Ant M3
Member
Hi ya, thanks for the reply ,… what does expectations mean in this context ? Tesla mention threshold on their letter … i.e they state that they doubt it would meet the threshold
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My experience taking Tesla to court about FSD
- Thread starter edb49
- Start date
Not saying this is the case but it's not unusual for litigants to make claims that are superficially plausible (e.g. bearing other side's legal costs in small claims) or designed to disincentivise or demoralise you, so you back out. Legal letters are cheaper than going to court.
Rather than me try to explain Difference Between Commercial Agreements and Consumer Agreements?
This is where due diligence comes in.
I don’t think it helps them TBH. In common law contract law if a misrepresentation induced the contract they’re still liable.
If thats the best they’ve got, ask them what knowledge your company supposedly had about Tesla’s development of FSD in the UK. Tesla investor day videos and Elon’s tweets don’t help their case.
Just add, misrepresentation might be one vector but you get into the debate about what you and Tesla did or didn’t know. Can you prove Tesla knew it wouldn’t deliver on FSD in a reasonable time? (As an example).
Simple breach of contract for failure to perform or defective performance is probably easier - you just have to argue they haven’t fulfilled a contractual obligation. A reasonable person would expect to benefit from the feature within the average car ownership/lease term for a car. Etc
Simple breach of contract for failure to perform or defective performance is probably easier - you just have to argue they haven’t fulfilled a contractual obligation. A reasonable person would expect to benefit from the feature within the average car ownership/lease term for a car. Etc
Pagemakers
Active Member
I think it's slightly more nuanced than that... Tesla would have to show why they genuinely believed they could deliver the feature in 2019, in evidence. I am pretty sure there's evidence out there to the contrary, e.g. Tesla staff begging Elon Musk not to make the promises he did about FSD at the time. (Others may remember this too, I read it some time ago.) I also think the likelihood that Tesla would want to present this evidence in a UK court is close to zero.
Thanks everyone who has contacted me on direct message here, email, Facebook, etc. I have been trying to keep on top of all the many messages I've had, and wondering about the best way of supporting everyone.
I have a question to ask. Is there any interest in pursuing a group litigation? This is broadly similar to a "class action" in the US. A law firm would pursue the case on behalf of all the consumers, and it would be a specific case - e.g. everyone who bought FSD in 2019/2020. (So if your complaint is about USS then it's not something you could join.) The lawyers would be on a conditional fee arrangement a.k.a. "no win, no fee". If you won, the lawyers' fee would be a percentage of the compensation Tesla paid.
An example of a recent group litigation is one against easyJet, info here:
www.leighday.co.uk
If you are interested in a group litigation please reply on here or email/DM me.
I have a question to ask. Is there any interest in pursuing a group litigation? This is broadly similar to a "class action" in the US. A law firm would pursue the case on behalf of all the consumers, and it would be a specific case - e.g. everyone who bought FSD in 2019/2020. (So if your complaint is about USS then it's not something you could join.) The lawyers would be on a conditional fee arrangement a.k.a. "no win, no fee". If you won, the lawyers' fee would be a percentage of the compensation Tesla paid.
An example of a recent group litigation is one against easyJet, info here:
easyJet Data Breach - Claim Compensation | Leigh Day
Think your data has been leaked in the easyJet Data Breach? Our experts can help! Claim today with Leigh Day. Call 020 7650 1200 to find out more.
www.leighday.co.uk
If you are interested in a group litigation please reply on here or email/DM me.
To note, if you go down the group route, this is not a decision to be taken light heatedly.
If you win, you will probably have to handover 50% of the compensation to cover their legal/administrative fees, if not potentially more because of the relatively small number of you looking to take action.
You will get more if you take your own case via small claims which is designed to be relatively simple.
If you win, you will probably have to handover 50% of the compensation to cover their legal/administrative fees, if not potentially more because of the relatively small number of you looking to take action.
You will get more if you take your own case via small claims which is designed to be relatively simple.
Correct - the compensation you're handing over will depend on the number of claims, hence I was asking here. For many people it will be too much effort to run the claim themselves though, so it may be a good option. Also, the claim *should* be pretty simple which minimises costs.
MrBadger
Badger out
Absolutely not. The only people that anything decent from class action is those that negotiate it.
They may be suitable for marginal situations where fighting the case may take a considerable amount of subject knowledge and time, but when you have clear breach of UK consumer law and the third party does not have a leg to stand on, the risk is far less and the rewards for the what is limited effort is easier to realise. A class action is very likely to result in the return of a very small % of actual damages.
Apparently when I bought my model 3 I signed a Motor Vehicle Order Agreement (MVOA) which contained this text:
… Prior agreements, oral statements, negotiations, communications or representations about the Vehicle sold under this Agreement are superseded by this Agreement. Terms relating to the purchase not expressly contained herein are not binding … "
This appears to attempt to indemnify Tesla against being held to anything they say anywhere else pre-sale about the vehicle's current or future capability. Surely that can't be right - it would allow them to say *anything* - they could promise all sorts.
… Prior agreements, oral statements, negotiations, communications or representations about the Vehicle sold under this Agreement are superseded by this Agreement. Terms relating to the purchase not expressly contained herein are not binding … "
This appears to attempt to indemnify Tesla against being held to anything they say anywhere else pre-sale about the vehicle's current or future capability. Surely that can't be right - it would allow them to say *anything* - they could promise all sorts.
You're not the first person to get that in their response. They can say whatever they like in the agreement, but the Consumer Rights Act 2015 trumps the MVOA. They will 100% know this, their lawyers too, and it's cynical and unethical in my opinion for them to try and mislead you like this.
You are right in your analysis. It's similar to saying in the MVOA that you are not allowed to take them to court... they cannot take away rights that parliament has given to you.
Happy to help you draft a response etc. if you like.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
But what about the company purchasers where the CRA does not apply? could this be a get out of jail for Tesla with them where its more about breach of contract?
The CRA is just the legislation I brought my claim under... a company purchase would follow a different path through a claim but I don't think that Tesla's MVOA would prevent a company from claiming under other legislation and common law.
Hi DurzelI sent my LBA off today, took great care in doing it, even found an envelope with a window for Tesla's address to show through, no handwriting involved.
...and I forgot to actually sign the letter at the bottom, so it just has my printed name on it
I am planning to lodge a claim for my FSD purchase in June 2019.
Prior to sending a LBA, how did you contact Tesla?
Is there an email contact or phone number?
Also, my claim is slightly different, in that I traded in the car with Tesla in June 2022 for a new Model Y.
[email protected]
You should quantify the additional trade in value you got for FSD when you bought your Model Y, then subtract it from what you paid for FSD. Your claim is actually tidier than mine because you've sold the car.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
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