NEW Model 3 Highland review!

[zoomer0056]

unless you mindlessly repeat whatever Elon says

What's a thing that he says that others repeat?

 

[sleepydoc]

Except Tesla had been doing the opposite, they have done massive price cuts to the great complaint of existing owners (plenty of threads here). This is made possible by moves like this that reduce costs. A lot existing owners would rather they keep the car the same price or set the price higher and higher, but that's not what's happening.

Disagree - First, do the math - how many $20 parts do you need to allow for a $10,000 price cut? The price cuts were made because of market forces not because they saved a few bucks here and there. I’m not saying they’re completely unrelated; rarely is anything completely cut and dry in business and manufacturing and Tesla clearly needs to maintain a profit margin, but they would not have cut the prices if they didn’t need to, that’s simply business. Saying “if they hadn’t removed this piece I would have payed $20 more for the car” is a naive oversimplification.

Also, see my previous post - if you look at the parts used with the stalks and without the stalks it’s not at all clear that there was any cost savings at all. They simply traded parts and increased complexity in other areas.

 

[sleepydoc]

What's a thing that he says that others repeat?

“The best part is no part”

 

[zoomer0056]

“The best part is no part”

Good one, how "bout another.

 

[sleepydoc]

Good one, how "bout another.

“The yoke is a good idea because airplanes use it!” (Airplanes also use flaps but I don’t see anyone suggesting they add flaps to a Model S!)

Edit: as Elon has gotten wackier there are fewer people who blindly follow them but you still see people accepting what he says with far too little critical thinking. He’s done some brilliant things but he also seems to be moving in the Howard Hughes direction lately.

 

[zoomer0056]

“The yoke is a good idea because airplanes use it!” (Airplanes also use flaps but I don’t see anyone suggesting they add flaps to a Model S!)

Show me where Mr Musk said this.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Disagree - First, do the math - how many $20 parts do you need to allow for a $10,000 price cut? The price cuts were made because of market forces not because they saved a few bucks here and there. I’m not saying they’re completely unrelated; rarely is anything completely cut and dry in business and manufacturing and Tesla clearly needs to maintain a profit margin, but they would not have cut the prices if they didn’t need to, that’s simply business. Saying “if they hadn’t removed this piece I would have payed $20 more for the car” is a naive oversimplification.

Also, see my previous post - if you look at the parts used with the stalks and without the stalks it’s not at all clear that there was any cost savings at all. They simply traded parts and increased complexity in other areas.

They were made due to market forces, but the cuts are only possible because they have the margin available for it, and that margin is only possible because of cost cutting moves like this one. It's a fairly simple concept. If you watch Munro, this is a strategy is used by most automakers, which is why they stress over pennies in cost.

And even in cases where the price remains the same, there are a tradeoff of features made possible. For example, Highland now has ambient lighting, cooled seats, a rear screen. But there are other features cut, like removal of stalks, removal of heated rear center, cloth based materials in the cabin.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Good one, how "bout another.

“All input is error.”

 

[gx9901]

I test drove the new Model 3 last week and have test driven the current Model S with a yoke. I dislike the buttons for turn signal stalks but my guess is that if I had to drive one daily I can get used to it. The main issue for me is that I seem to be the only person I've ever seen that signals out of a roundabout, of which I go though multiple times a day because there's one about a mile from my house that I go through every day. Using a stalk is easy to signal while in the roundabout, but very hard with those buttons.

I think the turn signal buttons really should be paired to a drive by wire steering wheel/yoke. That way your hand would never need to come off the wheel so it's more intuitive to direct your thumb to push the correct turn signal button. I also think if you're going to turn signal buttons on the steering wheel, I'd rather one on each side instead of both on the left.

As for the updated Model 3, I thought it was nice. Very smooth suspension setup (at least compared to my 21 MYP) and interior seems like a slight upgrade overall. I love the ambient light strip, but the center console covers felt just a little bit cheaper for some reason. If my next car is going to be another Tesla, it will probably need to have drive by wire though, assuming the stalks are gone forever.

 

[zoomer0056]

“All input is error.”

Show me where someone is "mindlessly parroting" this?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Show me where someone is "mindlessly parroting" this?

Probably not so much direct quotes with that one, but there is definitely a connection between this idea and the Rise of the Robotaxis, which is imminent, and widely parroted.

Anyway the other quote is more relevant for this thread.

 

[JuanF1]

Having to learn and get used to a whole new way of operating car just to save a few bucks on mechanical stalks. It doesn't sound worth it.

I'm not saying I was waiting to get a car without stalks, just saying it took limited time (for me) to learn to deal with the stalkless driving. For my next car, I don't care if it's with or without, both are equally fine. After a bit more than 1 week, it has become an automatism, just like it was an automatism to operate the stalks.
When deciding to get the M3, having no stalks has never been a point in my decision tree. I knew they were not there.

I do understand that for some people having no stalks may be a dealbreaker.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I'm not saying I was waiting to get a car without stalks, just saying it took limited time (for me) to learn to deal with the stalkless driving. For my next car, I don't care if it's with or without, both are equally fine. After a bit more than 1 week, it has become an automatism, just like it was an automatism to operate the stalks.
When deciding to get the M3, having no stalks has never been a point in my decision tree. I knew they were not there.

I do understand that for some people having no stalks may be a dealbreaker.

When I got my Model 3, I had to get used to hold mode and using a stalk as a shifter (all my previous cars I drove has them in the center console), so it's not like the older Model 3 had no difference with how most typical cars are either.

 

[zoomer0056]

When I got my Model 3, I had to get used to hold mode and using a stalk as a shifter (all my previous cars I drove has them in the center console), so it's not like the older Model 3 had no difference with how most typical cars are either.

I never had a stalked Tesla (yoked 2022 MSLR). In reading, it seemed counter intuitive that stalk up was reverse and stalk down was forward. Now with screen shift it seems more intuitive with up is forward and down is reverse.

 

[dusty22]

Highland now has ambient lighting, cooled seats, a rear screen. But there are other features cut, like removal of stalks, removal of heated rear center, cloth based materials in the cabin.

Fog lights gone too...

 

[3sr+buyer]

When I got my Model 3, I had to get used to hold mode and using a stalk as a shifter (all my previous cars I drove has them in the center console),

You never drove a car with a column shifter before? Admittedly, they were more common when bench front seats were more common.

 

[stopcrazypp]

You never drove a car with a column shifter before? Admittedly, they were more common when bench front seats were more common.

Nope, the oldest car I drove is my old 91 Camry and it has a console shifter. I know there are pickups and vans of that era that has column shifters, but I never drove them. I did ride in an old Taurus however with bench seats that had a column shifter, but didn't drive it.

 

[Sambub]

Stocks or no stocks, the car has been improved considerably. Just test drove a LR today. Looking forward to the upcoming Y upgrade.

 

[sleepydoc]

Show me where Mr Musk said this.

I can’t find a reference to the quote - when I try to search for it everything that comes up is more recent articles. It’s possible I’m mis-remembering, or it’s just buried deeper in the internet archives than I’m willing to dig.

Interestingly, I found several references to Elon categorically stating the steering wheel was not coming back. (user: “any chance of a normal steering wheel option?” Musk: “No”) Consumers pretty much vetoed that statement!

 

[sleepydoc]

I think the turn signal buttons really should be paired to a drive by wire steering wheel/yoke. That way your hand would never need to come off the wheel so it's more intuitive to direct your thumb to push the correct turn signal button. I also think if you're going to turn signal buttons on the steering wheel, I'd rather one on each side instead of both on the left.

This is another reason removing the stalks is a dumb idea - currently, the turn signal is always in the same position. You always know where to find it. By putting buttons on the wheel, Tesla has made it so the position changes as the wheel moves. I’ve tried muting the radio when I’m turning the wheel - I only get it right about 2/3’s of the time.

Other drawbacks - they are harder to find if you don’t have your left hand right next to them. They also completely fail if you have any issues limiting the use of your left thumb.