Mustang Mach E is a Gamechanger - My Opinion

[Runt8]

The biggest shock to me is that the OP is holding up Ford as the gold standard for quality. I’m not blind to the problems Tesla has in the interior department (although, minus one popping noise that the SC was able to fix I haven’t experienced any annoying squeaks or rattles), but Ford!

Going by my personal experience, I would place Tesla’s interior quality around the same as Acura, and below Lexus/Audi/MB/etc. Family members have owned several new Toyota’s and Honda’s who’s interiors are total crap. My brother went through a F150 phase and managed to break three of them in under 10 years. The interiors were complete garbage. And if you’re talking about technology (both the infotainment system and the motor/drivetrain), Tesla has them all beat by a mile.

Long story short, if you’re thinking Ford is going to produce a better quality car than Tesla “because they’ve been doing it longer” then you’re in for a rude awakening.

 

[Sertis]

this is a personal problem & not everyone has to be in 100% nannying the AP (smart cruise control)



Squeaks & rattles are best left to the car owners to sort out in my experience. There are plenty of YouTube Videos & chat board discussions covering the gamut of these issues where it's simple enough for a DIY owner.

Furthermore, it's a waste of time for a service center to chase down something that only you can hear & they can't replicate.



All of this is speculation as the Ford has not been real world tested for range.
They have not addressed their battery supply.
And the styling is subjective at best.

I think that if you look at any new EV manufacturer, anyone can match the specs of a Tesla vehicle with existing technology, but they cannot necessarily do that as profitably (we're speaking margin, not company profit, think Nio who outsources their manufacturing and their situation and as you mention battery supply markup). Going through that process of selling a high volume model to grow their expertise is absolutely necessary for every manufacturer. But people expecting the same level of service as for their conventional cars are likely to be surprised, as there are likely only a few certified technicians in every state considering there aren't enough vehicles in the fleet to justify wide scale tooling, and training is a poor substitute for actual experience at your local dealer. From an infrastructure perspective, Tesla is still 7-10 years ahead at least until the other manufacturer fleets hit the same fleet numbers since the fleet size and support infrastructure grow hand in hand. Porsche might be the exception, as their dealer network isn't as large as other manufacturers, so the investment to upgrade them to provide premium support for the Taycan would be significantly different than upgrading Ford's. In addition, they can accept outsource work from Volkswagen and Audi EVs on the same platform to help offset the costs.

 

[Uncle Paul]

This is the problems with comparing a car that already exists to one that is coming out in the future.

Existing cars have a reality. Their quality is known and forum owners are free to voice any problems that have come up with their car.

A future product seems perfect. Only information comes from the marketing company, which obviously tries to make everything seem as wonderful as possible.

It will ride like a dream, charging is every where. they have no mechanical/electrical issues. Service will be professional and spare parts readily available. Pictures will be specatular with great lighting and photo touching. the background music dramatic. Posted list prices will be compelling (disregarding typical additional dealership markups) and you can imagine driving in the color of your choice.

Then reality happens. Like Porsche, the shortcomings of EPA range and lack of travel charging are revealed. Ford dealers will put additonal markups on their stickers, the local chargers will be found to be broked down, Production will stop due to lack of batteries, Cars will wait in service bays for months due to shortages of repair parts, cars will be recalled etc.

In the beginning a new car is like the Wizard behind the green curtain. All smoke and mirrors, with the reality yet to be seen.

Reality is that Tesla has been an out of the box success. Initial issues are being addressed, and quality is improving. More and more Supercharging stations are being opened, additional Gigafactories are being opened at speeds formerly thought impossible. China is up and running (after Corona Virus pause), Germany has broken ground and Texas region is being planned.

The cars are keeping the promise of transforming the world away from carbon fuels into clean electric drive. Solar panels are being added to Superchargers and owners homes, more service stations and showrooms are being opened. Perhaps promises kept is becoming reality.

Ford is going to produce a good Electric Mustang. They will sell lots and be their first step getting more gassers off the road. They will have their issues as well, and Ford will work hard to address them as they become reality.

Building them in Mexico, and shipping them here, of course means no American jobs, but I guess than is for another discussion.

 

[Knightshade]

Uh, no you didn't understand my original post

Sure I do. You can tell because I quoted it back to you several times.

There are more 350KW electrify america chargers near me than tesla superchargers.

This has been proven false. Several times now.



This isn't about respect, it's about facts. Yours were not true.

You could be an adult, admit your original claim was wrong, and move on. Instead you keep compounding it and trying to move the goalposts to desperately find SOME measure by which you're not entirely wrong.

But you do you I guess.

 

[MARKM3]

This is the problems with comparing a car that already exists to one that is coming out in the future.

Existing cars have a reality. Their quality is known and forum owners are free to voice any problems that have come up with their car.

A future product is perfect. Only information comes from the marketing company, which obviously tries to make everything seem as wonderful as possible.

It will ride like a dream, charging is every where. they have no mechanical/electrical issues. Service will be professional and spare parts readily available. Pictures will be specatular with great lighting and photo touching. the background music dramatic. Posted list prices will be compelling (disregarding typical additional dealership markups) and you can imagine driving in the color of your choice.

Then reality happens. Like Porsche, the shortcomings of EPA range and lack of travel charging are revealed. Ford dealers will put additonal markups on their stickers, the local chargers will be found to be broked down, Production will stop due to lack of batteries, Cars will wait in service bays for months due to shortages of repair parts, cars will be recalled etc.

In the beginning a new car is like the Wizard behind the green curtain. All smoke and mirrors, with the reality yet to be seen.

Reality is that Tesla has been an out of the box success. Initial issues are being addressed, and quality is improving. More and more Supercharging stations are being opened, additional Gigafactories are being opened at speeds formerly thought impossible. China is up and running (after Corona Virus pause), Germany has broken ground and Texas region is being planned.

The cars are keeping the promise of transforming the world away from carbon fuels into clean electric drive. Solar panels are being added to Superchargers and owners homes, more service stations and showrooms are being opened. Perhaps promises kept is becoming reality.

Ford is going to produce a good Electric Mustang. They will sell lots and be the first step getting more gassers off the road. They will have their issues as well, and Ford will work hard to address them as they become reality.

Building them in Mexico, and shipping them here, of course means no American jobs, but I guess than is for another discussion.

Great points, and valuable discussion. I do not believe without a doubt this car will have it's own set of inherent challenges, and Ford will have to respond. I think it is also important to point out that with Tesla, they have not yet made a fiscal profit, understandably so since they are growing rapidly.

But assuming Ford mass produces this car in the hundreds of thousands, Electrify America builds up to 3000+ 350kw fast chargers in USA, and the car is a success - What does that do for Tesla? Does Tesla continue to gain market share, or do they sit at 1-2% because their cars are so expensive?

It is certainly very interesting.

 

[MARKM3]

Sure I do. You can tell because I quoted it back to you several times.




This has been proven false. Several times now.



This isn't about respect, it's about facts. Yours were not true.

You could be an adult, admit your original claim was wrong, and move on. Instead you keep compounding it and trying to move the goalposts to desperately find SOME measure by which you're not entirely wrong.

But you do you I guess.

So how many 350kw Tesla Superchargers are near me? None, OK wow.

How many DC fast charging locations are near me? 9 east of raleigh.

How many Superchargers are near me east of Raleigh? 8 locations.

Tesla has more individual chargers at these locations, but that is a mute point when there will overall be vastly more Electrify America/DC fast chargers in the next year. Especially when you must go out of your way to a Tesla Supercharger.

I must be a bad liar if I can somehow prove my statments that easily

 

[Az_Rael]

Greenville

Greenville looks to be Chademo only. I am not sure the Mach E will have a Chademo connector, something to be aware of.


@Knightshade I think the OP genuinely lives in an EV charger hole. I doubt the CCS network will be better, but the supercharger network is also sparse in that area. I get why they aren't enamoured with the supercharger network. I hardly use it as well and no longer consider it a must have for an EV.

CCS network on the coast of NC:

Supercharger network on the coast of NC:

 

[Knightshade]

So how many 350kw Tesla Superchargers are near me? None, OK wow.

yes, there are 0 imaginary products you didn't actually mention in your original post near you.

Move, move, move those goalposts man! MUCH easier than admitting you were caught being wrong isn't it?

 

[MARKM3]

Greenville looks to be Chademo only. I am not sure the Mach E will have a Chademo connector, something to be aware of.


@Knightshade I think the OP genuinely lives in an EV charger hole. I doubt the CCS network will be better, but the supercharger network is also sparse in that area. I get why they aren't enamoured with the supercharger network. I hardly use it as well and no longer consider it a must have for an EV.

CCS network on the coast of NC:
View attachment 510186

Supercharger network on the coast of NC:
View attachment 510187

Good post Az_Rael, thank you. The supercharging network is more widespread at the moment, but certainly not a value add in my area considering there are more individual DC chargers around.

 

[BulldogsRus]

I have pretty much none of the issues you cite with my Model 3. Not saying they don’t exist, but if you polled EVERY owner of ANY model of car, including Bentley and Rolls Royce, you’d find people who have issues with one thing or another.

LOL, this forum is the first forum I've ever been a part of (BMW, Audi, Benz and Lexus as owner) that literally had a sticky for "what issues to check for before picking up vehicle". And this is the first post ever with the words "Model 3" and "Bentley and Rolls Royce" in the same sentence!

 

[Knightshade]

@Knightshade I think the OP genuinely lives in an EV charger hole.

I don't.

He listed half a dozen cities originally with non-tesla charging "near" him- and then stopped talking about THOSE once I pointed out they all had MORE superchargers than EA chargers in them.... and instead only brought up 2 cities without superchargers.

Two cities 1.5 hours from each other, both of which have superchargers LESS than 1.5 hours from them.


He's desperately cherry picking to try and find some way his original claim doesn't look like nonsense, and not doing a very good job of it.


Double-funny when he tried to get off the topic by saying he barely uses DC fast chargers anyway so who cares?

(and indeed, fast chargers "near you" is a pretty useless measure anyway since most folks charge at home, but HE brought it up and is now mad his original claim was so easily debunked)

 

[Joshan]

I think it is also important to point out that with Tesla, they have not yet made a fiscal profit, understandably so since they are growing rapidly.

For what reason? what does it have to do with Ford Mustang EV and you saying it is a "game changer"?

 

[Uncle Paul]

While Tesla has recently turned the corner profit wise, they have been pouring most of their money back into increasing production and rolling out additional models and technology.

Would not point to profit at Ford as support for your argument. Acording to Yahoo."For full-year 2019, Ford posted overall revenues of $155.9 billion, down 3% year over year. Adjusted earnings per share tumbled 8.4% year over year to $1.19 per share. Wholesale volumes declined 10% year over year to 5,386,000. EBIT for the automotive segment fell 9.1% from a year ago to $4.9 billion in 2019"

Financially Tesla seems to be growing and getting more profitable, while Ford is under serious pressure.

It is obvious that Ford has stooped to copying Tesla design. Using Tesla skateboard design, choice of one motor or two, bringing out a small SUV to the sweet portion of the marketplace, using larger displays, capable of on road fast charging, driver assists for long distance and congested driving etc.

Bottom line. Without the success of Tesla, there would never have been an Electric Mustang.

 

[MARKM3]

yes, there are 0 imaginary products you didn't actually mention in your original post near you.

Move, move, move those goalposts man! MUCH easier than admitting you were caught being wrong isn't it?

For what reason? what does it have to do with Ford Mustang EV and you saying it is a "game changer"?

Because at some point, they have to be profitable for a full fiscal year to stay in business long term paying the debt down and that was in response to a discussion with Uncle. He posted some concerns about the Ford product, I posted concerns about the Tesla product.

 

[MARKM3]

While Tesla has recently turned the corner profit wise, they have been pouring most of their money back into increasing production and rolling out additional models and technology.

Would not point to profit at Ford as support for your argument. Acording to Yahoo."For full-year 2019, Ford posted overall revenues of $155.9 billion, down 3% year over year. Adjusted earnings per share tumbled 8.4% year over year to $1.19 per share. Wholesale volumes declined 10% year over year to 5,386,000. EBIT for the automotive segment fell 9.1% from a year ago to $4.9 billion in 2019"

Financially Tesla seems to be growing and getting more profitable, while Ford is under serious pressure.

It is obvious that Ford has stooped to copying Tesla design. Using Tesla skateboard design, choice of one motor or two, bringing out a small SUV to the sweet portion of the marketplace, using larger displays, capable of on road fast charging, driver assists for long distance and congested driving etc.

Bottom line. Without the success of Tesla, there would never have been an Electric Mustang.

Great facts, but Ford is also under a 11 billion restructuring program hurting their bottom line at the moment. They all have to spend money to make money, but Ford is proven profitability and been in business over 100 years. Their sales grew with the F series so that is a positive.

Tesla is also growing but profitability is still a concern. With scale, they should be able to get there but when? Ford copying Tesla was exactly what they needed to do to get market share in the EV world.

 

[Knightshade]

LOL, this forum is the first forum I've ever been a part of (BMW, Audi, Benz and Lexus as owner) that literally had a sticky for "what issues to check for before picking up vehicle"

Meanwhile, back in reality-
Detailed BMW Delivery Check List When You Pick Up

Detailed BMW Delivery Check List When You Pick Up

2011 RX-350 pre-delivery checklist - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

RX-350 pre-delivery checklist

Final Delivery Checklist

Final delivery checklist

New Vehicle Delivery Checklist - AudiWorld Forums

New Vehicle Delivery Checklist

 

[Joshan]

seems fitting

 

[Knightshade]

Tesla is also growing but profitability is still a concern. With scale, they should be able to get there but when?

Profitable 4 out of the last 6 quarters (during which time they also doubled the number of vehicle production factories they have), including the previous 2 quarters, and expected to remain so going forward.

 

[Knightshade]

But assuming Ford mass produces this car in the hundreds of thousands

Which they've explicitly said they're incapable of doing right now....

, Electrify America builds up to 3000+ 350kw fast chargers in USA, and the car is a success - What does that do for Tesla? Does Tesla continue to gain market share, or do they sit at 1-2% because their cars are so expensive?

If all that happened then Teslas wouldn't be more expensive.

Without the tax credit the Ford is more expensive (or roughly similar) in price spec for spec.

And all facts so far suggest the demand for good EVs is more than Tesla and Ford combined could fill because, again, batteries are in short supply and will remain so for year to come relative to demand for new cars. Tesla is just ahead of that game by a factor of at least 10x right now since they built their own factory years ago.

 

[BulldogsRus]

Meanwhile, back in reality-
Detailed BMW Delivery Check List When You Pick Up


2011 RX-350 pre-delivery checklist - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion


Final Delivery Checklist


New Vehicle Delivery Checklist - AudiWorld Forums

Those aren't issues like the ones I'm actually referring to here though, like: FWD creak, X glass ghosting, Model S loud thump, yellow border on screen, uneven paint/no paint on door sills, etc. The ones you link list things like: check for a scratch, full tank of gas, car mats, spare keys, etc.