Mustang Mach E is a Gamechanger - My Opinion

[sixela]

2) The interior is holding up well over the past year, but there are constantly squeaks and rattles that annoy me and something I'm not use to from legacy automakers. The car build quality is not to par to other manufactures, but that is OK. I knew that going into it. Tesla is more of a technology company than a car company.

I've driven 6 Fords from 1984 to 2018 (and I liked them -- for the price, they give very enjoyable rides and lots of interior room, although the EV we're discussing does not have that much room, really).

Whoever would select a Ford to avoid squeaks and rattles is either pretending to and working for Ford marketing, or has never driven a Ford before for more than three years on a stretch.

Unless, of course, somehow Fords in the US are better built than Fords in Genk or one of their German and UK factories, but colour me just a wee bit skeptical ;-).

 

[MARKM3]

I've driven 6 Fords from 1984 to 2018 (and I liked them -- for the price, they give very enjoyable rides and lots of interior room, although the EV we're discussing does not have that much room, really).

Whoever would select a Ford to avoid squeaks and rattles is either pretending to and working for Ford marketing, or has never driven a Ford before.

Unless, of course, somehow Fords in the US are better built than Fords in Genk or one of their German and UK factories, but colour me just a wee bit skeptical ;-).

Never owned a Ford before, and all I'm saying is that Tesla Build quality is certainly not to spec like other automakers. The fit and finish, paint, lines, interior rattles, etc certainly leave a lot to be desired. I had a Chrysler 300 before this and it was a much nicer interior with no rattles.

 

[Knightshade]

Did you not read my post, I said I live on the east coast and I put Raleigh because it is my nearest service center. Who gives a damn that Tesla has 12 stalls, when It's no where near where I wanna go I'm not going to drive hours out of the way and will wait at a 4 stall charger. Saying I am a liar is awfully rude.

If you dislike being called a liar- stop lying.


Most of the places you cited there being 350kw EA chargers there's twice as many superchargers

So your original claim continued to be, demonstrably, false.

Here's YOUR post-

On East cost, Smithfield has 4 350kw stations, Rocky mount has 4 350kw stations, Greenville has 1 50kw station, Wallace has 1 50kw station, Fay has 1 50, Lumberton has 4 350kw, Evergreen has 2 60kw, Raleigh has a ton of 50kw scattered around and several 150kw.

Let's just pull the 350s out of there since that's the basis of your original claim that there's more of those than superchargers.



4 in Smithfield. Where Tesla has 8 superchargers.

4 in Rocky Mount. Where Tesla has 8 superchargers.

4 in Lumberton. Where Tesla has 8 superchargers.

There's also 16 more superchargers in Fayetteville which is on YOUR list but has 0 350kw EA stations.

Wallace has 0 350s per your list- but Tesla has 8 more superchargers there.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

LOL for expecting that the FIRST full EV from Ford ever on a brand-new platform with third party motors and batteries - assembled in Mexico will have superior build quality and less issues than the Model 3....

 

[texas_star_TM3]

the premium Mach E (only with RWD...) gets 300 miles but is $55k ... the AWD tops out at 270 miles (14% less than Model Y AWD) and costs 58k. So even after tax incentives... both Model Y Premium and Mach E Premium in AWD cost "about the same". Not sure where you get $45k from ?

 

[Knightshade]

All I'm saying is that with going with a different EV, there are more non tesla chargers than tesla chargers near me

What you actually said was there's more 350kw chargers near you than superchargers.

Which is demonstrably false.

In fact it appears there's more superchargers than even crappy 50kw ones from your own list compared to the supercharger info.

, and the fact that I barely use them anyway - Superchargers add very little value to my value proposition.

Then it's weird you keep bringing it up (with easily debunked claims) and basically reposted a commercial for Electrify America.

 

[MARKM3]

If you dislike being called a liar- stop lying.


Most of the places you cited there being 350kw EA chargers there's twice as many superchargers

So your original claim continued to be, demonstrably, false.

Here's YOUR post-




Let's just pull the 350s out of there since that's the basis of your original claim that there's more of those than superchargers.



4 in Smithfield. Where Tesla has 8 superchargers.

4 in Rocky Mount. Where Tesla has 8 superchargers.

4 in Lumberton. Where Tesla has 8 superchargers.

There's also 16 more superchargers in Fayetteville which is on YOUR list but has 0 350kw EA stations.

Wallace has 0 350s per your list- but Tesla has 8 more superchargers there.

Knightshade, have you even pulled up plugshare and looked at the available network? Good lord man, again who cares how many Tesla has in 1 spot, look around me. I have a 25kw charger in jacksonville, two in wallace that are 50kw. Overall in the state of NC there are more DC fast chargers than Tesla superchargers, and so why is the Tesla supercharging so special? And a lot of them are 350KW capable.

Sigh.

 

[rickdogg82]

I think your assessment of Tesla is spot on although I think 5 years from FSD is a overly optimistic. I am still going with my 2050 prediction which assumes that no changes to infrastructure are made to accommodate it, and no laws are created that make self-driving standards lower than that of a human.

However Saying the Mach E is a game changer is jumping the gun. Until they are out and about nobody knows how they will work in the real world.

Tesla is playing with fire. Like dancing cars suddenly steady as a rock, a competing EV will appear that competes favorably with Tesla's best qualities, but without the bad ones. If Tesla hasn't fixed their problems by that time, they will fail.

I think the Taycan S will be the one that takes down the Model S.

 

[MARKM3]

I think your assessment of Tesla is spot on although I think 5 years from FSD is a overly optimistic. I am still going with my 2050 prediction which assumes that no changes to infrastructure are made to accommodate it, and no laws are created that make self-driving standards lower than that of a human.

However Saying the Mach E is a game changer is jumping the gun. Until they are out and about nobody knows how they will work in the real world.

Tesla is playing with fire. Like dancing cars suddenly steady as a rock, a competing EV will appear that competes favorably with Tesla's best qualities, but without the bad ones. If Tesla hasn't fixed their problems by that time, they will fail.

Great response Rickdogg82, Thank you. I agree with you.

 

[Joshan]

Posted the exact same thread (multiple times) on other forums. Re-posted it after it was deleted. Really seems to have an agenda more than just an personal opinion of liking a car.

 

[Turlejay]

In Western New York, the superchargers aren't well laid out. This is probably because of ordinances and land availability but of the two main cities, Buffalo and Rochester, the chargers are well outside of the city and quite far off the Thruway.

 

[Knightshade]

Knightshade, have you even pulled up plugshare and looked at the available network?

Dude- I used your own list of where "all" these 350kw chargers are near you.


There's MANY more Tesla superchargers. Generally in the same cities as your 350kw EA chargers.


Not sure how you're not getting you were caught lying?

Good lord man, again who cares how many Tesla has in 1 spot, look around me. I have a 25kw charger in jacksonville, two in wallace that are 50kw.

And Wallace has 8 supercharger stalls.

So again actual facts prove you're not being honest in this discussion

Overall in the state of NC there are more DC fast chargers than Tesla superchargers, and so why is the Tesla supercharging so special? And a lot of them are 350KW capable.

I hope that ford has a tow hitch to help you with all the goalpost moving you're desperate to do now

 

[MARKM3]

Dude- I used your own list of where "all" these 350kw chargers are near you.


There's MANY more Tesla superchargers. Generally in the same cities as your 350kw EA chargers.


Not sure how you're not getting you were caught lying?




And Wallace has 8 supercharger stalls.

So again actual facts prove you're not being honest in this discussion




I hope that ford has a tow hitch to help you with all the goalpost moving you're desperate to do now

I don't think you understand, there are more individual DC chargers in North Carolina then there are Individual Tesla Superchargers sites vs sites. Of course they are in the same city, but what about the ones that are close to me with DC fast charging that do not have a supercharger? Jacksonville, Greenville.

 

[MARKM3]

I am just amazed people are so willing to brush off this offering from Ford, open the blinders folks. This vehicle will sell well and the charging infrastructure and technology is pretty close to being on par with Tesla. The fact that I was always under the impression Tesla was 7-10 years ahead of everyone else was flat out fairy tail.

People are forgetting Tesla makes up only 1% of the market share in vehicles.

 

[Mr X]

I am just amazed people are so willing to brush off this offering from Ford, open the blinders folks. This vehicle will sell well and the charging infrastructure and technology is pretty close to being on par with Tesla. The fact that I was always under the impression Tesla was 7-10 years ahead of everyone else was flat out fairy tail.

People are forgetting Tesla makes up only 1% of the market share in vehicles.

Forgot about the Mucky


Model Y is coming out next month so.... Irrelevant. And it's just a Y knock off.


Ford who?

 

[Big Dog]

Mark:

your post has some reasonable assumptions, but the title is a yuuuge stretch. No way the Mach can be a "game changer" until it goes into mass production AND is adopted by the Dealer network. (not much maintenance/profit on e-vehicles.) Sure, the first limited product 50k will sell out, but come back when Ford starts rolling 20k/month off the line. (Assuming Ford can find the batteries. See: iPace which just stopped production due shortage of batteries.)

 

[MARKM3]

Mark:

your post has some reasonable assumptions, but the title is a yuuuge stretch. No way the Mach can be a "game changer" until it goes into mass production. Sure, the first limited product 50k will sell out, but come back when Ford starts rolling 20k/month off the line. (Assuming Ford can find the batteries. See: iPace which just stopped production due shortage of batteries.)

Great analysis. We will have to see what happens, because Batteries are in such high demand. I would imagine one of the big automakers partnering with LG or Samsung, in order to get it done. Similar to Tesla with Panasonic.

Ford will be selling the F series for a while from now, EV trucks are just not there yet and people will not buy those in mass quantity for the next ten years or so. I imagine unhooking a trailer to charge or losing 50-80% of rated range will deter most folks from that aspect.

Those trucks will need servicing so I imagine the service centers will stay busy for the next 50 years working on ICE.

 

[Knightshade]

I don't think you understand

No, we all understand.

You got caught in several explicit lies, citing your own words and then providing facts that showed them as lies.

And you now keep trying to move the goalposts rather than be an adult and admit you got your facts wrong.

, there are more individual DC chargers in North Carolina then there are Individual Tesla Superchargers sites vs sites. Of course they are in the same city, but what about the ones that are close to me with DC fast charging that do not have a supercharger? Jacksonville, Greenville.

See, great example here. You previously cited half a dozen cities "close to you" as examples of your point. Until it was explained that Tesla had far more superchargers in those cities than EA had fast chargers.

So now you're pretending you didn't get caught YET AGAIN and cherry picking 2 OTHER cities (which are 1.5 hours apart by the way, and both of which have 8-stall or larger supercharger stations less than an 1.5 hours away from them)

I am just amazed people are so willing to brush off this offering from Ford, open the blinders folks. This vehicle will sell well

it will sell 50,000 units the first year. Because Ford is physically unable to build more than that.

And most of those will be sold in Europe, not the US- as Ford has already stated.

Tesla sells 50,000 cars in roughly 7 weeks at current rates- likely much quicker as Y ramps up.

and the charging infrastructure and technology is pretty close to being on par with Tesla

They REALLY are not.

. The fact that I was always under the impression Tesla was 7-10 years ahead of everyone else was flat out fairy tail.

Also wrong.

For one Ford needs a nearly 100kw battery to ALMOST get as much range as Tesla does with a ~75 kwh one.

People are forgetting Tesla makes up only 1% of the market share in vehicles.

Yes. And the Mach E you're so excited about will max out production at less than 1/10th of Teslas production in 2020.

 

[MARKM3]

No, we all understand.

You got caught in several explicit lies, citing your own words and then providing facts that showed them as lies.

And you now keep trying to move the goalposts rather than be an adult and admit you got your facts wrong.




See, great example here. You previously cited half a dozen cities "close to you" as examples of your point. Until it was explained that Tesla had far more superchargers in those cities than EA had fast chargers.

So now you're pretending you didn't get caught YET AGAIN and cherry picking 2 OTHER cities (which are 1.5 hours apart by the way, and both of which have 8-stall or larger supercharger stations less than an 1.5 hours away from them)





it will sell 50,000 units the first year. Because Ford is physically unable to build more than that.

And most of those will be sold in Europe, not the US- as Ford has already stated.

Tesla sells 50,000 cars in roughly 7 weeks at current rates- likely much quicker as Y ramps up.

Uh, no you didn't understand my original post and meaning behind there are more individual DC chargers than individual Tesla chargers, but that is Ok and you do what you want. I did not disrespect you, but that's fine if you feel it is ok to disrespect me. You can't deny the fact that there is more to pick from with the DC network.

 

[MARKM3]

No, we all understand.

You got caught in several explicit lies, citing your own words and then providing facts that showed them as lies.

And you now keep trying to move the goalposts rather than be an adult and admit you got your facts wrong.




See, great example here. You previously cited half a dozen cities "close to you" as examples of your point. Until it was explained that Tesla had far more superchargers in those cities than EA had fast chargers.

So now you're pretending you didn't get caught YET AGAIN and cherry picking 2 OTHER cities (which are 1.5 hours apart by the way, and both of which have 8-stall or larger supercharger stations less than an 1.5 hours away from them)





it will sell 50,000 units the first year. Because Ford is physically unable to build more than that.

And most of those will be sold in Europe, not the US- as Ford has already stated.

Tesla sells 50,000 cars in roughly 7 weeks at current rates- likely much quicker as Y ramps up.




They REALLY are not.




Also wrong.

For one Ford needs a nearly 100kw battery to ALMOST get as much range as Tesla does with a ~75 kwh one.





Yes. And the Mach E you're so excited about will max out production at less than 1/10th of Teslas production in 2020.

Good point on the efficiency, we will see once real world range numbers come out. How will the Mach E fair in cold weather vs a tesla? According to Ford, the Mach E wall charger will charge at 32 miles per hour. How does that compare to Tesla Model Y? My model 3 does 44 miles per hour, so using that math the Mach E is roughly 37% less efficient, albeit different (suv vs car).

And yes how will they ramp production, we will see if ford takes it seriously or not. Are they committed? I think so since they are using the mustang name and a clean sheet design.