My request that the Arizona Attorney General's office investigate Tesla's changes to Ludicrous Mode

[Jeffgtx]

The 100 upgrade was offered when the 100 was announced. Unfulfilled 90 orders could upgrade to 100 for 10k and delivered 90 cars could upgrade for 20k. But there has been no info since that I am aware of (one full year later).

How do you know we won't get to do it?

(Upgrade applied to P cars only)

 

[St Charles]

I do wonder if the problem with the P90DL batteries is a legitimate design flaw or just a case of safety margin just a little too close.

Also, we've all seen this before: http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins

 

[zanary]

The 100 upgrade was offered when the 100 was announced. Unfulfilled 90 orders could upgrade to 100 for 10k and delivered 90 cars could upgrade for 20k. But there has been no info since that I am aware of (one full year later).

How do you know we won't get to do it?

(Upgrade applied to P cars only)

On the Tesla Worldwide Owners Facebook group, a few others have completed their $10K upgrade from P90DL to P100D. I have yet to hear anyone doing the $20K upgrade.

There's another post on TMC regarding this. Apparently service centers have a list of VINs that quality for the $20K upgrade, so those owners will receive some sort of communication in the coming month to judge interest in the upgrade.

From what was discuss very early on, looks like you needed a v3 battery and Air Suspension at a minimum, but we have no official communication as to the minimum requirements for the upgrade.

 

[Walta]

On the Tesla Worldwide Owners Facebook group, a few others have completed their $10K upgrade from P90DL to P100D. I have yet to hear anyone doing the $20K upgrade.

There's another post on TMC regarding this. Apparently service centers have a list of VINs that quality for the $20K upgrade, so those owners will receive some sort of communication in the coming month to judge interest in the upgrade.

From what was discuss very early on, looks like you needed a v3 battery and Air Suspension at a minimum, but we have no official communication as to the minimum requirements for the upgrade.

If it is true that only V3 owners can upgrade to 100 kw? How much more can a V1 owner go through with this car? I guess V2 owners should be frustrated also relating to this info. Tesla should just punt on the whole P90DL mistake. It was never ready for prime time. Put together an upgrade package at a reasonable price for all P90DL owners... kind of like what they did for the P85DL owners. $10K would be a fair price. I would expect every P90DL owner would jump at that offer... and walk away with a car worth the money they paid. It would bring back the good feeling we had with the Tesla company we all were so impressed by in the earlier days... that was focused heavily on customer satisfaction.

 

[n2mb_racing]

If it is true that only V3 owners can upgrade to 100 kw? How much more can a V1 owner go through with this car? I guess V2 owners should be frustrated also relating to this info. Tesla should just punt on the whole P90DL mistake. It was never ready for prime time. Put together an upgrade package at a reasonable price for all P90DL owners... kind of like what they did for the P85DL owners. $10K would be a fair price. I would expect every P90DL owner would jump at that offer... and walk away with a car worth the money they paid. It would bring back the good feeling we had with the Tesla company we all were so impressed by in the earlier days... that was focused heavily on customer satisfaction.

Hmm. I guess I don't feel as negatively about the P90DL vs P100DL. I chose to buy my P90DL on the day the P100DL was announced, so I knew I wasn't going to have the latest and greatest, but I got a big discount for an inventory car in return.

 

[Walta]

Hmm. I guess I don't feel as negatively about the P90DL vs P100DL. I chose to buy my P90DL on the day the P100DL was announced, so I knew I wasn't going to have the latest and greatest, but I got a big discount for an inventory car in return.

Since I have lived through being an early owner of the P90DL - and experienced a lot of morphing of that product since I bought it in Sept 2015? I do feel that the only true P90DL product would be one with a V3 battery that would perform as spec'd simply by selecting ludicrous mode. Since that does not exist - the next best thing is the current P90DL V3 product. All the other versions of the P90DL are not worth the money paid.
I don't know a lot about the P100DL - only what I have read from TMC. It appears that owners seem happy with their purchase, though again I am guessing. It seems the performance numbers are quite amazing.
So if I could upgrade for $10K to the 100 kw I would think that a better value over keeping the V1 or V2 version, and even the V3 if you consider the risk that hard driving might damage the battery. Just my opinion... I understand that while the car might not meet the spec's a lot of P90D owners really love the car, and are not wound around the axle about it coming a couple tenths of a second short of spec.

 

[JohnnyG]

... My numbers were higher. I've always been in the 445 to 460 range since day 1. This is with Tesla OS 7.x, up to and include the latest 8.1 release from last week. I'm using PowerTools to get these numbers. Don't have access to any other device to obtain the numbers I have posted...

Aww crud... I fat fingered... I meant 457kW. That's what I get for trying to type on a small phone...

 

[JohnnyG]

Hmm. I guess I don't feel as negatively about the P90DL vs P100DL. I chose to buy my P90DL on the day the P100DL was announced, so I knew I wasn't going to have the latest and greatest, but I got a big discount for an inventory car in return.

I think all of the P90DL owners would feel great, ecstatic even, if we had the V3 battery, which delivers what we thought we were getting and paid for. I may have still purchased the P90DL, as you did, when the P100DL was released, and been very happy with it, because then I would have been getting exactly what I paid for. The problem exists for all the folks that purchased prior to the "fix" being released (quietly installing a different battery to finally obtain the advertised specs). These owners not only were never delivered the product that they thought they were buying, but also are now not able to upgrade along side the other P90DL owners (V2/V3) and finally get what they truly wanted in the first place.

I believe I read in another thread here on TMC a couple months ago, that some owners who were on the list were contacted by Tesla about the upgrade, and the verbiage stated only refresh cars (V2/V3) and only if you have SAS.

 

[brianman]

Another gripe I have that has not been satisfied with the ludicrous mode option is that when it was sold to me the only requirement for full power was to select ludicrous mode... nothing else. For me that was worth the price of admission. Not so much with the wait for MBR etc.

I'm having mixed feelings on the need to turn on MBR, but at least there's not a time-limited pedal dance required.

 

[brianman]

I've lost track...

What's the current recommend hardware and/or software to get power delivery numbers? Also, are the REST telemetry numbers still considered trustworthy (and useful)?

 

[TIppy]

I'm having mixed feelings on the need to turn on MBR, but at least there's not a time-limited pedal dance required.

When max battery indicates ready on my car, the battery temperature is about 112F. After 8 zero to sixty runs over a ten minute period, the temperature rose to 118F. On the other hand, the other day I was running my battery down to zero miles to check capacity, and drove at about 60 mph for 25 miles. At the end, the battery temperature was 110F without max battery enabled. It was 91F here at the time. So, the max battery setting doesn't really increase temperature that much. It's mostly to bring a cold battery up to temp, and is most effective at high states of charge. Leaving max battery enabled shouldn't put much additional stress on the battery.

 

[n2mb_racing]

When max battery indicates ready on my car, the battery temperature is about 112F. After 8 zero to sixty runs over a ten minute period, the temperature rose to 118F. On the other hand, the other day I was running my battery down to zero miles to check capacity, and drove at about 60 mph for 25 miles. At the end, the battery temperature was 110F without max battery enabled. It was 91F here at the time. So, the max battery setting doesn't really increase temperature that much. It's mostly to bring a cold battery up to temp, and is most effective at high states of charge. Leaving max battery enabled shouldn't put much additional stress on the battery.

It does seem to run some fans on high, because the car makes a lot of extra noise with MB turned on. Probably a good idea if they are being used to cool down the motor and electronics.

I imagine if it was cooler out it would also increase power consumption, since it kicks on a 6 kW heater.

 

[TIppy]

It does seem to run some fans on high, because the car makes a lot of extra noise with MB turned on. Probably a good idea if they are being used to cool down the motor and electronics.

I imagine if it was cooler out it would also increase power consumption, since it kicks on a 6 kW heater.

It does use a little more power. The standby current when the car is at rest increases from 1.4 amps to 2.8 amps when the fans are running at jet engine like speeds. The 6kw heater would only be on until the temp reached its set point. After that normal motor power dissipation is usually enough to maintain temperature.
Apparently, the model 3 has done away with the heater and uses the motor alone to heat the pack.

 

[brianman]

When max battery indicates ready on my car, the battery temperature is about 112F. After 8 zero to sixty runs over a ten minute period, the temperature rose to 118F. On the other hand, the other day I was running my battery down to zero miles to check capacity, and drove at about 60 mph for 25 miles. At the end, the battery temperature was 110F without max battery enabled. It was 91F here at the time. So, the max battery setting doesn't really increase temperature that much. It's mostly to bring a cold battery up to temp, and is most effective at high states of charge. Leaving max battery enabled shouldn't put much additional stress on the battery.

Apparently we're seeing different results.

On my P100D, on the gauge for Ludicrous+ I was seeing "Heating" (or "Warming", I forget) on the 17" UI until the 50°C mark on the gauge. Above 50°C, the UI flipped to "Cooling". The picture below was during a "Cooling" phase.

Sidenote: There's a few things I like about this particular picture. I bet the OP and Tippy can find at least 3 of them.

 

[GTIceman]

@GTIceman - Do you have Ludicrous? Are you saying that you took delivery of a factory new car that had a loaner battery in it at delivery? If you have Ludicrous and now have a V1 battery, I'd really like to see your 100% SOC max power.

It's weird how many people are reporting they have a V1 battery with summer of 2016 build dates. They started installing the V2 batteries in the beginning of 2016, from my recollection.

It was a dealer demo but sold new. With a loaner pack. It wasn't disclosed. Pre facelift. Yes I have Ludicrous. I will try to get data this week.

 

[TIppy]

Apparently we're seeing different results.

On my P100D, on the gauge for Ludicrous+ I was seeing "Heating" (or "Warming", I forget) on the 17" UI until the 50°C mark on the gauge. Above 50°C, the UI flipped to "Cooling". The picture below was during a "Cooling" phase.

View attachment 244580


Sidenote: There's a few things I like about this particular picture. I bet the OP and Tippy can find at least 3 of them.

Yeah, I believe ludicrous plus is a little different than a p90dl. I believe they also cool the motors. One of the car mags said that it can take 10 minutes between 1/4 mile runs instead of the 3 for the p90dl.

Apparently, it's just too difficult to give us lowly p90dl owners the cool displays from ludicrous plus. I have to rely on canbus data.

 

[brianman]

Apparently, it's just to difficult to give us lowly p90dl owners the cool displays from ludicrous plus. I have to rely on canbus data.

I'm with you. Honestly, I wish they would just open up this widget UI for all Model S / Model X (even the 40/60).

 

[P100DHG.]

Apparently we're seeing different results.

On my P100D, on the gauge for Ludicrous+ I was seeing "Heating" (or "Warming", I forget) on the 17" UI until the 50°C mark on the gauge. Above 50°C, the UI flipped to "Cooling". The picture below was during a "Cooling" phase.

View attachment 244580


Sidenote: There's a few things I like about this particular picture. I bet the OP and Tippy can find at least 3 of them.

Does the screen on the left only appear when Max Battery is Ready? Or is there a trick to displaying that read out?

 

[brianman]

Does the screen on the left only appear when Max Battery is Ready? Or is there a trick to displaying that read out?

Only for Ludicrous+ (on P100D, hold down Ludicrous button).

 

[zanary]

Apparently we're seeing different results.

On my P100D, on the gauge for Ludicrous+ I was seeing "Heating" (or "Warming", I forget) on the 17" UI until the 50°C mark on the gauge. Above 50°C, the UI flipped to "Cooling". The picture below was during a "Cooling" phase.

View attachment 244580


Sidenote: There's a few things I like about this particular picture. I bet the OP and Tippy can find at least 3 of them.

Question: Your image only shows 550kw, but Brooke from Dragtime in the video below was able to achieve 576kw at 100% SOC, and 559kw at 75% and on the older firmware.

I'm curious if you can get above 576 at 100% with the latest firmware.