Mustang Mach E is a Gamechanger - My Opinion

[Az_Rael]

Also, vertical screens are just a bad idea.

LOL, there are just a smidge of Model S/X owners that might take issue with that.

I like the fact that there is a 2nd screen. It is really nice when driving our S to have the navigation on the instrument cluster, music on the top half of the screen and the trip graph on the bottom. (Or it WAS nice before Tesla nerfed split screen for the S/X). I hate it on the 3 when I am navigating and my passenger is searching for music and I cant see the upcoming turns anymore.

 

[T3SLAROD]

I want to first preface this by explaining my ownership experience with my Model 3, my first EV, and share some of my thoughts since having the car for a year and a half. I think everyone on the forums can share in my opinion on the car and overall outlook. I absolutely love my model 3, and it has been one of the best cars I've ever owned and driven. However, there are several variables about owning a model 3 that have started to change my opinion about Tesla and the future outlook. Tesla is not really known for the car quality they build, but moreover a technology company and I'm seeing that part of the company become less valuable the longer I own the car. Let me explain:

1) Autopilot is awesome, but I find myself only using it roughly 10% of the time I drive. The nag every 10-15 seconds, and the fact that on non highway roads you're limited to the speed limit or less - have me just driving the car - and it is a blast to drive. On long road trips, using autopilot causes me to feel tired and I find myself driving for majority of the trip. Overall, the value of autopilot to me isn't really that great. The model 3 is a long ways from autonomy, at least 5 years away in my opinion from FSD.

2) The interior is holding up well over the past year, but there are constantly squeaks and rattles that annoy me and something I'm not use to from legacy automakers. The car build quality is not to par to other manufactures, but that is OK. I knew that going into it. Tesla is more of a technology company than a car company.

3) Having drive two hours away to the nearest service center for warranty work has been a pain over the last year, but I knew that going into ownership. It is annoying when it is over minor squeaks and rattles, but having a service center close by would be nice. Tesla service is not that great either, and the service center is always bumping full. They don't even do state inspections.

4) The SC network is very nice, but it has become less and less important to me now that I have driven an EV for a year. With most destinations I go to not having a SC, I find myself having to find wall outlets and third party charging networks to make traveling in the model 3 viable. In addition to having a home charger and a work charger, the SC network just doesn't add any value to me anymore. I had supercharging fever with my first EV, but since I own one now the value of that has dropped dramatically.

So where does the Mustang Mach E come into all of this? Well since the release of the Mach E three months ago, Ford has really garnered my attention with their EV offering. I was always under the impression that Tesla is 7-10 year ahead of all legacy automakers in the EV space, but wow was I wrong. Ford's first attempt at an EV is not only amazing, but it is downright genius and is a serious contender to those looking at purchasing a model Y. I have never owned a Ford in my life - but the Mustang Mach E checks all the boxes (range, performance, tech, design, service, etc.) and it has me seriously considering Ford's Mustang Mach E in a few years when it is time for an upgrade.


The Mustang Mach E with 300 miles will cost $45,000 MSRP after the tax credit. A model y similarly equipped will cost $53,000. The technology and design of the Mach E is almost to par with a Model Y, so I have to give credit where credit is due. Props Ford for an outstanding first full EV!

lol....that's all I can do is lol........

1) I agree.

2) Have you ever driven a Ford? If you think the Tesla interior build and quality is subpar wait until you get into the Mach-E. Just by the pictures you can tell it has hard plastics and the same cheap materials found in the rest of their lineup.

3) Again, have you owned a Ford and had to take it into a stealership, trying to convince the service advisor about whether it's covered under warranty or not? Tesla has Mobile Service which I have used often, they have replaced parts without questioning me about it, on a USED MODEL 3. Try doing that with Ford, it is not going to fly..

4) If Ford dealerships offer the charging capabilities without questioning why you are charging then you might have a point.

The Mustang Mach-E is overpriced when you start comparing it to the Model Y. The one thing I am curious about is the handling dynamics and on track performance. Will it be able to outperform a Model Y/3? Other than that, I am looking forward to the major Manufacturer incentives that will be offered in addition to the govt. $7500 tax credit. These will sit on lots as dealers start charging ADM the first couple of months

 

[WilliamG]

LOL, there are just a smidge of Model S/X owners that might take issue with that.

I like the fact that there is a 2nd screen. It is really nice when driving our S to have the navigation on the instrument cluster, music on the top half of the screen and the trip graph on the bottom. (Or it WAS nice before Tesla nerfed split screen for the S/X). I hate it on the 3 when I am navigating and my passenger is searching for music and I cant see the upcoming turns anymore.

Oh I'm sure the S/X owners will hate me for that opinion. That's fine with me. The vertical screen was one of several reasons I never bought a Model S.

Everyone's use case is different of course, but I can't think of a time where a passenger was using music so I couldn't see upcoming navigation. That seems like an edge case, though no less valid, of course.

 

[MARKM3]

Indeed, it mentions things like the quicker AWD versions will have a range of only about 240-250 miles- compared to 315 on the Model Y. This despite having a nearly 25% larger battery.

Also those aren't even coming until mid next year.

In fact none of the versions manage to match the 315 on the Y- with only 1 (the RWD Premium) getting to 300, and the rest in the 210-270 range....let alone the 322 on the Model 3.

And once you knock out the tax credit (which will be gone after Ford sells in the US about 20% of the cars Tesla hopes to sell in 2020 alone) it's priced about $4-10k higher than a comparable 3 or Y.

Interestingly, even WITH the tax credit the higher end cars fall a bit short compared to say a 3... the article says the GT will be $60,500 with a 0-60 of "less than 4" (so 3.9 likely).

Same as the rollout # of the LR AWD that sells for under 50k and has roughly 30% more range.

Hell the 3.5 0-60 (with rollout) LR AWD with boost is still cheaper than that Mach E WITH the tax break for only the Ford.



As I say- they'll still sell all they can make- because the demand for EVs that don't suck is much higher than the supply and Tesla at full tilt it gonna top out somewhere in the 500,000-600,000 range this year... so the ~10% of that a legacy vendor will be able to spit out will get eaten up as long as that's true (and the tax credit sticks around to make pricing halfway competitive).

But they're pretty clearly way behind Tesla on the most of the actual EV tech involved in the vehicle- needing much larger batteries to still offer lower range and generally lower performance for the $.


I WILL give them kudos for offering magnetic shocks, something I'd LOVE Tesla to do. On the other hand they're only offering it in one specific trim, the one that's priced even higher than the $60,500 one (no official price per your link) and not even coming out for another 16 months or more.

Well what I like about the Ford is that you have more options - you get to go with RWD and long range for $9,000 less then the Model Y when factoring the tax credit. The model Y will not let you get a RWD extended range. The GT is expected to do 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. Since they are planning OTA updates on it, I would imagine efficiency could improve just like they plan on improving their autopilot in the ford over time. Ford is a car company, they are going to have a ton of options and I expect it to grow once the car goes to mass production.

Also, I'd safely assume Ford is pricing the vehicle higher to get better margins like Tesla did, and will decrease it 7,500 when the tax credit is gone. They're saying EPA range is minimum 300 miles, but we will see. They are all minimum numbers, where they will sit is still unknown.

 

[Brando]

Expect fine quality from Mexican built Ford Mach E, right?
Bolt seems a fine car IF it meets your driving habits. It is a small city car or fine for most peoples daily commutes.
Only took Tesla a decade from 500/year Roadsters (hand built in UK Lotus + California - 2/day) to ~360,000/year.
Will Legacy auto companies take as long to ramp up? Will the Chevy Bolt ever make 200,000/year?

side note: autopilot is not Full Service Self Driving - Pilots gets it, some car drivers don't.
Above 40,000 people per year in the US are dead right - try not to be one of them. Keep you hands on the wheel, pay attention.

Interesting times. With about 80,000,000 vehicles made/year you have choices.

 

[thx1139]

Touchscreen looks big an pretty intuitive.

This type of interior annoys me. Lets scatter controls all over. Lets put some on the wheel. Lets put some on the screen. Lets put some below the screen. Lets put some by the arm rest.

Why?

 

[Uncle Paul]

Evidently OP is going to argue forever that the Ford is going to be the best car...for him.

He is welcome to buy one.

Leave us alone.

 

[MARKM3]

This type of interior annoys me. Lets scatter controls all over. Lets put some on the wheel. Lets put some on the screen. Lets put some below the screen. Lets put some by the arm rest.

Why?

You probably hate the design of the S/X then I would assume

 

[MARKM3]

Evidently OP is going to argue forever that the Ford is going to be the best car...for him.

He is welcome to buy one.

Leave us alone.

Negative, but It makes for fun discussion on why we value our Tesla's at a premium price. I am really not sure if I would rather have a $45,000 Mach E RWD 300 miles vs Model Y 315 miles AWD at $53,000, and before they announced it would have been Model Y all the way. I think that is what has me so amazed at Ford's offering. We are actually considering it viable, and a good alternative to Tesla.

 

[Bill Foster]

I like all the assumptions in the original post.

 

[MARKM3]

I like all the assumptions in the original post.

Which ones?

 

[Knightshade]

The GT is expected to do 0-60 in 3.5 seconds.

No, the standard GT is just "under 4" which reads as 3.9. Which is what the LR AWD Model 3 does today before the $2000 acceleration boost.

It's the even-more-than-60-grand GT Performance that does 3.5. Which is what the LR AWD with the 2k boost does for about 51k.

T
Since they are planning OTA updates on it, I would imagine efficiency could improve just like they plan on improving their autopilot in the ford over time.

Also no-

Ford's Mustang Mach-E is a "new era" for software updates, CTO says

Ford's OTA updates in the 2021 Mustang Mach-E begins with infotainment systems, Washington said. It doesn't reach into the systems controlling how the Mustang Mach-E starts, stops or steers.

So initially at least OTA updates can't touch any of the actual driving bits on the car. Just which streaming music you can get and such.

The NEXT version, they hope, will do more.

 

[Spacep0d]

I want to first preface this by explaining my ownership experience with my Model 3, my first EV, and share some of my thoughts since having the car for a year and a half. I think everyone on the forums can share in my opinion on the car and overall outlook. I absolutely love my model 3, and it has been one of the best cars I've ever owned and driven. However, there are several variables about owning a model 3 that have started to change my opinion about Tesla and the future outlook. Tesla is not really known for the car quality they build, but moreover a technology company and I'm seeing that part of the company become less valuable the longer I own the car. Let me explain:

1) Autopilot is awesome, but I find myself only using it roughly 10% of the time I drive. The nag every 10-15 seconds, and the fact that on non highway roads you're limited to the speed limit or less - have me just driving the car - and it is a blast to drive. On long road trips, using autopilot causes me to feel tired and I find myself driving for majority of the trip. Overall, the value of autopilot to me isn't really that great. The model 3 is a long ways from autonomy, at least 5 years away in my opinion from FSD.

2) The interior is holding up well over the past year, but there are constantly squeaks and rattles that annoy me and something I'm not use to from legacy automakers. The car build quality is not to par to other manufactures, but that is OK. I knew that going into it. Tesla is more of a technology company than a car company.

3) Having drive two hours away to the nearest service center for warranty work has been a pain over the last year, but I knew that going into ownership. It is annoying when it is over minor squeaks and rattles, but having a service center close by would be nice. Tesla service is not that great either, and the service center is always bumping full. They don't even do state inspections.

4) The SC network is very nice, but it has become less and less important to me now that I have driven an EV for a year. With most destinations I go to not having a SC, I find myself having to find wall outlets and third party charging networks to make traveling in the model 3 viable. In addition to having a home charger and a work charger, the SC network just doesn't add any value to me anymore. I had supercharging fever with my first EV, but since I own one now the value of that has dropped dramatically.

So where does the Mustang Mach E come into all of this? Well since the release of the Mach E three months ago, Ford has really garnered my attention with their EV offering. I was always under the impression that Tesla is 7-10 year ahead of all legacy automakers in the EV space, but wow was I wrong. Ford's first attempt at an EV is not only amazing, but it is downright genius and is a serious contender to those looking at purchasing a model Y. I have never owned a Ford in my life - but the Mustang Mach E checks all the boxes (range, performance, tech, design, service, etc.) and it has me seriously considering Ford's Mustang Mach E in a few years when it is time for an upgrade.


The Mustang Mach E with 300 miles will cost $45,000 MSRP after the tax credit. A model y similarly equipped will cost $53,000. The technology and design of the Mach E is almost to par with a Model Y, so I have to give credit where credit is due. Props Ford for an outstanding first full EV!

You didn't explain any specifics about the Mach E. What about the range? What about the performance? What about the charging network? What about the design or service? There's no information here as it pertains to your opinion about this vehicle. Care to elaborate?

 

[Bill Foster]

Which ones?

That the ford interior will be better

That they are close on tech

That Ford service will be better

Lastly, while you may not use Super Chargers much, lots of people on road trips do. The GP is scared of range anxiety still and not having convenient (and fast) charging stations along normal driving routes will still be a major issue.

This is not to say that in a few years they will not improve but to think a first gen electric car sold by dealers who have never worked on electric cars is going to be great right off the bat is kinda asinine

 

[MARKM3]

No, the standard GT is just "under 4" which reads as 3.9. Which is what the LR AWD Model 3 does today before the $2000 acceleration boost.

It's the even-more-than-60-grand GT Performance that does 3.5. Which is what the LR AWD with the 2k boost does for about 51k.





Also no-

Ford's Mustang Mach-E is a "new era" for software updates, CTO says



So initially at least OTA updates can't touch any of the actual driving bits on the car. Just which streaming music you can get and such.

The NEXT version, they hope, will do more.

Yeah that's interesting, because I read that they will update the autopilot over the air as more roads are mapped. So I'm confused as to what is going on here with this specific article.

I personally don't mind going 0-60s in mid 6s or a few seconds slower than the AWD Y for $9,000 less. You do sort of get what you pay for I recon. We can't really compare Model 3 to Mustang Mach E, Should compare Model Y to Mach E. The model Y will do 0-60 in 4.8 seconds @ 53k and possibly for 55K will do it in low to mid 4's with software update.

 

[Sertis]

LOL, this forum is the first forum I've ever been a part of (BMW, Audi, Benz and Lexus as owner) that literally had a sticky for "what issues to check for before picking up vehicle". And this is the first post ever with the words "Model 3" and "Bentley and Rolls Royce" in the same sentence!

It's true, but that's more a result of the direct to customer model, without a dealer as a middleman checking on the product from the factory, the customer becomes responsible for that. I'm pretty used to owning that process for all my other purchases, (computers, electronics, houses, decor). "Unwrapping" and checking the condition is pretty much the norm these days, and using that 30 day return policy if something isn't right.

 

[MARKM3]

That the ford interior will be better

That they are close on tech

That Ford service will be better

Lastly, while you may not use Super Chargers much, lots of people on road trips do. The GP is scared of range anxiety still and not having convenient (and fast) charging stations along normal driving routes will still be a major issue.

This is not to say that in a few years they will not improve but to think a first gen electric car sold by dealers who have never worked on electric cars is going to be great right off the bat is kinda asinine

Of course I'm assuming those things, Ford has been servicing customers and building vehicles for over 100 years. They don't have the best selling truck in the world because the quality is terrible and their service is terrible. We can make assumptions like those because they are a tried and true brand that was the only American car company to survive the recent recession.

The Electrify America Map looks very good as well, and will soon be up to 3000+ fast chargers capable of up to 350kw supercharging by the end of this year. They are expanding much more rapidly then Tesla Superchargers. Their coverage is already pretty darn good, good enough I wouldn't lose any sleep going with a Mach E over the charging infrastructure.

But yes, the dealers selling them will take a while. Most people will order this car online and go pick it up at the dealership once it is delivered. Don't even get me started on my Model 3 delivery which was a disaster, in a parking lot in Raleigh with a 20 minute look over the car and bye bye don't call us again email us if you have any problems during the December 2019 push.

 

[Knightshade]

Of course I'm assuming those things, Ford has been servicing customers and building vehicles for over 100 years. They don't have the best selling truck in the world because the quality is terrible and their service is terrible.

On the other hand they've largely abandoned selling sedans because they were getting crushed by everyone else on those.

So we can't really assume all models are equal.

For that matter- Tesla has the best selling EV in the world- I guess their quality and service must ALSO be great by that line of thinking right?

The Electrify America Map looks very good as well, and will soon be up to 3000+ fast chargers capable of up to 350kw supercharging by the end of this year

Which is irrelevant since the Mach E can't actually charge that fast- and can't charge at all at the large # of Chademo chargers out there.

The Ford per your own source says it adds 47 miles of range in about 10 minutes.

A V3 supercharger adds almost 150 miles in that amount of time. Even the V2 chargers are much faster than the Ford can charge.

In part of course because the Tesla is a lot more efficient EV.

They are expanding much more rapidly then Tesla Superchargers

You kind of have to when you're that far behind.

 

[MARKM3]

On the other hand they've largely abandoned selling sedans because they were getting crushed by everyone else on those.

So we can't really assume all models are equal.

For that matter- Tesla has the best selling EV in the world- I guess their quality and service must ALSO be great by that line of thinking right?




Which is irrelevant since the Mach E can't actually charge that fast- and can't charge at all at the large # of Chademo chargers out there.

The Ford per your own source says it adds 47 miles of range in about 10 minutes.

A V3 supercharger adds almost 150 miles in that amount of time. Even the V2 chargers are much faster than the Ford can charge.

In part of course because the Tesla is a lot more efficient EV.




You kind of have to when you're that far behind.

And where is the nearest V3 supercharger? When Is tesla going to update ours to V3? There are several 350KW chargers nearby and whether the car can accept it or not doesn't really matter when Tesla doesn't plan on updating any of ours to 350kw any time soon. By the time Ford comes out with that capability, they may only have a few big city SC updated in the state.

150KW is plenty fast for me, going from 10-80 in 45 minutes is good enough for my once every six month road trip.

The product is what sells a Tesla, not the service, fit and finish, etc. Tesla has not made me a Tesla fanboy, I am not a die hard Tesla fanatic. They have many issues they need to address if they want to stay ahead. Even their employees will say the car sales itself. What will people do when they get in the Mach E and drive it and it handles and responds like a Tesla? Will it sell itself? That is really what sold me on my Model 3. Now I know how terrible the delivery and service side of their business is, it's nothing I would look forward to when purchasing a new vehicle from them.

 

[Az_Rael]

So initially at least OTA updates can't touch any of the actual driving bits on the car.

I thought the hands free driving system (Fords AP) was going to be an OTA update. Car ships with the sensors, but they add software later. Maybe those will require service visits ala HW3 tho.

The ONE thing other manufacturers shouldn't copy Tesla on is selling AP-like systems before they are delivered. And yet here we are.