New design - With no stalks how do you change directions or signal?

[elguapo]

Yeah, you definitely won't ever be happy owning a Tesla. So, why are you wasting your time posting about things that don't concern you? And demonstrating your inadequate grasp of engineering at the same time? No value to anybody.

You do realize that the long list of things that people said they hated and made no sense and couldn't be any good include:
- the Model 3 center screen
- regenerative braking
- automatic high/low beams
- emergency braking

Somehow, you just don't hear that many complaints any more. Braking and high beam modulation are already superhuman in most situations. My experience is that the vision based rain detection is almost perfect now. And given how good Tesla engineering is in general, I expect whatever choices they make with regard to stalks will work out fine. But of course we have yet to see what the system will actually look like, so complaining about it now is pretty much all about demons living in your own head.

In the old days, people had similar reactions to automatic transmissions, taking away their manual chokes, and similar horrors. Fear of the unknown has a long history.

Tesla was nowhere near the first for auto hi/low beams. Just trying to be fair here.

 

[tomas]

I must have missed that there would be a non-stalk selector. Do you have a source on that? I don't see one in any of the renders, and Elon specifically said the override would be on the touchscreen, so that's what I was going off of.

I don't see how you could turn that feature off without having a physical selector somewhere. I guess if you turned the auto selection feature off, you would have to navigate to the control menu and select your gear that way?

“Electrek added that the Model S would have force-sensitive touch controls on the center console under the wireless charging pad”. There have been tweets from musk that it could be overridden on touch screen that were interpreted as control being on touch screen. I’m going with electrek until we have authoritative info... not ambiguous tweets.

 

[elguapo]

Truth is no one outside of Tesla has any idea how this will work. They may not know yet either. Clearly, there will have to be a way to override what the car wants to do for folks who need/want to back into a space, for example.

I do think Elon’s tweet was fairly clear. We shall have to wait and see. What we do know, is Elon loves to create a stir and free PR and he’s got it.

 

[DoctorVenkman]

“Electrek added that the Model S would have force-sensitive touch controls on the center console under the wireless charging pad”. There have been tweets from musk that it could be overridden on touch screen that were interpreted as control being on touch screen. I’m going with electrek until we have authoritative info... not ambiguous tweets.

This is the image from the Tesla website of the new center console:

I don't see where the gear selectors could be in that photo. The hazard lights have to have a physical button by law, so I don't think the gear selectors could be capacitive on that strip. Unless they're even further below hidden by the sliding compartment?

 

[elguapo]

BTW - if you zoom in on the yoke photo on Tesla’s site, you can see the right arrow is a touch button of some type on the left part of time and the left arrow is beneath it. I don’t recall if someone mentioned that above. So, at least that’s visible.

 

[46&2]

... and Elon specifically said the override would be on the touchscreen, so that's what I was going off of.

Yes, he said touch screen override.

I guess if you turned the auto selection feature off, you would have to navigate to the control menu and select your gear that way?

I don't think so. Going INTO a menu would be utterly stupid.

Let's, for now, assume that as long as the car doesn't move, there's an ultra-big overlay saying "DRIVE" in the top half of the screen, and "REAR" in the lower half. By slapping your hand anywhere there, gear is chosen. Scroll wheel to make the same choice is an option, maybe later.

Source? None. I just won't believe they chose a stupid solution over a better one. And I don't think you should, either, be more pessimistic than necessary.

 

[J1mbo]

TBH, I think the poor placement of the indicators is more of an issue and will become an annoyance for those not using FSD for every journey.

 

[jboy210]

Don't forget, Elon has to sign off on these changes...including the steering wheel. I trust that he will release things far better than what we have posted we are afraid of.

I don't have as much blind faith in Elon. The Cybertruck design is/was a missed opportunity to dominate the huge pickup market and is taking way too long to come to market.

 

[DoctorVenkman]

Yes, he said touch screen override.

I don't think so. Going INTO a menu would be utterly stupid.

Let's, for now, assume that as long as the car doesn't move, there's an ultra-big overlay saying "DRIVE" in the top half of the screen, and "REAR" in the lower half. By slapping your hand anywhere there, gear is chosen. Scroll wheel to make the same choice is an option, maybe later.

Source? None. I just won't believe they chose a stupid solution over a better one. And I don't think you should, either, be more pessimistic than necessary.

I don't think I'm being unnecessarily pessimistic. I am taking all the currently available information and thinking through how it would work.

Let's take your hypothetical solution - how would that work if you were currently in drive and needed to reverse for some reason? It would have to be in a menu unless there is a permanent portion of the screen dedicated to the gear selection. I guess I could live with a permanent gear selection on the screen but that's not ideal in my opinion.

It's not like I'm trying to be negative here, I just don't see how it could work in a way that is better than the current setup. I hope I'm surprised but I don't have blind faith in Tesla (or any company, really). There are tons of companies with really talented engineers that end up making poor design decisions - no company is immune including Apple, Google, Tesla, etc.

 

[jboy210]

TBH, I think the poor placement of the indicators is more of an issue and will become an annoyance for those not using FSD for every journey.

Or people that do not buy FSD for $10K like me.

 

[46&2]

It's not like I'm trying to be negative here, I just don't see how it could work in a way that is better than the current setup.

OK, I fully understand that. And agree.

For me, a forward/backward switch no the yoke would be more reasonably, it seems, or another solution - just not touch screen...
I see the stalk not being the ideal solution if you only turn your steering device +/- 90 degrees. Blinkers: fine on 'wheel'. Gears: fine on 'wheel', but why the hell down there in the center?

But I can't see them being that ignorant to hide it in a sub-menu, literally. But then, "too small" is about the same category as "in a sub-menu". Category "usless PITA ", should you ever need it. I'm also not per se, in advance, over-pessimistic with the car's gear choice which might well be correct for most use cases.

Imporante: Quick, save, reliable (dying screens...), easy and blindly to find over-ride whenever needed!

 

[tomas]

If you piece together electrek and Musk, it would say can be overridden on screen and with buttons “below phone charger” which - assuming charger panel hinges up as in 3 - makes them not visible in picture. So, maybe 3 ways: AI, screen somewhere, and manual backup under charger. If so, that covers off concerns about backup for dead MCU. What’s left are questions of: competency of the AI, and ergonomics of the on screen override. Personally, I’ll withhold judgment until I experience. I welcome this blue sky thinking about reinvention. If there had been an internet forum at the advent of the automatic transmission, it would have featured the same closed-mindedness and skepticism.

 

[DoctorVenkman]

If there had been an internet forum at the advent of the automatic transmission, it would have featured the same closed-mindedness and skepticism.

I don't know why you have to use pejorative terms like closed-mindedness. Skepticism of change is healthy, especially when there are obvious downsides that have not been addressed by Tesla. Not all innovation ends with good results - I've seen plenty of duds in my time and I'm sure you have too.

That being said I'm sure everyone on this forum would gladly adopt the changes if they work well, but as of now that is up for debate based on the information we currently have. Hence the discussion on this forum.I'll never understand why people try to shut down healthy discussion just because it goes against their opinion.

 

[46&2]

Personally, I’ll withhold judgment until I experience.

This!

And it does work together with this:

That being said I'm sure everyone on this forum would gladly adopt the changes if they work well, but as of now that is up for debate based on the information we currently have.

A debate must be OK, or not? But then

I'll never understand why people try to shut down healthy discussion just because it goes against their opinion.

I never wanted to shut down healthy discussion. Sorry if you thought so.

I was adressing those that said it MUST suck because it's new, never been like that.

(Which is utterly wrong anyway. Horses guess, and have always guessed, the direction. Driver needs to override if not happy woth choice of 'gear' ... )

 

[DoctorVenkman]

I never wanted to shut down healthy discussion. Sorry if you thought so.

Not directed at you. IMO your posts have been fine even if we disagree some

I was talking about the folks who claim that no one should question Tesla's changes. I think all good-faith criticism should be welcome without prejudice.

 

[samThree]

How about using right scroll wheel for gear selection? scroll up for forward and down for reverse and press left for parking break? that right scroll wheel is with in reach of thumb and it has tactile feedback so we don't have to take our eyes of road.

 

[aesculus]

PS, given how few people use turn signals properly, I only have hope that new system somehow improves compliance. Don’t know how it can get worse!!

I hope so too. But when I was taught to drive centuries ago we were told (by law?) that you signaled intent, not action. So I would really like to see how Tesla is going to pull off that one in cases such as lane changes. Pretty easy for turns at intersections if you are running with NAV.

 

[tomas]

I hope so too. But when I was taught to drive centuries ago we were told (by law?) that you signaled intent, not action. So I would really like to see how Tesla is going to pull off that one in cases such as lane changes. Pretty easy for turns at intersections if you are running with NAV.

Well... my experience with AP is that if you use the turn signal to "automagically" initiate lane change, it will begin blinking while the car assesses the opportunity... which is usually a sufficient warning. Also, if it determines that a lane change is not feasible, the blinker will still blink - indicating your intent. So, if they just use that behaviour, I think they've got auto lane change covered... signaling better than most drivers! I never let NOA do its own lane changes, so I don't know how far in advance it signals. Maybe someone can chime in?

 

[tomas]

A debate must be OK, or not? But then

Well, that's what I thought too. Love the horse thing. Never debate with a horse!

 

[46&2]

How about using right scroll wheel for gear selection? scroll up for forward and down for reverse and press left for parking break? that right scroll wheel is with in reach of thumb and it has tactile feedback so we don't have to take our eyes of road.

Had that idea too. Not about the exact wheel config, but using the wheels as such. Coming from a Model S, I anyway think everything should be on the LEFT wheel.

... we were told (by law?) that you signaled intent, not action. ...

C'mon, so oldschool (me in the same boat ).

Many people I see driving around my car don't signal intent. They don't signal action. They signal for confirmation of operation, aka about afterwards...