Need a less-than-urban corporate supercharger option

[Sophias_dad]

My office has been kind enough to supply an HPWC, sadly running at 208V because 277 is no longer listed as an option in the manual, but we are running into capacity issues... They aren't insurmountable issues yet, but its only a matter of time as more Teslas are bought....

I'd like to see a very slow supercharger option, like maybe dual ~25kw(or even modular charge level options!) DC outputs, running on the available 480V three phase supply that is commonplace in a commercial environments. This would make commuting-level recharge times an hour or so, and the charger(or pair) would support a bunch more Teslas.

I'd think we'd need the charging cabinet to be outdoor-rated, since sending about a zillion volts and a decent number of amps DC across a parking lot would be a bad idea.....

Ideally, we'd also be able to register our Tesla's for free charging at that one(or two) chargers.

None of these seem to be really hard to solve, but I'm not sure its a large enough market for Tesla to bother with. I imagine that the underpinnings of this would be a depopulated urban supercharger, since I've seen pictures of the innards of their cabinet and they already seem modular inside....

What say you?

 

[Petrlol]

Are 4 or 8 or 12 Tesla chargers load sharing in sets of 4 an issue? I'd think not everyone would be charging all day long and the charging rate would pick up over time.

 

[ucmndd]

Parallelizing lots of cheap L2 charging with HPWCs would seem to be far more cost effective and convenient than what you’re describing.

 

[Rockster]

We have six wall chargers at my office complex, three on each of two 100 amp circuits.

We have far more than six Teslas. We just move our cars after a few hours to give others a chance to charge. As Petrlol observed, these can be a very workable solution.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Parallelizing lots of cheap L2 charging with HPWCs would seem to be far more cost effective and convenient than what you’re describing.

I imagine that the cumulative charge rate of a bank of four HPWCs would be dismal... lets say best case they supply a pair of conductiors that feeds 80A at 208V... that's like 16kw, and no one vehicle can take more than about 10kw of that(48 amps at 208V). In fact, we have 80A going to that singular 208V HPWC now, and unless someone visits with a dual-charger model S, we are leaving charge on the table... I'll propose a second HPWC on the same line....

Adding a single(third phase) line out to the charging arena(and moving to the 480 volt three phase supply) should get us 56kw, and the ability to serve dozens of cars during a day. Sadly, it would also become so much power use that it wouldn't get lost in the 'noise' as it is right now.

 

[gaswalla]

You can get DC chargers (non Tesla) that fit your needs and get CHADEMO adapters for the Teslas. This also then accommodates all EVs

 

[Sophias_dad]

You can get DC chargers (non Tesla) that fit your needs and get CHADEMO adapters for the Teslas. This also then accommodates all EVs

A CHADEMO adapter is $450... That's a little too accommodating for my taste

 

[MP3Mike]

A CHADEMO adapter is $450... That's a little too accommodating for my taste

Then you aren't going to want to see the price of DC fast charger.

Just add more level 2 charging. Didn't Tesla still have the workplace program where they will subsidize the WC cost?

 

[qdeathstar]

ABB makes a 50kw fast charger.


https://www.bidnet.com/bneattachments?/331498236.xlsx


hard to find prices but this suggests 30 grand, if you click through the tabs some different options also show around 30 grand for dc fast charging...


You could get a lot of wall chargers for that price...

takes 400v three phase power.... 100 amps.

 

[gaswalla]

If a $400 adapter is felt to be expensive then the entire premise of this thread is irrelevant

 

[SilverSp33d3r]

My office has been kind enough to supply an HPWC, sadly running at 208V because 277 is no longer listed as an option in the manual, but we are running into capacity issues... They aren't insurmountable issues yet, but its only a matter of time as more Teslas are bought....

I'd like to see a very slow supercharger option, like maybe dual ~25kw(or even modular charge level options!) DC outputs, running on the available 480V three phase supply that is commonplace in a commercial environments. This would make commuting-level recharge times an hour or so, and the charger(or pair) would support a bunch more Teslas.

I'd think we'd need the charging cabinet to be outdoor-rated, since sending about a zillion volts and a decent number of amps DC across a parking lot would be a bad idea.....

Ideally, we'd also be able to register our Tesla's for free charging at that one(or two) chargers.

None of these seem to be really hard to solve, but I'm not sure its a large enough market for Tesla to bother with. I imagine that the underpinnings of this would be a depopulated urban supercharger, since I've seen pictures of the innards of their cabinet and they already seem modular inside....

What say you?

What about if the office opened it up to public as well, maybe tesla would work to install a bank of Superchargers?

 

[ucmndd]

I imagine that the cumulative charge rate of a bank of four HPWCs would be dismal... lets say best case they supply a pair of conductiors that feeds 80A at 208V... that's like 16kw, and no one vehicle can take more than about 10kw of that(48 amps at 208V). In fact, we have 80A going to that singular 208V HPWC now, and unless someone visits with a dual-charger model S, we are leaving charge on the table... I'll propose a second HPWC on the same line....

Adding a single(third phase) line out to the charging arena(and moving to the 480 volt three phase supply) should get us 56kw, and the ability to serve dozens of cars during a day. Sadly, it would also become so much power use that it wouldn't get lost in the 'noise' as it is right now.

You're assuming that maximizing cumulative charge rate in corporate settings is a desirable outcome. I dispute that premise - On the contrary I think the best possible solution is lots and lots of nice and slow/cheap L1 or L2 EV charging stations that I can park my car at in the morning and then retrieve in the afternoon without any extra trips, thinking, planning around my calendar, etc.

My local airport has a bank of simple, cheap 120v L1 J1772 chargers for long-term parking - I think this is actually the ideal scenario for most office parks. You could probably install stations like this vs. the "slow DC" solution you're proposing at close to a 15:1 ratio. More than enough juice during an 8 hour day to cover 95% of commutes. No BS around hoofing it back to your car after 2 hours so someone else can get some juice, blocking the charger for too long, coordinating with coworkers, etc etc etc. Just park and go. EV-agnostic, works for anyone. Super cheap, super simple.

Distant second is probably a bank of wall connectors, but even that is overkill for what most people need in an office setting, which you can basically categorize as "opportunistic charging" for almost everyone.

 

[Sophias_dad]

You're assuming that maximizing cumulative charge rate in corporate settings is a desirable outcome. I dispute that premise - On the contrary I think the best possible solution is lots and lots of nice and slow/cheap L1 or L2 EV charging stations that I can park my car at in the morning and then retrieve in the afternoon without any extra trips, thinking, planning around my calendar, etc.

My local airport has a bank of simple, cheap 120v L1 J1772 chargers for long-term parking - I think this is actually the ideal scenario for most office parks. You could probably install stations like this vs. the "slow DC" solution you're proposing at close to a 15:1 ratio. More than enough juice during an 8 hour day to cover 95% of commutes. No BS around hoofing it back to your car after 2 hours so someone else can get some juice, blocking the charger for too long, coordinating with coworkers, etc etc etc. Just park and go. EV-agnostic, works for anyone. Super cheap, super simple.

Distant second is probably a bank of wall connectors, but even that is overkill for what most people need in an office setting, which you can basically categorize as "opportunistic charging" for almost everyone.

I imagine an L1 J1772 charger won't even cover commuting needs for most users. What happens when there are 'lots' of these chargers and 'lots+1' users? Last guy in the pool loses? That sucks for him or her.

I could see a bunch of L2 J1772s, able to supply 10+mi/hr... but you still have the problem of lots+1 users.

We actually do have an L2 J1772 charger alongside the HPWC, so non-tesla's aren't totally SOL...

 

[scottf200]

I imagine an L1 J1772 charger won't even cover commuting needs for most users. What happens when there are 'lots' of these chargers and 'lots+1' users? Last guy in the pool loses? That sucks for him or her.
I could see a bunch of L2 J1772s, able to supply 10+mi/hr... but you still have the problem of lots+1 users.
We actually do have an L2 J1772 charger alongside the HPWC, so non-tesla's aren't totally SOL...

Not sure if something changed by regular/daily DC fast charging appears to get tallied and then you get throttled at Superchargers as I recall. Tesla considered it hard on the battery as a daily option ... again as I recall.
I think this user had a chademo in his garage.
If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

 

[Sophias_dad]

Not sure if something changed by regular/daily DC fast charging appears to get tallied and then you get throttled at Superchargers as I recall. Tesla considered it hard on the battery as a daily option ... again as I recall.
I think this user had a chademo in his garage.
If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

Yes, that was part of my motivation in asking for slower supercharging.... faster than L2, but not silly-fast.

 

[SilverSp33d3r]

Yes, that was part of my motivation in asking for slower supercharging.... faster than L2, but not silly-fast.

Tesla doesn’t differentiate...DC charging is “fast charging” regardless of speed.

 

[Sophias_dad]

If a $400 adapter is felt to be expensive then the entire premise of this thread is irrelevant

Its a $450 adapter, and then every Tesla wanting to charge has to get one, and at the same time the office has to invest in a presumably terribly expensive Chademo charger, perhaps more than a slow supercharger that wouldn't require any chademo adapters at all.

 

[ucmndd]

I imagine an L1 J1772 charger won't even cover commuting needs for most users.

A quick google search indicates the average US commute is about 16 miles. Even on an “inefficient” EV like a Model X, a L1 charger will yield ~25 miles of range over 9 hours. No need to “imagine” here, the data is clear.

What happens when there are 'lots' of these chargers and 'lots+1' users? Last guy in the pool loses? That sucks for him or her.

Basically yeah. Get to work earlier. This is the same thing that happens when someone cock blocks your slow DC charger, but like I said there’s maybe one of those for the same installed cost as 15 L1 J1772s. If you own an office building, which solution are you going to prefer? I know what I choose.

I could see a bunch of L2 J1772s, able to supply 10+mi/hr... but you still have the problem of lots+1 users.

Your more expensive/complex solution does nothing to solve this, unless I’m fundamentally misunderstanding your premise.

 

[MP3Mike]

Its a $450 adapter, and then every Tesla wanting to charge has to get one, and at the same time the office has to invest in a presumably terribly expensive Chademo charger, perhaps more than a slow supercharger that wouldn't require any chademo adapters at all.

Most places that are trying to offer charging service to employees buy an adapter and tether it to the CHAdeMO charger so that every Tesla owner doesn't have to buy one themselves.

Installing multiple L2 EVSEs are a much better solution for workplace charging than trying to put in DC fast charging.

 

[Runt8]

I’d like to see 15 or 20 amp 120v outlets installed at each parking spot, especially for places where people tend to park for hours or days at a time (ie, work, airports, bus stations, etc). No need to play musical cars and 8 hours of charging could get the vast majority of people where they need to go after work.