New autonomy level coming in firmware 9.0?

[_jmk]

Someone just asked from Elon in twitter if the firmware 9.0 will ship with new autonomy level and the answer was 'yes'. This is the way new functionality was described during the investor call:

Stuart Bowers - Tesla, Inc.
" So right now, a lot of the focus is on Autopilot v9, which is our sort of on-ramp to off-ramp solution that's going to automatically attempt to change lanes, understand what lane the car is in, understand the route the user wants to travel and take that route for the user and ultimately hand back control to that user which is kind of stay in (11:50) control."

Awesome if they can really pull this off, finally some real progress.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

"we definitely have great stuff planned for the future! 3 months maybe, 6 months definitely! So please continue gifting us your mon......uuuh buying our software."

---meaningless blabla without results.

 

[banned-66611]

Hyundai's autopilot system can read speed signs. So can AP1. Hopefully they will get that working in AP2 finally for v9.

After all it's essential for FSD.

 

[croman]

Hyundai's autopilot system can read speed signs. So can AP1. Hopefully they will get that working in AP2 finally for v9.

After all it's essential for FSD.

Meh, there are far more important things to focus on. That is essential for navigating urban areas. Tesla is focused on highways, it seems, at the moment (EAP features). I think L3 highway would be fantastic if they delivered in September.

 

[mtndrew1]

I would be absolutely delighted with hands-off level 3 in a single lane on the highway below something like 45 MPH. Basically, my commute.

Audi has something similar on the A8 in the EU.

 

[boonedocks]

I would be absolutely delighted with hands-off level 3 in a single lane on the highway below something like 45 MPH. Basically, my commute.

Audi has something similar on the A8 in the EU.

Up to 75MPH or nothing!! lol (my daily commute)

 

[Barklikeadog]

Scary jump in abilities! I think I'd hold my breath merging the first time.

 

[banned-66611]

Meh, there are far more important things to focus on. That is essential for navigating urban areas. Tesla is focused on highways, it seems, at the moment (EAP features). I think L3 highway would be fantastic if they delivered in September.

How are they going to do L3 without the ability to read signs? Rely on the GPS database only? Maybe geo fence it to areas it knows about?

 

[croman]

How are they going to do L3 without the ability to read signs? Rely on the GPS database only? Maybe geo fence it to areas it knows about?

Why does it need to read signs on a highway? Speed limits aren't that wrong on interstates around me (only the reversible 90/94 lanes seem wrong in the GPS database). Its laughable how bad local roads are but highway seems both simpler and more accurate.

ALC is already geofenced along with AP to 90mph (instead of +5). I can't imagine L3 functionality won't follow ALC geofencing.

 

[arcus]

Why does it need to read signs on a highway? Speed limits aren't that wrong on interstates around me (only the reversible 90/94 lanes seem wrong in the GPS database). Its laughable how bad local roads are but highway seems both simpler and more accurate.

Generally agree.

Over here there's a number of roads where service/frontage road runs very close to main lanes and there doesn't seem to be any rule for speed limit sign placement: sometimes you see them on the left, sometimes to the right. Wonder how would the car interpret which sign applies to freeway vs service road. Generally the speed limit on a freeway will be higher, so that might be one crude way to distinguish between them, but we'll see.

Then there's a few places that construction crews seem to have forgotten to remove the temporary speed limit signs after the work was done. So it goes 70 > 55 (old/invalid) > 65 > 70 on a 2-3 mile stretch.

Hopefully it will learn not just from reading signs, but from the overall traffic flow too. We don't need more ghost braking

 

[chillaban]

Generally agree.

Over here there's a number of roads where service/frontage road runs very close to main lanes and there doesn't seem to be any rule for speed limit sign placement: sometimes you see them on the left, sometimes to the right. Wonder how would the car interpret which sign applies to freeway vs service road. Generally the speed limit on a freeway will be higher, so that might be one crude way to distinguish between them, but we'll see.

Then there's a few places that construction crews seem to have forgotten to remove the temporary speed limit signs after the work was done. So it goes 70 > 55 (old/invalid) > 65 > 70 on a 2-3 mile stretch.

Hopefully it will learn not just from reading signs, but from the overall traffic flow too. We don't need more ghost braking

I actually had a lot of trouble locally on AP1 a month ago when I had a loaner…. A lot of my commute route is 45mph but "25mph when children are present"…. But AP1 simply reads that to mean 25mph and then forces an Autosteer limitation at 30mph when the usual flow is 50-55mph.

That's more of a criticism of speed limitations based off sign reading though. I really wish that would be a separate database and not tied to posted speed limit.

 

[croman]

AP1 speed limit reading has no contextual understanding so it was often as wrong as AP2 about which speed to set as the max (on local roads). I don't want sign recognition and reaction if its not reliable. @arcus notes one of many areas where context matters.

I think Karpathy is focused on training the network on traffic lights and, presumably, the simplest and most uniform of signs: stop signs. Speed limit is a pandora's box.

 

[mitchellh3]

I think Karpathy is focused on training the network on traffic lights and, presumably, the simplest and most uniform of signs: stop signs. Speed limit is a pandora's box.

Certainly, but given his recent-ish talk (Software 2.0 or w/e it was titled), I believe there is also a focus on car behavior prediction. For example, he noted working on "blinker detection" but also noted that its hard because people don't always turn it on... Elon also noted in the shareholders meeting that dev build has "blinker detection" for on-ramp to off-ramp.

I think Autosteers biggest weakness today in the highway realm is gracefully handling cars merging. That is: functionality that exists today, ignoring functionality that explicitly doesn't exist like automatic transitions, lane change (w/o driver input), etc.

So, what I would hope to see in V9 and to show progress towards SAE Level 3 on highways would be increased situational awareness on highways: merging cars, lane-splitting motorcycles, lanes splitting/merging, etc.

 

[banned-66611]

Why does it need to read signs on a highway?

Roadworks.

Also some countries have variable speed limits for traffic or weather.

 

[boonedocks]

Why does it need to read signs on a highway? Speed limits aren't that wrong on interstates around me (only the reversible 90/94 lanes seem wrong in the GPS database). Its laughable how bad local roads are but highway seems both simpler and more accurate.

ALC is already geofenced along with AP to 90mph (instead of +5). I can't imagine L3 functionality won't follow ALC geofencing.

Because or major interstate I285 in Atlanta has dynamically changing speed limit signs from 35-65...that’s enough of a difference to get a super speeder ticket in Georgia. Not something you really want l....

 

[Larry Hutchinson]

I keep hearing about AP1 cars reading speed signs. But my facelift AP1 car has not done so for a long time. It clearly uses goofed up gps and no longer changes right at the sign and is often way wrong. I’ll have to inquire over in the model S forum.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Meh, there are far more important things to focus on. That is essential for navigating urban areas. Tesla is focused on highways, it seems, at the moment (EAP features). I think L3 highway would be fantastic if they delivered in September.

Considering the bureaucratic nonsense that Audi`s up-to-30/mph level 3 traffic-jam pilot is going through at the moment we can forget legal highway level 3 in 2018 and probably 2019, too.....

 

[banned-66611]

Considering the bureaucratic nonsense that Audi`s up-to-30/mph level 3 traffic-jam pilot is going through at the moment we can forget legal highway level 3 in 2018 and probably 2019, too.....

To be fair their traffic jam pilot is *sugar*. It's not really level 3 in any of the demos, you still have to take over at a moment's notice. And it's so limited... You need traffic or a wall on both sides, only at low speeds etc.

My guess would be Nissan are the first to launch a level 3 car, and probably only in Japan. GM may get there too, with it limited to certain roads that they have carefully mapped out.

 

[Snuffysasa]

Meh, there are far more important things to focus on. That is essential for navigating urban areas. Tesla is focused on highways, it seems, at the moment (EAP features). I think L3 highway would be fantastic if they delivered in September.

Tesla is not close to delivering level 3 on highways

Up to 75MPH or nothing!! lol (my daily commute)

This is coming shortly from a variety of OEMs

How are they going to do L3 without the ability to read signs? Rely on the GPS database only? Maybe geo fence it to areas it knows about?

Yes this is how self driving cars work

Considering the bureaucratic nonsense that Audi`s up-to-30/mph level 3 traffic-jam pilot is going through at the moment we can forget legal highway level 3 in 2018 and probably 2019, too.....

AV start act was going to pass at the end of last year that would have made that level 3 system legal in all 50 states.... but it has had major delays and it may still pass this year. It's not a matter of will it pass? its only a matter of will the senate have time to hear it.

To be fair their traffic jam pilot is *sugar*. It's not really level 3 in any of the demos, you still have to take over at a moment's notice. And it's so limited... You need traffic or a wall on both sides, only at low speeds etc.

My guess would be Nissan are the first to launch a level 3 car, and probably only in Japan. GM may get there too, with it limited to certain roads that they have carefully mapped out.

I agree Nissan will be one of the first to launch a L3 car in japan. but The Audi may launch in Europe slightly sooner.

"It's not really level 3 in any of the demos, you still have to take over at a moment's notice."

What do you mean its not really L3... yes it is.

You do not need to be prepared to take over at any instant. You must be able to take over by the end of a 10 second time period after it alerts you.