New Highland UK - stalks

[MkPotato]

I got the feeling a few manufacturers ran to be like Tesla initially with the big screen (most had screens before Tesla, just not as dominant) but later designs are bringing back buttons for basic every day controls like heating and we’re getting more of a mixture. Others are sticking with a rotary controller to aid navigating the screen on the move. Tesla don’t which has made a 3rd party market for the sexy controller.

Aston Martin had completely flush door handles before Tesla, Tesla didn’t invent that.

Ferrari had stalkless indicators before Tesla, so didn’t invent that either, and virtually nobody thought it worth copying

Wipers will probably never work well. A simple physics assessment tells you that a camera with a focal length and aperture that’s ideal for seeing the road isnt going to be good at picking up stuff on the windscreen, do the test yourself, stand close to a window and look outside to the distance and anything on the glass all but disappears. We’re nearly 8 years on from when they took away the rain sensor, there comes a time when you should accept defeat and not be stubborn.

Tesla are avoiding head up displays and augmented reality. They’re great tech

We’re getting excited about adaptive headlights which have been around for years on other cars

So those that talk about the Tesla technofest and innovation everyone will follow, what exactly are we referring to other than games and fart noises? Tesla are challenging lots of things, sure, but it feels they just want to be different for the sake of being different, or if it’s cheaper to build, not because it’s better. Take cheaper construction with mega castings, does it made the car better? The BMW innovation in this area was carbon core technology, material science, composites.. which of those two sounds more high tech? That probably just leaves autopilot and we’ve hardly been blessed with progress in Europe

Theres a lot I like about Tesla, supercharging network making the idea of EVs viable, but I’m increasingly thinking what I like is actually common to many EVs, some power train etc, and charging isn’t a concern like it once was.

Exbloodylactly. The “Tesla are leading innovation” line is laughable. Granted, in some areas eg the drivetrain they are class-leading, but in other “tech” areas they’re comically inept (eg wipers, park assist, self-park, adaptive cruise speed camera recognition). They’re also instrumental in the infuriating removal of buttons that many other manufacturers are now inflicting on us.

It doesn’t help that they play the Apple-esque game of introducing innovations that have been around for ages as their own - which is then lapped-up by the faithful.

 

[Jules22]

lol, wow, clearly a LOT of hate here and a lot of people who don't seem to have any experience or knowledge of software development.

I think it's best to just agree to disagree. Clearly nobody is changing their minds as George pointed out.

 

[Pants]

lol, wow, clearly a LOT of hate here and a lot of people who don't seem to have any experience or knowledge of software development.

I think it's best to just agree to disagree. Clearly nobody is changing their minds as George pointed out.

What has the removal of stalks got to do with software development? It’s a cost cutting exercise.

Actually don’t answer as you have indicated you won’t won’t be commenting further on this thread. Unless you are still on a mission to convert the ignorant.

 

[Betelgeused]

I got the feeling a few manufacturers ran to be like Tesla initially with the big screen (most had screens before Tesla, just not as dominant) but later designs are bringing back buttons for basic every day controls like heating and we’re getting more of a mixture. Others are sticking with a rotary controller to aid navigating the screen on the move. Tesla don’t which has made a 3rd party market for the sexy controller.

Aston Martin had completely flush door handles before Tesla, Tesla didn’t invent that.

Ferrari had stalkless indicators before Tesla, so didn’t invent that either, and virtually nobody thought it worth copying

Wipers will probably never work well. A simple physics assessment tells you that a camera with a focal length and aperture that’s ideal for seeing the road isnt going to be good at picking up stuff on the windscreen, do the test yourself, stand close to a window and look outside to the distance and anything on the glass all but disappears. We’re nearly 8 years on from when they took away the rain sensor, there comes a time when you should accept defeat and not be stubborn.

Tesla are avoiding head up displays and augmented reality. They’re great tech

We’re getting excited about adaptive headlights which have been around for years on other cars

So those that talk about the Tesla technofest and innovation everyone will follow, what exactly are we referring to other than games and fart noises? Tesla are challenging lots of things, sure, but it feels they just want to be different for the sake of being different, or if it’s cheaper to build, not because it’s better. Take cheaper construction with mega castings, does it made the car better? The BMW innovation in this area was carbon core technology, material science, composites.. which of those two sounds more high tech? That probably just leaves autopilot and we’ve hardly been blessed with progress in Europe

Theres a lot I like about Tesla, supercharging network making the idea of EVs viable, but I’m increasingly thinking what I like is actually common to many EVs, some power train etc, and charging isn’t a concern like it once was.

Great post. @Jules22 - said as someone who's led software development teams for a long time.

 

[Pagemakers]

Random: does the cybertruck have a rain sensor?

 

[MrT3]

Random: does the cybertruck have a rain sensor?

No, and cybertruck launched without any auto wiper functionality at all - although I think it has now got that with a software update.

 

[browellm]

I’d say a manual car with gears and a clutch are more difficult to master than buttons on a steering wheel, people seem to have no issues with those. Operating buttons when the steering wheel is upside down isn’t difficult, you just press the other button!! It’s something you just learn (like people do with clutch/gears).

Does the gearbox H-gate invert when you're going around a corner? Please tell me more.

 

[browellm]

Arent indicator buttons on the steering wheels of Ferrari’s? Hasn’t stopped them shifting a lot of cars and having the highest operating margins in the industry…indicator buttons on a steering wheel are a non issue.

Actually it did. They've reverted.

 

[browellm]

It just picks a direction that is still valid and safe but not optimal.

Genuine lol.

Had an amusing 20 minutes catching up with this thread. The usual stans painting their lord and saviour as Megamind - lads he's done it to increase his margin. He doesn't give a tuppenny f*ck if its better, worse or indifferent (it's worse).

 

[WllXM]

I honestly don’t think that they moved the controls to the wheel primarily to save $2 on stalks.
I believe in Elon’s mind, the decision was taken because it was neater and aesthetically more pleasing.
He just has a complete disregard for ergonomics… how often does he drive his own cars anyway (and take roundabouts with them)?

 

[init6]

He is on record complaining about the number of parts in the steering wheel. So either he is driving this change or some one else thinks it's a good way to appease his boss.

I've also never met a capitalist who would turn down savings of $2 x 1.8m cars.

 

[Zilla91]

I've also never met a capitalist who would turn down savings of $2 x 1.8m cars.

And who would then burn more than that amount on a rear screen that’ll rarely be used

 

[trueblue_ips]

My take on it is that it is not about cost savings, primarily at least. Just doesn’t make any sense if you then offset those savings with yet more speakers and a rear screen that most people won’t use most of the time.
I think Musk is completely obsessed with automation and self drive. He wants to be the Henry Ford of self drive cars. Rather than just build the very best electric car he can, every design decision is made with the goal of FSD in mind. His view is that we won’t need to indicate turns because we’ll just put a journey into the satnav or say “drive me to work” and the car will plan the journey and execute the necessary indicator turn signals. Personally, I think this this deluded thinking, particularly with the Road configurations we have in the UK. But then I don’t think he cares much about any territory outside of the US. His cars are designed and built for the US, all other markets are an afterthought. Will Europe ever see the cybertruck, highly doubtful. Model S/X are no longer available in RHD etc.

 

[FastLaneJB]

I got the feeling a few manufacturers ran to be like Tesla initially with the big screen (most had screens before Tesla, just not as dominant) but later designs are bringing back buttons for basic every day controls like heating and we’re getting more of a mixture. Others are sticking with a rotary controller to aid navigating the screen on the move. Tesla don’t which has made a 3rd party market for the sexy controller.

Aston Martin had completely flush door handles before Tesla, Tesla didn’t invent that.

Ferrari had stalkless indicators before Tesla, so didn’t invent that either, and virtually nobody thought it worth copying

Wipers will probably never work well. A simple physics assessment tells you that a camera with a focal length and aperture that’s ideal for seeing the road isnt going to be good at picking up stuff on the windscreen, do the test yourself, stand close to a window and look outside to the distance and anything on the glass all but disappears. We’re nearly 8 years on from when they took away the rain sensor, there comes a time when you should accept defeat and not be stubborn.

Tesla are avoiding head up displays and augmented reality. They’re great tech

We’re getting excited about adaptive headlights which have been around for years on other cars

So those that talk about the Tesla technofest and innovation everyone will follow, what exactly are we referring to other than games and fart noises? Tesla are challenging lots of things, sure, but it feels they just want to be different for the sake of being different, or if it’s cheaper to build, not because it’s better. Take cheaper construction with mega castings, does it made the car better? The BMW innovation in this area was carbon core technology, material science, composites.. which of those two sounds more high tech? That probably just leaves autopilot and we’ve hardly been blessed with progress in Europe

Theres a lot I like about Tesla, supercharging network making the idea of EVs viable, but I’m increasingly thinking what I like is actually common to many EVs, some power train etc, and charging isn’t a concern like it once was.

I think Tesla is exactly what the market needed at the time and they focused on their mission of bringing EV's to as many as possible. To do that when batteries were so expensive they have focused on manufacturing efficiency and removing unneeded parts where they can out of the car. Rather than buy in, they've tried to build it themselves. when most cars have been getting heavier, theirs are the lightest EV's generally in their segment.

This focus has maybe made them one of the few, if only western companies that might be able to compete in China. All other OEM's will need trade barriers put in place to keep them alive.

Sure not everything Tesla has tried has worked out as well. Rain sensors and probably stalks but you can see it still aligns with their goal of bringing the price down as much as possible while still having a product they think people will buy. Some has worked out nicely, removing radar hasn't really made a massive difference. They look to be on way of having a good enough solution with vision from the removal of USS. Not ignoring the charging of the cars was also an amazingly smart move on their part.

Choice is good, if we don't like it we can shop elsewhere.

 

[FastLaneJB]

And who would then burn more than that amount on a rear screen that’ll rarely be used

I suspect this is big in China where they spend a lot of time stuck in traffic, in-car entertainment is really important for them.

 

[ACarneiro]

I suspect this is big in China where they spend a lot of time stuck in traffic, in-car entertainment is really important for them.

Do most of their stuck-in-traffic journeys include passengers in the back seat, though?
(Honest question, I have zero knowledge of traffic and driving patterns in China)

 

[ACarneiro]

Not ignoring the charging of the cars was also an amazingly smart move on their part.

This was an absolute stroke of genius. I’m sure Tesla (and maybe even EVs on the whole) wouldn’t be anywhere as prevalent today if they hadn’t had the foresight to sort out the charging infrastructure with such a good network so early on.

Agree with the rest of the post and strongly agree with the bit about choice.

I personally still dislike their interiors, though. And more so with every physical-control-removing iteration.

 

[FastLaneJB]

In terms of software and features. Companies like MobileEye make a lot of the parts + software for basic functionality that cars have had. You buy it off them as a component with the SoC, software and such then hook it into the Canbus. Tesla's approach is to use their FSD computer to do the work of these, plus write their own software so they don't have to pay a third party for it. This isn't always easy as they are starting from scratch plus no doubt have to avoid patents that exist also.

Fact Sheet: Mobileye Advanced Driver-Assistance Systems (ADAS) | Mobileye Blog

I only mention this when people say other OEM's have better capabilities. Most other OEM's don't have this capability at all, they just buy it off the shelf. Does it matter to the end user? No but longer term Tesla has been able to do things for cheaper than other OEM's. This has put them in a good spot now, even if they still haven't cracked everything companies like MobileEye have.

I think other OEM's are trying to copy Tesla and pull things in-house. That's for instance why my Lotus Eletre is rubbish when it comes to things like adaptive cruise control, matrix headlights and so on. I don't think it's off the shelf, they've tried to write it themselves and it's poor.

Do most of their stuck-in-traffic journeys include passengers in the back seat, though?
(Honest question, I have zero knowledge of traffic and driving patterns in China)

Well I guess considering their population size, they might well be using all the seats in their cars quite a bit but honestly don't know for sure.

I suspect the cost of a touchscreen in this day and age isn't much. It's probably using the same processing power shared with the front screen so no more compute needed. It's nicer to be able to control your own heated seats and such from the back I'm sure.

I think it's too low to use to watch stuff personally but kids are less likely to be bothered. Especially when you are parked up and charging for a bit for instance, can help keep them quiet and amused. Younger kids here that don't have their own phones / tablets.

 

[Zilla91]

Cars in for a service tomorrow so taking the opportunity to test drive the highland.

An interesting one for me personally as it’s just dawned on me that other than the indicator buttons always being on the move, it’ll also be a test to see if there’s any discomfort using it as I have de quervain's so thumb doesnt move as freely as it used to and it causes considerable pain if I try to move it about too much

 

[Durzel]

Arent indicator buttons on the steering wheels of Ferrari’s? Hasn’t stopped them shifting a lot of cars and having the highest operating margins in the industry…indicator buttons on a steering wheel are a non issue.

I’m lucky enough to have experience in this, and all I’d say is that the indicators on a Ferrari are physical switches that are in easy, intuitive reach of your thumbs, on either side of the wheel in natural left and right position. The steering rack is much tighter too, more like a go kart than a car.

The indicators are a non-issue on those cars for that reason.