I suppose this is obviously a joke and there is really no regular wheel option? A shame, only thing standing between me and spending 100k on a Tesla...
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New design - With no stalks how do you change directions or signal?
- Thread starter jboy210
- Start date
I suppose this is obviously a joke and there is really no regular wheel option? A shame, only thing standing between me and spending 100k on a Tesla...
That image was available on Tesla's site last night if you changed the option code from ST0Y to ST03. This morning, the image is no longer available.
It's possible Tesla forgot to disable certain option combinations in the image compositor until people started posting/tweeting about the regular steering wheel...but that option did return the above image for several hours.
So if the touch screen doesn't work or has a hard time booting up and you have a bike rack or trailer and need to backup you are out of luck. With the sensors blocked you are screwed. Same thing if the sensors are blocked by snow or aren't working for some reason. So every time you want to change direction you have to do it through the screen. Seams like a pain in the ass
I saw his tweet also. I hope he is BSing. If not, no more Teslas for me.
The lease on my X is up in May, guess I need to look at something else.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
There is another hidden option called SJOY:
If you changed the option code from ST0Y to SJOY the Yoke Steering wheel becomes a Joystick
so when you press on it the car accelerate and when you pull it the car decelerate.
With the SJOY option, beside the gear stalk been removed,
the brake and the accelerator pedals are also removed.
Note: The SJOY option includes an exclusive SpaceX video game called VTOL SX and a special VR helmet.so when you press on it the car accelerate and when you pull it the car decelerate.
With the SJOY option, beside the gear stalk been removed,
the brake and the accelerator pedals are also removed.
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We'll see soon enough, but if I had to guess, this will be configurable/toggle-able as an option. The main gear selector will be on the center console (confirmed) which isn't as ideal as a stalk, but certainly not unprecedented by a long shot.
If you read on, directional signals are activated from touch areas on the steering yoke, and drive select on an isolated panel (which I am not sure exactly where).. Neither screen is absolutely required to drive, although you can't tell where you are going, or how fast you are getting there. In reality, the whole set up makes a lot of sense sense to me. After all even today, we rarely have to actually touch the drive select. Even less if the car auto selects and gets is right 60% of the time (I would expect much better than that). I am really intrigued by the active noise cancelation system. Plus the whole thing is almost 20K less than I paid for my 2018! I've been thinking about upgrading my X to a Model Y, but now, not so sure. Hmmm....
Apparently there will be a manual override somewhere in the software menu. At this point no one knows exactly how you will override the car's decision, but I can't imagine it'd be as easy as a stalk. Imagine trying to parallel park on a busy road, or doing a 3 point turn, or backing out of a tight parking lot, and having to constantly fiddle with the override on the menu. Doesn't seem super safe to me - would be easy to get distracted and/or lose track of what gear you're in since you'd have to constantly take your eyes off the road.
DIL
Member
What ever happened to all the innovative early adopters that were supposed to be tesla fans? I haven’t heard this much griping since they did away with the horse and buggy. We have no idea how the gear selector will be implemented but if you’re not interested in trying it you can always go buy a Ford Bronco. Seriously. It looks cool and you get to keep all your legacy controls that have evolved incrementally since the industrial revolution. Part of the Tesla brand - and the bargain you make with Elon - is that we’re all driving the future by being beta testers. We are lucky to have a company that is brave enough to rethink EVERYTHING. Have some faith or walk.
If you think about it, there are many cues to the next action during any of the direction changes we would make during these maneuvers. In parallel parking, you’re probably riding the brake moving very slowly, the steering wheel is at much more acute or obtuse angles than normal driving, then when you’re ready to switch direction, you’re pushing the brake harder to stop, then start turning the wheel then switch direction. At the same time, your are going to be close to an object and likely a curb. I think there are probably many micro cues the system can easily detect to trigger a direction change, this compared to the decisions and logical considerations made during FSD will be relatively simple.
In all, I think it will likely work very well, but agree that the 1% of situations could easily become frustrating, very interested to see practical execution.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
People are highly resistant to change, and it shows in posts like these.
Without knowing any facts, we often envision the worst case possible and in our minds immediatly reject new items. Usually want to maintain a status quo that we have allready figured out.
There are lots of posts about owners crashing their own cars with unintended acceleration, where they press on the accelerator instead of the brake. Perhaps Tesla is tired of this happening to their cars and has invented a better solution. Your car will use it's sensors and pre select the appropriate gear choice. If the driver does not like this choice, they can override it by pressing a button on the display or on the center console. Right now the gear selection is a dumb lever. The driver must turn on their car by stepping on the brake, look at the center display and push or pull a lever until the proper gear shows up on the display. Would be nice to have the car preselect the gear and driver would only need to glance at the display to confirm and go on their way.
Imagine that this will initially be strange for owners, but withing a few drives will become totally natural.
In the past, most all cars were manual transmissions. People were resistant to turning over gear choices to an automatic transmission. They wanted that clutch and their experience to maintain complete control of torque applications. Felt that they were better able to manually select proper gears than leaving it up to the automatic to select the gears for them. Claimed that they could look ahead and preselect the proper gear and "beat" the automatic. They felt they could get better fuel economy and performance by manually rowing their own gears. Over the years this has become old thinking, and modern automatic transmissions can usuall beat all but the best manual drivers for fuel economy and performance.
If FSD is to become a reality, then cars will need to be able to sense their surroundings and determine which gear to engage. They will need to be able to pull out of a garage or parking space, cruise to their destination, pull up and hook up to charging stations, parallel park, drive backwards as well as forward etc. I believe that the new transmission selector will be a step that it moves Tesla forward in it's goal of Full Self Driving.
Without knowing any facts, we often envision the worst case possible and in our minds immediatly reject new items. Usually want to maintain a status quo that we have allready figured out.
There are lots of posts about owners crashing their own cars with unintended acceleration, where they press on the accelerator instead of the brake. Perhaps Tesla is tired of this happening to their cars and has invented a better solution. Your car will use it's sensors and pre select the appropriate gear choice. If the driver does not like this choice, they can override it by pressing a button on the display or on the center console. Right now the gear selection is a dumb lever. The driver must turn on their car by stepping on the brake, look at the center display and push or pull a lever until the proper gear shows up on the display. Would be nice to have the car preselect the gear and driver would only need to glance at the display to confirm and go on their way.
Imagine that this will initially be strange for owners, but withing a few drives will become totally natural.
In the past, most all cars were manual transmissions. People were resistant to turning over gear choices to an automatic transmission. They wanted that clutch and their experience to maintain complete control of torque applications. Felt that they were better able to manually select proper gears than leaving it up to the automatic to select the gears for them. Claimed that they could look ahead and preselect the proper gear and "beat" the automatic. They felt they could get better fuel economy and performance by manually rowing their own gears. Over the years this has become old thinking, and modern automatic transmissions can usuall beat all but the best manual drivers for fuel economy and performance.
If FSD is to become a reality, then cars will need to be able to sense their surroundings and determine which gear to engage. They will need to be able to pull out of a garage or parking space, cruise to their destination, pull up and hook up to charging stations, parallel park, drive backwards as well as forward etc. I believe that the new transmission selector will be a step that it moves Tesla forward in it's goal of Full Self Driving.
People don't like this change because it doesn't add any value. It takes a microscopic amount of effort to change gears with the gear stalk. Literally just a 0.2 second flick of a finger. Instead, they are replacing that incredibly simple and effective system with an overly complex and error-prone automatic system.
Even if the auto gear selection only miscalculates 1% of the time, that is 1% more than the stalk. I've never had the stalk go into drive when I pushed it to go into reverse. It will eventually end up causing accidents that wouldn't have happened with a stalk, even if they are rare.
Compare that to innovations such as: big MCU screen, panoramic windshield, supercharger network, autopilot, etc. etc. which all add a TON of value with little downside. It's easy to see why people liked other Tesla innovations but not this one.
Also I don't buy the FSD argument. Take the controls away when FSD is fully functioning, not before. As of right now I still have to manually control my vehicle in a lot of situations, and I don't want to have my control taken away until FSD completely ready.
Even if the auto gear selection only miscalculates 1% of the time, that is 1% more than the stalk. I've never had the stalk go into drive when I pushed it to go into reverse. It will eventually end up causing accidents that wouldn't have happened with a stalk, even if they are rare.
Compare that to innovations such as: big MCU screen, panoramic windshield, supercharger network, autopilot, etc. etc. which all add a TON of value with little downside. It's easy to see why people liked other Tesla innovations but not this one.
Also I don't buy the FSD argument. Take the controls away when FSD is fully functioning, not before. As of right now I still have to manually control my vehicle in a lot of situations, and I don't want to have my control taken away until FSD completely ready.
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aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
I think you may have hit the nail on the head here. For Tesla to really figure out FSD they need to be engaged in the whole process, including shifting directions etc. So this step is required to get enough people to not use a manual system that would interfere with them collecting appropriate data to ensure they have the correct algorithms.
The correct way to do this would be to have a shadow system predicting which gear the driver will engage, and then collect data and learn from that. It's not appropriate to take away driver controls in anticipation of FSD, when FSD is years away from being a reality.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Perhaps Tesla has already done that. Been collecting sensor data for years.
Jetpad
Member
I think it may be related to Tesla Insurance. The data they've collected probably shows them when and where most of the accidents occur. If Tesla, in the future, plans to be the one that'll be paying for those repairs, they are heavily interested in avoiding those accidents and probably think they can do a better job if the car decides if it is safe to change from neutral to forward or reverse.
henderrj
Active Member
I've only driven a couple of model 3s, and probably no more than two hours total, but I really didn't perceive any such thing in the steering there. I don't think it changes at highway speed from what it is at slow speed. You just notice it more because the speed means that the slightest wheel movement changes vehicle direction More noticeably.
Since current law requires a direct link between the steering wheel and the wheels of the car, I don't see how this is even possible. But I could be wrong. Enlighten me!
I wonder how this will work with something I do every day, I back into my garage. So I come down the road in forward, go 1/2 past my driveway and shift into reverse. How is the car going to "guess" this correctly?
FWIW, I do ML/AI all the time and really want to see their model and more importantly their dataset for training the model for these scenarios. Hopefully, Andrej and company can surprise everyone.
FWIW, I do ML/AI all the time and really want to see their model and more importantly their dataset for training the model for these scenarios. Hopefully, Andrej and company can surprise everyone.
