Navigation Unreliable

[father_of_6]

I've done a handful of in state and multi-state long distance drives in my Model 3 in my 24 months of ownership. I've come to very much trust the "guessometer", although I still play it slightly conservative on long hauls.

Today, I experienced something very different. The nav directed us to our destination to arrive with only 9% battery, and scheduled the charging stop for our way back home to arrive at the Supercharger at 0%. With the temperature being 10°F, there's zero chance we would have made it back to the charger once the battery got cold.

Additionally, the UI at the top of the directions should a remaining distance that did not match the remaining distance at the bottom of the UI... and once I started paying attention I noticed that it always seems to mismatch... multiple waypoints or just one.

I believe that s is another example of software regressions on Tesla's part, because I do believe these things all worked well in the past.

Has anyone else noticed this mismatch or experienced dangerous (battery depleting) directions? See attached.

 

[father_of_6]

I forgot to mention a very interesting bit about this... the Supercharger was *on the way* to our destination. The nav directed us to pass it and get to our destination with 9% charge in 10°F weather.

I cancelled the directions and did them again just to be sure it wasn't some one-time anomaly, but got the same directions the second time. Ultimately we just navigated directly to the Supercharger and then got new directions after charging.

My wife isn't great with navigation and other spacial tasks... and she would have likely just followed the directions without looking closer at them if she were driving solo. This is concerning to me because she does sometimes drive long distance on her own. Stranded in single digit temperatures is dangerous.

 

[GHammer]

The Tesla multi-stop trip planning has always left something to be desired, nothing new in my experience. I've seen it do all sorts of crazy things. One of the fairly common things is that it has you do a very long charge session to nearly 100% to get to a next supercharger with an insufficient buffer when there is one or more intermediate superchargers that would be safer and more expedient to stop at. I've also had it not recognize i'm currently charging at a supercharger and it directs me to another, less convenient, location a few miles or even a block away. In nearly 300k miles of road tripping I never use the trip planner feature, I always do my own charger to charger navigation.

 

[father_of_6]

Note: this thread title was "Navigation Unreliable", but was changed by a moderator.

I believe the original title was more useful and accurate. The navigation cannot be relied on. Relying on it today would have left me stranded.

 

[MP3Mike]

Maybe you can point out the inconsistencies, because I can't see them.

 

[father_of_6]

Maybe you can point out the inconsistencies, because I can't see them.

In the second screenshot, the top part of the UI says there are 28 miles remaining to destination, but the bottom part says 30 miles. This was a single destination navigation and the destination was the charging station itself... so there's nothing out of the ordinary with the directions except for this discrepancy. I noticed this same 2 mile discrepancy today on several navigations.

 

[MP3Mike]

In the second screenshot, the top part of the UI says there are 28 miles remaining to destination, but the bottom part says 30 miles.

No, it says 28 miles to your next action, an exit, not to the destination. Or is the destination exactly at the exit?

It looks like the Supercharger is a couple miles of off 90...

 

[Feathermerchan]

I think the 28 miles is to the next turn not to the destination. As far as arriving with an extremely low % in the battery, you were driving 69 in a 65. Slowing down helps a lot.
On the not navigating to a SC right before your destination, yes Tesla navigates to your destination. It does not know if you can charge there. Best thing is to be aware and add a SC to your trip as necessary/desired. If your ICE car navigated any different I'd be surprised.
What I have learned to do: When at a SC look at the destination estimated battery % and leave when it is at least 10% if it's cold maybe 15 or 20. Then while driving watch that percent. It will wander around quite a bit for the first 30 miles or so. Then it will become more consistent. If it drops below your comfort zone, slow down 3-5mph. If it keeps dropping, slow down more and/or turn off the climate control. On a 24 deg day in our Y we left the SC with ~20% and saw an unusual drop in %. Using the technique above we ended up at the charger with 7%. That was a little below my comfort level but 7% is about 14 miles of cushion if you count 0% as dead which it's not.
If the % charge at the destination keeps rising as you drive, you can speed up as conditions permit and just target an arrival charge % that you are comfortable with. I choose about 10% myself.

 

[father_of_6]

Derp.. that was likely the culprit. Thank you for correcting me. I was probably already looking through the "everything is broken" lens and so just assumed that it was incorrect. Clearly the 28 miles is the next turn.

I recently also started experiencing an intermittent offset on our GPS location, so sometime the car shows as off the road, and the direction (including the blue line) go nutty and suggest turning around after each side street... so perhaps that played a role in how I interpreted the UI (with mistrust).

 

[father_of_6]

I don't want to be seen as disgruntled, the Model 3 is still the best car I've ever owned... but it seems like the benefits to owning a Tesla have been whittled away over time, many by OTA updates.

The v11 update was my first downhill experience... removing climate controls in the middle of Winter and then not putting them back for 6 months made it very clear that Tesla is operating like a careless inexperienced teenager.

"At least the car is fun to drive", I thought... but after my 3rd set of tires in 37k miles I've started driving more conservatively.

"At least it's cheaper than gas"... but it's really not that much cheaper than gas. If you add the upfront purchase price, definitely doesn't compare to an entry or even mid level ICE in cost of ownership.

"At least it's quiet", but the heat pump and/or compressor has started a *very* loud buzzing lately.

"We'll road trips are so easy with the Supercharger network + built in navigation"... but the nav seems less trustworthy than it used to be.

At least the rims are soft and dent easily, and the paint is thin and easily damaged, and the body has lots of steel when most other cars are aluminum which will lead to much rust.

 

[Transformer]

removing climate controls in the middle of Winter and then not putting them back for 6 months made it very clear that Tesla is operating like a careless inexperienced teenager.

^^^^^^ Defogger!

I appreciate the cautionary tale.

I started using A Better Route Planner before Tesla nav would add charging stops, and still use it, setting ABRP to arrive at every charger with at least 20% then setting Tesla to navigate to one Supercharger at a time.

 

[father_of_6]

^^^^^^ Defogger!

I appreciate the cautionary tale.

I started using A Better Route Planner before Tesla nav would add charging stops, and still use it, setting ABRP to arrive at every charger with at least 20% then setting Tesla to navigate to one Supercharger at a time.

But that kills the ease of navigation. Getting in and just saying "navigate to Disney World" is so convenient.

 

[launchd]

Yeah... Mapbox navigation isn't the most reliable, at least not yet. Unfortunately, Tesla seems very reliant on them for other features/functionality that they do well. Although this is just speculation, I think Tesla Vision may be leveraging Mapbox's Vision SDK.

 

[jjrandorin]

I don't want to be seen as disgruntled, the Model 3 is still the best car I've ever owned... but it seems like the benefits to owning a Tesla have been whittled away over time, many by OTA updates.

The v11 update was my first downhill experience... removing climate controls in the middle of Winter and then not putting them back for 6 months made it very clear that Tesla is operating like a careless inexperienced teenager.

"At least the car is fun to drive", I thought... but after my 3rd set of tires in 37k miles I've started driving more conservatively.

"At least it's cheaper than gas"... but it's really not that much cheaper than gas. If you add the upfront purchase price, definitely doesn't compare to an entry or even mid level ICE in cost of ownership.

"At least it's quiet", but the heat pump and/or compressor has started a *very* loud buzzing lately.

"We'll road trips are so easy with the Supercharger network + built in navigation"... but the nav seems less trustworthy than it used to be.

At least the rims are soft and dent easily, and the paint is thin and easily damaged, and the body has lots of steel when most other cars are aluminum which will lead to much rust.

Maybe you dont realize it, but you are disgruntled enough about software updates that you should likely explore getting a different car. At least, it appears so, since most of the threads you respond to, the responses you make include unhappiness with updates even if the thread topic isnt about that.

That sounds dryer than I intend, as I am not saying "well get a different car then!" or something. what I am saying though, is you are very very (very) unhappy about the current software update situation, and its on your mind a lot, based on your interactions here.

 

[father_of_6]

you are very very (very) unhappy about the current software update situation, and its on your mind a lot, based on your interactions here.

Oh yeah, I definitely realize it. I work in software, and for almost a decade I've supported a few hundred clients as a *one man show*, launching feature after feature as well as providing general customer support (and sales and coworker support).

I almost *never* push bugs to begin with, but regressions... never. I just can't understand breaking thinks that we're completely functional, and I have a low tolerance for Tesla (who has many resources and a whole team of devs) continuously pushing regressions while ignoring important lacking features (e.g. better manual wipers).

Still keeping the car though. There just aren't any better options for me. By the time I've driven the Model 3 into the ground (hopefully a while), I expect there'll be better options on the market, or perhaps Tesla will have gotten their act together.

 

[Rocky_H]

I think the 28 miles is to the next turn not to the destination. As far as arriving with an extremely low % in the battery, you were driving 69 in a 65. Slowing down helps a lot.
On the not navigating to a SC right before your destination, yes Tesla navigates to your destination. It does not know if you can charge there. Best thing is to be aware and add a SC to your trip as necessary/desired. If your ICE car navigated any different I'd be surprised.

I disagree with basically ever bit of this. Since the car says it can give charging recommendations, it shouldn't be giving such brain dead, stupid, B.S. charging recommendations as this, causing people to need to do annoying cumbersome compensation behaviors just because the car insisted on trying to skip a Supercharger it shouldn't have.

One of the fairly common things is that it has you do a very long charge session to nearly 100% to get to a next supercharger with an insufficient buffer when there is one or more intermediate superchargers that would be safer and more expedient to stop at.

Yes--my experience that just made me give up permanently on letting the Nav pick my charging stops was on my 5,000+ mile trip in Winter in 2018. The car told me to charge all the way up to 100% in Grand Junction, CO to make the entire drive to the Silverthorne, OC Supercharger, 182 miles away, with projected arrival at 4% !! This was below freezing temperatures and ALL uphill. I knew that looked bad, so I scrolled along the route to see if there was anything else in the middle as a backup plan, but it didn't show any other Superchargers along the way. So I gritted my teeth and white knuckled it and did it. I had to drive about 10-15 mph below the speed limit and a coat on my legs and no heat, but made it! It was afterward, as I was sitting at Silverthorne, that I looked back at it and found that THERE WAS a Supercharger it made me pass by in Glenwood Springs, but it had hidden it from the map because the route it plotted wanted me to skip it! When the route isn't plotted, then it will show all of them.

That's terrible implementation and should have been more than enough cause to make it adjust the route and fall back to the midway charging stop.

Maybe you dont realize it, but you are disgruntled enough about software updates that you should likely explore getting a different car. At least, it appears so, since most of the threads you respond to, the responses you make include unhappiness with updates even if the thread topic isnt about that.

Tesla's software fumbles are bad, but I tend to just give up on them and throw them in the bin and refuse to use them anymore, like their unusable wiper settings and Navigation charging selections. So then my car experience is OK, and I don't need to keep talking about those deficiencies anymore.

and the body has lots of steel when most other cars are aluminum which will lead to much rust.

I think aluminum body cars are still pretty rare in the car industry--definitely not most.

 

[Keninblaine]

For long trips I have always used ABRP, as it minimizes overall travel time in suggesting more frequent stops but shorter stops so that time isn't wasted trying to charge (slowly) above 70 or 80% SOC. I particularly like that with ABRP you can stipulate your desired minimum state of charge when arriving at a SC location, as well as when arriving at destination. And you can tell it your SOC when leaving on your trip. I take a photo of the ABRP info and then tell the Nav where I plan to recharge on each leg so that it will pre-condition appropriately.

 

[804son]

I always like to check my route ahead of time with ABRP, and adjust the Tesla Nav for my personal liking, usually adding a supercharge stop or two. I never trust any Nav system implicitly. More than a couple people have trusted google maps and gotten stuck on muddy dirt roads, because Google Maps though they should avoid slow/stopped traffic and go that way. All Nav systems are just aids, don't forget to take your brain along on a trip.

 

[Transformer]

All Nav systems are just aids, don't forget to take your brain along on a trip.

In addition to the brain, you need to be familiar with those routes or pull over (or have a copilot) to check them on a map.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Show me any app or car that will have you fill up just before you reach a destination.