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New battery (post-collision), same old rated range.

GuyFromGPT

Member
Feb 24, 2019
66
55
Gulfport. MS
After Collision, 34k mile SR+ Battery replaced. Should I have better rated range?
I had a single vehicle collision, with a road laying compact spare tire, resulting in battery loss (along with extensive structural damage). The structural damage was repaired by a third party collision center, but the battery was replaced by Tesla Service.
1,000 miles after repair, car still shows "old" rated range of 225 miles.

Question: Shouldn't my car have higher rated range, with new battery (Original rated range 240, now shows 225)?
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
8,876
9,884
Riverside Co. CA
Not sure why one would expect that. There isnt anything that says the battery they put in your car is new, and not "refurbished" for example... they wouldnt under any obligation to put new in there, just something that met what you had.

Not saying thats what they did, just, there isnt any reason to think they had to put a new one in there.
 
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GuyFromGPT

Member
Feb 24, 2019
66
55
Gulfport. MS
On the paperwork I got from the collision center, when I was given my car, there was an item for new OEM battery installed on my car.

Not refurbished. Not used. New.

This is why I asked.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
15,593
34,231
Oregon
On the paperwork I got from the collision center, when I was given my car, there was an item for new OEM battery installed on my car.

Not refurbished. Not used. New.

What really sucks about that is the when you buy a battery it only comes with a 4-year/50k mile warranty. So it will be out of warranty at 84k miles instead of the 8-year/100k your original battery had.
 
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nayr14

Member
Mar 18, 2019
103
86
Chicago, IL
Assuming the BMS (or its associated historical data) was not replaced with the battery, maybe the below would explain it?

How I Recovered Half of my Battery's Lost Capacity

I'd agree with this post. It's possible (thought I'd assume otherwise) that the BMS was not "reset". The SOC is a guestimate based on how the battery reacts to varying states of charge. If you take it on a trip, it might start to gain some of that range back when it realizes it's now holding more capacity.
 

Candleflame

Active Member
Mar 9, 2015
2,782
1,287
QLD, Australia
BMS hasnt been reset so you need to wait until next calibration.

you have to options:
1) take one of the team and keep on driving and update us about the BMS algorithms how it recovers battery capacity
2) Call Tesla to do a CAG/BMS reset

id prefer the former lol.
 
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camalaio

Active Member
May 28, 2019
1,483
2,095
Vernon, BC, Canada
The warranty states something like they'll replace it with equivalent capacity.

Even new batteries vary a bit in capacity, but on the SR+ specifically there's been reports of the cars missing a chunk of miles on delivery. It's possible even a new SR+ pack doesn't have the expected capacity.

RE: Statements about resetting the BMS. If the battery pack was replaced, the BMS has almost certainly been replaced as well. I highly doubt Tesla extracted cells from one to put in another shell.
 
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Candleflame

Active Member
Mar 9, 2015
2,782
1,287
QLD, Australia
The warranty states something like they'll replace it with equivalent capacity.

Even new batteries vary a bit in capacity, but on the SR+ specifically there's been reports of the cars missing a chunk of miles on delivery. It's possible even a new SR+ pack doesn't have the expected capacity.

RE: Statements about resetting the BMS. If the battery pack was replaced, the BMS has almost certainly been replaced as well. I highly doubt Tesla extracted cells from one to put in another shell.

that would seem odd as i.e. a failing battery will degrade quicker and it isn ot what other people have observed with battery replacements.
Also bit of a chance for them to find a replacement battery with exactly the same degradation.

If i get 20% degradation over the next year and then get battery failure warnings (which is likely with such quick degradadation) then i sure hope i get a replacement with <5% degradation ,just like all other packs with low milage.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,751
11,736
San Diego
RE: Statements about resetting the BMS. If the battery pack was replaced, the BMS has almost certainly been replaced as well.

For sure the BMS itself was replaced; it is part of the battery. I do wonder about where the tracking information on the battery is stored, though (the CAC value). If that is stored elsewhere, maybe that info was not reset as part of the replacement?

No idea really. I guess if I were the OP I would at least contact Tesla and see if they can do a CAC reset remotely. It’ll probably sort itself out, but no idea.
 
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alstoralset

Man from another place
Nov 23, 2018
119
288
Pacific Northwest
RE: Statements about resetting the BMS. If the battery pack was replaced, the BMS has almost certainly been replaced as well. I highly doubt Tesla extracted cells from one to put in another shell.

I wonder whether the historical data collected by the BMS is stored and processed by the central CPU for range calculations and the like? If so, I have no idea whether Tesla can/does reset the data on pack replacement.
 

camalaio

Active Member
May 28, 2019
1,483
2,095
Vernon, BC, Canada
Good information in the case of a warranty replacement, which this was not.

Fair, but many insurance policies (and expensive parts sourced from the manufacturer, which this is) replace with refurbished units of equivalent performance. That is, not always new parts.

Even with new parts in a non-warranty scenario, the rest of what I said is applicable.

that would seem odd as i.e. a failing battery will degrade quicker and it isn ot what other people have observed with battery replacements.
Also bit of a chance for them to find a replacement battery with exactly the same degradation.

If i get 20% degradation over the next year and then get battery failure warnings (which is likely with such quick degradadation) then i sure hope i get a replacement with <5% degradation ,just like all other packs with low milage.

It's not the best policy for the owner, no. In practice Tesla has trended towards being generous of course, with the fine print allowing them to not be so.

For sure the BMS itself was replaced; it is part of the battery. I do wonder about where the tracking information on the battery is stored, though (the CAC value). If that is stored elsewhere, maybe that info was not reset as part of the replacement?

No idea really. I guess if I were the OP I would at least contact Tesla and see if they can do a CAC reset remotely. It’ll probably sort itself out, but no idea.

I think (I'm far less sure about this) that the CAC values are in two places: the 4x BMB boards that rest on the four modules within the main pack compartment, and the BMS bits in the penthouse (which collects data from the 4x module boards). I was thinking of the penthouse components when I said it was probably replaced as well.

Since their architecture is fairly modular between these subsystems, I very very highly doubt the CAC values are stored or cached anywhere else that's used to display the range to the driver. But it's possible.

I wonder whether the historical data collected by the BMS is stored and processed by the central CPU for range calculations and the like? If so, I have no idea whether Tesla can/does reset the data on pack replacement.

With very high confidence, I do not believe a component outside the battery pack is ultimately responsible for being a source of truth for the battery capacity. I don't know where the range calculation occurs technically, but it's simply based on communicated stats from the battery and an efficiency constant (based on model, year, wheels). When things like temperature impact the usable energy (and thus range), this is still being communicated by the battery pack itself from what I understand.
 

alstoralset

Man from another place
Nov 23, 2018
119
288
Pacific Northwest
With very high confidence, I do not believe a component outside the battery pack is ultimately responsible for being a source of truth for the battery capacity. I don't know where the range calculation occurs technically, but it's simply based on communicated stats from the battery and an efficiency constant (based on model, year, wheels).

Great points. There are legitimate reasons to store all the samples locally on the BMS FLASH, and other legitimate reasons to store them centrally on the (dreaded) eMMC.

The only reason to suspect the latter is that the OP's new battery shows the same range as the old one. This could also be coincidence, of course.
 

Gasaraki

Active Member
Oct 21, 2019
1,668
1,076
Syracuse, NY
After Collision, 34k mile SR+ Battery replaced. Should I have better rated range?
I had a single vehicle collision, with a road laying compact spare tire, resulting in battery loss (along with extensive structural damage). The structural damage was repaired by a third party collision center, but the battery was replaced by Tesla Service.
1,000 miles after repair, car still shows "old" rated range of 225 miles.

Question: Shouldn't my car have higher rated range, with new battery (Original rated range 240, now shows 225)?

I would charge it to 100% once to let the BMS know what the new top end is.
 

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