10-15 seconds, and the fact that on non highway roads you're limited to the speed limit or less - have me just driving the car - and it is a blast to drive. On long road trips, using autopilot causes me to feel tired and I find myself driving for majority of the trip. Overall, the value of autopilot to me isn't really that great. The model 3 is a long ways from autonomy, at least 5 years away in my opinion from FSD.

this is a personal problem & not everyone has to be in 100% nannying the AP (smart cruise control)

2) The interior is holding up well over the past year, but there are constantly squeaks and rattles that annoy me and something I'm not use to from legacy automakers. The car build quality is not to par to other manufactures, but that is OK. I knew that going into it. Tesla is more of a technology company than a car company.



3) Having drive two hours away to the nearest service center for warranty work has been a pain over the last year, but I knew that going into ownership. It is annoying when it is over minor squeaks and rattles, but having a service center close by would be nice. Tesla service is not that great either, and the service center is always bumping full. They don't even do state inspections.

Squeaks & rattles are best left to the car owners to sort out in my experience. There are plenty of YouTube Videos & chat board discussions covering the gamut of these issues where it's simple enough for a DIY owner.

Furthermore, it's a waste of time for a service center to chase down something that only you can hear & they can't replicate.

So where does the Mustang Mach E come into all of this? Well since the release of the Mach E three months ago, Ford has really garnered my attention with their EV offering. I was always under the impression that Tesla is 7-10 year ahead of all legacy automakers in the EV space, but wow was I wrong. Ford's first attempt at an EV is not only amazing, but it is downright genius and is a serious contender to those looking at purchasing a model Y. I have never owned a Ford in my life - but the Mustang Mach E checks all the boxes (range, performance, tech, design, service, etc.) and it has me seriously considering Ford's Mustang Mach E in a few years when it is time for an upgrade.

All of this is speculation as the Ford has not been real world tested for range.
They have not addressed their battery supply.
And the styling is subjective at best.

 

[MARKM3]

this is a personal problem & not everyone has to be in control over the AP.



Squeaks & rattles are best left to the car owners to sort out in my experience. There are plenty of YouTube Video & chat board discussions covering the gamut of these issues where it's simple enough for a DIY owner.

Furthermore, it's a waste of time for a service center to chase down something that only you can hear & they can't replicate.



All of this is speculation as the Ford has not been real world tested for range.
They have not addressed their battery supply.
And the styling is subjective at best.

Fair response, thank you. We will have to see, but I and a lot of others are impressed with the price point and on paper specs of the Ford Mach E.

 

[Knightshade]

On East cost, Smithfield has 4 350kw stations, Rocky mount has 4 350kw stations, Greenville has 1 50kw station, Wallace has 1 50kw station, Fay has 1 50, Lumberton has 4 350kw, Evergreen has 2 60kw, Raleigh has a ton of 50kw scattered around and several 150kw.

So what are you talking about?

I'm talking about the lie you told us earlier in the thread- that you just confirmed.

Here let me remind you-

There are more 350KW electrify america chargers near me than tesla superchargers.

You just confirmed there's only 12 such stations- and you had to go as far afield as 1.5 hours away from Raleigh to find most of them.

Whereas Tesla has 12 supercharger stalls just in raleigh itself and dozens more in the same radius you just cited.



It was shortly after you told this lie:

Having drive two hours away to the nearest service center for warranty work has been a pain over the last year, but I knew that going into ownership.

But as I pointed out there's a service center in Raleigh

And has been for years.

Where your sig claims you live.

 

[MARKM3]

I'm talking about the lie you told us earlier in the thread- that you just confirmed.

Here let me remind you-




You just confirmed there's only 12 such stations- and you had to go as far afield as 1.5 hours away from Raleigh to find most of them.

Whereas Tesla has 12 supercharger stalls just in raleigh itself and dozens more in the same radius you just cited.



It was shortly after you told this lie:




But as I pointed out there's a service center in Raleigh

And has been for years.

Where your sig claims you live.

Did you not read my post, I said I live on the east coast and I put Raleigh because it is my nearest service center. Who gives a damn that Tesla has 12 stalls, when It's no where near where I wanna go I'm not going to drive hours out of the way and will wait at a 4 stall charger. Saying I am a liar is awfully rude.

 

[SigNC]

There are more 350KW electrify america chargers near me than tesla superchargers. They are growing rapidly and with all automakers using them I imagine their coverage will outreach Tesla enormously when it is all said and done.

if you actually live near raleigh this certainly isn't true. there aren't even more EA plugs period in the area, certainly not more 350kW ones

 

[SigNC]

i've never seen anybody try to make an argument that 3rd party chargers have the best coverage. Interesting approach. Get a chademo adapter and be happy you can leverage both.

 

[MARKM3]

i've never seen anybody try to make an argument that 3rd party chargers have the best coverage. Interesting approach. Get a chademo adapter and be happy you can leverage both.

Not saying they have the best coverage, Tesla is more widespread. All I'm saying is that with going with a different EV, there are more non tesla chargers than tesla chargers near me, and the fact that I barely use them anyway - Superchargers add very little value to my value proposition. Having to go to a non Tesla charger factors into me not caring about having a Tesla charger, lol.

Others have decided to take this out of proportion, but that is ok.