Need a less-than-urban corporate supercharger option

[Sophias_dad]

A quick google search indicates the average US commute is about 16 miles. Even on an “inefficient” EV like a Model X, a L1 charger will yield ~25 miles of range over 9 hours. No need to “imagine” here, the data is clear.

Yes, the data is clear.... 16 miles is the average commute... but you gotta get to and from work, unless you are driving an extremely short-range EV and charge every night just to get back to work!

So, instead of 16, you need 32 miles of range in your nine hours, assuming zero parasitic losses (Sentry and such), and your inefficient model X won't be able to sustain a charge given 9 hour workdays.

Add to that maybe exceeding the speed limit a little, using the heat and so on, and even an 'efficient' RWD model 3 would struggle.

 

[ucmndd]

Yes, the data is clear.... 16 miles is the average commute... but you gotta get to and from work, unless you are driving an extremely short-range EV and charge every night just to get back to work!

So, instead of 16, you need 32 miles of range in your nine hours, assuming zero parasitic losses (Sentry and such), and your inefficient model X won't be able to sustain a charge given 9 hour workdays.

Add to that maybe exceeding the speed limit a little, using the heat and so on, and even an 'efficient' RWD model 3 would struggle.

16 miles average IS round trip, not one way.

And still fully irrelevant for almost everyone since workplace charging is opportunistic vs. mandatory for the overwhelming majority of EV owners. It’s a nice to have, not a necessity.

 

[acarney]

While I would love to see 20 or 30 HPWC to max out the on board charger, I would be happy for 30 or 40 level 1 outlets at 20 amp each. That should be good for 10 - 15 kWh in a work day. That’s at least 30 to 45 miles, if not more. That’s pretty good for free charging at work. Obviously the cars would have to stay plugged in the whole time but that should be fairly cheap to install.

 

[Sophias_dad]

16 miles average IS round trip, not one way.

I'd like to see your source... I suspect it's this..., or perhaps the ABC news story it references...

How Far Do Americans Drive to Work on Average?

And it says... "According to ABC News, the average American drives 16 miles to work each way, "

But you are right, it doesn't really matter.

 

[SSedan]

On the "full plus one" concern with L1-L2, what about a calendar where some folks get to use L2 Monday and Wednesday, others Tuesday and Thursday, Fridays are first come first serve decided with overflow decided by MMA match.

Let us be grown ups be appreciative of what you have, SHARE. Some folks get mornings some afternoon, or days of the week.

Some of these discussions remind me too much of managing my elementary school age daughters.

 

[SilverSp33d3r]

Look up open evse....caltech in Pasadena has it installed. PlugShare screenshot below.

 

[scottf200]

Hopefully you've tossed the idea of DC fast charging for everyone at work based on the above tally/limits that will happen. Everyone at your work would be pretty upset when they found out this could/would happen.

I'd like to see your source... I suspect it's this..., or perhaps the ABC news story it references...
How Far Do Americans Drive to Work on Average?
And it says... "According to ABC News, the average American drives 16 miles to work each way, "
But you are right, it doesn't really matter.

"78% of customers commute 40 miles or less daily"

The 16-20 miles each way was talked a lot about in 2011-2012 as that is what the Volt would allow you to do on electricity/battery (that is what I did for a few years).

How Did GM determine that 78% of Commuters Drive Less Than 40 miles per day? - GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Electric Car Site

 

[ucmndd]

I'd like to see your source... I suspect it's this..., or perhaps the ABC news story it references...

How Far Do Americans Drive to Work on Average?

And it says... "According to ABC News, the average American drives 16 miles to work each way, "

But you are right, it doesn't really matter.

My mistake, thanks for the correction.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I’d like to see 15 or 20 amp 120v outlets installed at each parking spot, especially for places where people tend to park for hours or days at a time (ie, work, airports, bus stations, etc). No need to play musical cars and 8 hours of charging could get the vast majority of people where they need to go after work.

Musical cars means that employees are cooperating to maximize the value of a shared resource. It should be _encouraged_.

 

[Runt8]

Musical cars means that employees are cooperating to maximize the value of a shared resource. It should be _encouraged_.

But for the price of L2 charging you can install enough 120v receptacles that there’s no longer any contention for the resource.

 

[ucmndd]

Musical cars means that employees are cooperating to maximize the value of a shared resource. It should be _encouraged_.

Lol, given equal cost I’ll keep my team inside focused on work instead of “collaborating” for the free energy I’m giving them.

 

[trekkie]

I work 8 hours a day, and my employer offers free L2 charging. By the end of my working day, it'd be charged. Added benefit is most of the EV charging is powered by panels, but I work somewhere that's on hundreds of acres so they can do that, not everyone can.

unless you're folks are at work only a few hours or you're trying to shuffle two chargers and 50 cars, not seeing the value for DCFC at a place of business that isn't using it as a place for external one hour charges. Not for the $30k a charger or more price it costs. I can hope as more appear across the US that price goes down, not sure what the driving factor other than rarity is .

 

[acarney]

I work 8 hours a day, and my employer offers free L2 charging. By the end of my working day, it'd be charged. Added benefit is most of the EV charging is powered by panels, but I work somewhere that's on hundreds of acres so they can do that, not everyone can.

unless you're folks are at work only a few hours or you're trying to shuffle two chargers and 50 cars, not seeing the value for DCFC at a place of business that isn't using it as a place for external one hour charges. Not for the $30k a charger or more price it costs. I can hope as more appear across the US that price goes down, not sure what the driving factor other than rarity is .

Possibly if the work place has a fleet use for it (but even then the fleet would have to be fairly large to require DC vs overnight L1 or L2 charging).

How many kWh do you need in that 8 hours? I'm curious if a 20amp L1 would actually still cover your need. L2 is great and I wish it was everywhere, don't get me wrong, but I think a lot of people ignore the huge benefit that even a 20amp standard outlet could be! I would gladly take 10kWh to 15kWh in a work day vs nothing! 12kWh (80% efficiency) in 8 hours on a 20 amp L1 would result in at least 45 miles on my Model 3, even in the winter which would be good for a 20 mile one direction commute with no home charging OR a 40 mile one direction commute with home charger.

 

[miimura]

Its a $450 adapter, and then every Tesla wanting to charge has to get one, and at the same time the office has to invest in a presumably terribly expensive Chademo charger, perhaps more than a slow supercharger that wouldn't require any chademo adapters at all.

If the intention is to provide Tesla charging from a DCFC, the adapter should chained to the station, not purchased by the drivers.

Powerflex has installed load managed L2 and DCFC chargers at the schools in the Los Altos school district. The DCFC is a 25kW CCS + CHAdeMO unit similar to this one. There are so many L2 chargers that they don't even care about ICE cars parking in those spaces.

 

[acarney]

If the intention is to provide Tesla charging from a DCFC, the adapter should chained to the station, not purchased by the drivers.

Powerflex has installed load managed L2 and DCFC chargers at the schools in the Los Altos school district. The DCFC is a 25kW CCS + CHAdeMO unit similar to this one. There are so many L2 chargers that they don't even care about ICE cars parking in those spaces.

25kW probably wouldn't be worth the install cost. The slowest Model 3 can do is 6.6kW (at 208v, 7.6kW at 240v) and and LR Model 3 and I believe S/X can do at least 10kW or more. The DCFC at 25kW would only really be useful for the SR/SR+ (~3.5x faster then a L2) and would be 2.5 times faster for the other cars. Again, a bunch of wall connectors would be plenty fast unless someone is driving like 200 miles round trip and has to share the connector, or is looking to plug in once or twice a week and do ZERO home charging.

I have to believe 80% 20amp L1 and 20% wall connectors would be ideal, if coworkers played nice. The couple times someone has to drive a bunch for work to offsite meetings or something maybe the wall connector would be needed. Or if you do 100 miles round trip, then plug into the wall connector when you get there and move the car at lunch. Otherwise if you're doing 50 miles a day or less, the level 1 is going to get you net zero on range loss.

Unless you can't charge at home (or don't want to). Then a 20amp 120v might not cover everything, but does your company deliver gas to you? Swing by on the weekend for three hours to do some work and talk a walk or something and suck up 50% of your SR/SR+ battery and then daily the L1s should keep you going. Then opportunity charge around town, and if you can't, that's when you start talking to grocery stores and such seeing if they'll install a couple L2 chargers to pick up some charge while you do some shopping, or the mall/movie theater, etc.

 

[miimura]

25kW probably wouldn't be worth the install cost.

I didn't come to debate the use case, I came to say that there is a solution to the original request and point out the folly of drivers purchasing the adapter themselves.

 

[acarney]

I didn't come to debate the use case, I came to say that there is a solution to the original request and point out the folly of drivers purchasing the adapter themselves.

Which is totally fine, but I just wanted to comment that the cost vs utility of a DCFC at that speed probably wouldn't be worth it, before others jump on saying "how do I convince my workplace to install one!?"

At least I would MUCH rather have a row of 10 to 12 wall connectors or 20+ dedicated 20amp L1s vs one "quick" charger at 25kW

 

[NickFie]

We have six wall chargers at my office complex, three on each of two 100 amp circuits.

We have far more than six Teslas. We just move our cars after a few hours to give others a chance to charge. As Petrlol observed, these can be a very workable solution.

One of my employer’s sites has similar J1772 arrangement. People unplug and move their car once they have adequate charge.

When I visited, all chargers were occupied in the morning. Walked to the garage on my way to lunch, drove to chargers and took one of the available ones. 30 Amps/205 Volts IIRC.

 

[miimura]

At least I would MUCH rather have a row of 10 to 12 wall connectors or 20+ dedicated 20amp L1s vs one "quick" charger at 25kW

I would argue that 50 load managed L2 stations would be better than what you suggest without requiring any additional electrical capacity.

The OP also stated that they wanted to use the 277Y480V power that was available, hence the DCFC. Doing anything else requires installing step-down transformers. Although, Tesla has shown an elegant solution to this at their V3 stations that are being installed at Target stores. They integrate a 2:1 isolation transformer with a split phase panel that provides 120/240V power for L2 stations and lighting from two hot legs on the 480V service.

 

[acarney]

I would argue that 50 load managed L2 stations would be better than what you suggest without requiring any additional electrical capacity.

The OP also stated that they wanted to use the 277Y480V power that was available, hence the DCFC. Doing anything else requires installing step-down transformers. Although, Tesla has shown an elegant solution to this at their V3 stations that are being installed at Target stores. They integrate a 2:1 isolation transformer with a split phase panel that provides 120/240V power for L2 stations and lighting from two hot legs on the 480V service.

Load managed L2s would be fine, but I don’t know if the cost to load manage them is considerably more or not. Also I don’t know if Tesla would play ball on supplying them or if they would have to be purchased (50 x $500/wall connector is $25k in hardware).