My Auto-park malfunctioned and Tesla denied it

[Tam]

...conclusion...

We can assume but it's hard to know exactly what happened until there's driver's video with audio recording or complete Tesla's log.

It's unknown who was verbally saying that the log showed that there was never an activation of Autopark (titles and qualifications.)

It would be more useful if Tesla would physically show the driver the complete car's log and explain what it meant and when the event started and stopped.

However, Tesla is under no obligation to do that because it's a courtesy and the law is on Tesla's side even if the Autopark can be malfunctioned as expected of in a beta run.

 

[StealthP3D]

We can assume but it's hard to know exactly what happened until there's driver's video with audio recording or complete Tesla's log.

I thought I made myself clear that my conclusion was based only on the information presented in this thread. Clearly, new information could change my mind.

 

[rayyu510]

We can assume but it's hard to know exactly what happened until there's driver's video with audio recording or complete Tesla's log.

It's unknown who was verbally saying that the log showed that there was never an activation of Autopark (titles and qualifications.)

It would be more useful if Tesla would physically show the driver the complete car's log and explain what it meant and when the event started and stopped.

However, Tesla is under no obligation to do that because it's a courtesy and the law is on Tesla's side even if the Autopark can be malfunctioned as expected of in a beta run.

Well said and informative, Tam. I got the response from my local service center by the service manager, who just read the notes from engineering but it's missing some information, e.g. I did manual switch from forward to reverse and the note said the same, but the Autopark was engaged while the car was already in the backup into the parking spot. The difference is that the note said all functions worked as they intend. I will request Tesla to have further review of the logs for the duration until it fully stopped.
However, I disagree on Tesla under no obligation of showing the logs. We paid for autopilot feature, right? It would be fine if they won't take responsibility of the incident, but they are obligated to disclose the full logs.

 

[rayyu510]

I thought I made myself clear that my conclusion was based only on the information presented in this thread. Clearly, new information could change my mind.

will see how it goes. I will post any new findings to share with you all.

 

[Tam]

...We paid...

Yes. But who owns the data is quite dicey. There's a push for owners to own vehicle data but in the meantime:

"The OEMs own and control the data because when most people purchase vehicles they have to sign contracts which give the new owners the right to the vehicle- but not the data within the vehicle. Because of this the car data is owned by the OEM, not the driver."

 

[Tam]

"all functions worked as they intend"

I've heard that standard phrase so many times whenever there was an Autopilot/summon/autopark accident.

It's a euphemism and legal way to say that it's legally intended for the driver to take the blame whenever there's a mishap each and every time, no fail!

That's exactly how the legal system works.

 

[rayyu510]

Yes. But who owns the data is quite dicey. There's a push for owners to own vehicle data but in the meantime:

"The OEMs own and control the data because when most people purchase vehicles they have to sign contracts which give the new owners the right to the vehicle- but not the data within the vehicle. Because of this the car data is owned by the OEM, not the driver."

Yeah, in all normal circumstances it's fine the owner won't have to own the data, however in my situation, they should disclose the information I'm requesting. They did but it's incomplete or false to say the least. I will continue to dig into this until either side exhausted.

 

[SDRick]

What stumps me as much as the data mystery is how can a very slow impact result in a $5,000 repair?

 

[Peteski]

I use parallel Autopark regularly, but I hover my foot right above the brake pedal and watch it like a hawk! I've noticed in some scenarios it doesn't always stop when reversing - like when there's a kerb behind the car. A few times I've had to step in and brake. I would never trust it by itself and that's why I've never used Summon! The tech is cool, but certainly not foolproof.

Hope Tesla come round to sorting out your apparent failure.

 

[shinytop]

Many of you may be too young to know that it used to be like pulling teeth to get your medical data and results of tests from Dr's and treatment centers. Now it is the law and they must post results and procedures to the web so you may access them.

I think we may be on the verge of something similar here, where the auto companies will be required to share this data. In this case it would obviously be easiest to have part of the software show us the data or download to a computer with a program to read it for us.

 

[MelaniainLA]

Everyone: AutoPark, in its current form, uses ONLY the ultrasonic sensors and NOT the cameras. Elon Musk conformed this. This explains why you need to be between two cars. The cameras are not used! Yet.

New version of AutoPark will rely on both cameras AND ultrasonic sensors, which should vastly improve the feature!

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

When I shifted to reverse gear to back in the parking spot, there is a sound and also a display on the main dashboard with "Start" button for Auto-parking.

This is the first inconsistency. There is no sound that is played when autopark is available.

I actually wasn't able to push the button the first time

This is probably because you were moving. Once you start to move, you can no longer select "start."

but it showed up again after the backup was started

If you are moving (as you imply in this case), "start" would not show up again. Instead "not this time" would appear. Are you certain you didn't confirm "not this time?"

Everything you describe is consistent with Tesla's assertion that autopark was not engaged. And the person outside of the vehicle, which you cite as a witness, would have no idea if autopark was engaged either.

Since this was your first time using the feature, it is reasonable how you could have experienced "mode confusion." But Tesla has no reason to lie in this case. Please consider that they are being truthful and you just made a mistake.

 

[StealthP3D]

This is the first inconsistency. There is no sound that is played when autopark is available.


This is probably because you were moving. Once you start to move, you can no longer select "start."


If you are moving (as you imply in this case), "start" would not show up again. Instead "not this time" would appear. Are you certain you didn't confirm "not this time?"

Everything you describe is consistent with Tesla's assertion that autopark was not engaged. And the person outside of the vehicle, which you cite as a witness, would have no idea if autopark was engaged either.

Since this was your first time using the feature, it is reasonable how you could have experienced "mode confusion." But Tesla has no reason to lie in this case. Please consider that they are being truthful and you just made a mistake.

Thank you for detailing, in a clear and logical manner, most of the reasons I concluded the Tesla engineers were correct when they said the logs showed "Autopark" was never engaged. But the human mind is a funny thing. It wants to be right all the time and it over-estimates the accuracy of it's memory. Which is why computors and machines will be able to outperform the average human in short order.

 

[SDRick]

...the human mind is a funny thing. It wants to be right all the time and it over-estimates the accuracy of it's memory. Which is why computors and machines will be able to outperform the average human in short order.

Now that's quotable!

 

[jboy210]

.... But the human mind is a funny thing. It wants to be right all the time and it over-estimates the accuracy of it's memory. Which is why computors and machines will be able to outperform the average human in short order.

I read somewhere that 85% of drivers rate their driving ability as above average and above median.

 

[Mod3forMe]

But the human mind is a funny thing. It wants to be right all the time and it over-estimates the accuracy of it's memory. Which is why computors and machines will be able to outperform the average human in short order.

Not so much true, VERY true for some specific tasks but the vast majority of tasks computers have a silly large distance to go to match let alone exceed humans.

 

[StealthP3D]

Not so much true, VERY true for some specific tasks but the vast majority of tasks computers have a silly large distance to go to match let alone exceed humans.

This task involved determining whether Autopark was engaged or not. I trust the computor logs over human recall. For more complex tasks, you are correct. But computors are closing the gap silly fast. The improvements I've seen in EAP over just the previous 8 months have been stupendous.

 

[rayyu510]

This is the first inconsistency. There is no sound that is played when autopark is available.


This is probably because you were moving. Once you start to move, you can no longer select "start."


If you are moving (as you imply in this case), "start" would not show up again. Instead "not this time" would appear. Are you certain you didn't confirm "not this time?"

Everything you describe is consistent with Tesla's assertion that autopark was not engaged. And the person outside of the vehicle, which you cite as a witness, would have no idea if autopark was engaged either.

Since this was your first time using the feature, it is reasonable how you could have experienced "mode confusion." But Tesla has no reason to lie in this case. Please consider that they are being truthful and you just made a mistake.

First of all, thank you for writing the long notes. But what you have said is plain wrong with regards to what have happened to me. The "start" button did pop up twice and I pressed it when it showed up the second time. If it's unintended behavior, then it's a bug of the feature. That probably explained why Tesla guys didn't see the alert from the logs. But it doesn't mean it worked as intended. I thought they could lie initially, but after someone said it could be the case the alerts are not captured by the system, then I believed what he said but now I'm asking for more information from Tesla. As to witness, she couldn't prove if it's autopark engaged, but she did notice how it moved that's not typically how human being drove to park the car.

 

[rayyu510]

What stumps me as much as the data mystery is how can a very slow impact result in a $5,000 repair?

the parts costs about $2000 something that include the lift door and most of the parts below the doors. The body shop only replace those parts. the rest are the labor as they said it's very difficult to remove and reinstall the parts. The auto shop is Service King, which has contract with Tesla over the body repair.

 

[rayyu510]

I use parallel Autopark regularly, but I hover my foot right above the brake pedal and watch it like a hawk! I've noticed in some scenarios it doesn't always stop when reversing - like when there's a kerb behind the car. A few times I've had to step in and brake. I would never trust it by itself and that's why I've never used Summon! The tech is cool, but certainly not foolproof.

Hope Tesla come round to sorting out your apparent failure.

in my case the backup works perfectly but it didn't stop by itself. I didn't put my foot on brake with belief it will do the job just fine. I also stopped using Summon as it didn't work correctly at home. A couple of times it almost hit garage door so I don't believe it will be functioning right. even a single time of malfunction will cost big money to repair.