New renderings of storage space and 2nd row seats! (9/15)

[Oyvind.H]

We have free helthcare, free schools, free education, to mention a few. Watch the Sicko-movie by Michael Moore.

And of course - our high prices on everything makes the Model S/X..... an middle class car
Who in their right mind would buy a BMW 520D over a Model S

Anyways - back on topic:
I`m not sure how I feel about the 2nd row not being able to fold flat.
In the Model S I`ve several times put items inside the car that were just able to fit lenghtwise. Sometimes I`ve even had to move the front seats forward (either one or both), but I`ve always found room for things.
I even used the roofrack to carry 4,5 meter long construction wood. But reading this forum I get the feeling that Norwegians are way more “I`ll do it myself” than americans.
With the Model X I know for sure I`ll have to buy a trailer to haul stuff, but that`s fine with me although I wish the car had the ability to use a roofrack. And because of the increased height long and wide items might fit after all by letting one end rest on top of the 2nd row seats, and the other end rest into the rear trunk hole.

Either way - with the Model S I always try to avoid using the roofrack because of wind resistance/consumption, noise and the marks that the roofrack leaves on the roof. The enormous frunk and the room underneath the floor of the trunk made the skibox unnecessary last summer for a 2000km road trip. And with i.e. seasucker one should be able to carry smaller items on the roof of the car, if it`s preferred over the hitch system. I do hope the cargo space with 6 seats in place is about the same as the Model S with 5 seats in use. And with a hitch luggage solution I`ll have the roadtrip space I need.

 

[speedmind]

Integrated seatbelts and foldable seats exist. This is Mercedes' interior:

Having said that each time they are comparable to armchairs rather than car seats...

 

[yobigd20]

I step away from my phone for meeting and with in a couple hours there is this post of 12 pages!

I fink it bye resting to hear people complaining about how a bike fits or doesn't fit in back of an X... Seriously folks! We have been looking at the Model X prototypes and mules for how many years? We have been talking about inside space for years.. Comments like "oh my Model S can fit a bike as well with the seats down". GOSH... The model X seats SEVEN (7). The Model S seats 5+2.. Need 7 seats, get an X. You need 5, get an S. That simple. The are tons of bike racks that fit on the back of a car such as the Model X.

Oh! And these are Signature Seats.. The might even be a different seat option for the 2nd row. Who knows!

Just my my two cents (5 cents in Canada as we don't have pennies any more plus the USA conversion)

My bet:

Model X Sig tax = seats that don't fold. Tesla will correct this and regular production will have folding seats and more room.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

So went to look at configuration options again this morning and two new renderings (I don't think they are photos) showed up:
...
View attachment 94220

Maybe somebody's already mentioned it, but I'm suspicious of the position of the front seats.

 

[Mark Z]

I think that's why the accessory hitch is standard. You can carry your skis, bikes and small luggage containers via the accessory hitch since they might not fit inside if you are using the second row seats.

Walmart to the rescue! http://www.walmart.com/tp/bike-hitch

 

[simplejack]

This is what people wanted and clearly Tesla failed to deliver.

View attachment 94373

More like this:

So far, the failed to deliver is accurate.....

 

[WestCoastP85D]

Do you think this will be an option on the regular production version? I really confused as to the thinking here.

More like this:

View attachment 94392

So far, the failed to deliver is accurate.....

 

[Krugerrand]

Just a quick response to the few dismissive statements in this thread.

I find the whole conversation of dismissiveness ironic, seeing neither side has issue with swinging that bat rather capably as evidenced in this thread. I also note the name calling in this thread. Calling people fanboys and such (almost always meant in a derogatory fashion) doesn't help, but we all know that. And while the former comments aren't directed at you specifically, ohmman, you fell into the same pattern of categorizing as others even though it was with good intentions. 'What I see is a number of people who are concerned...' is a way to avoid labelling.

I've been clear about not wanting the FW doors from the beginning. I'm planning to buy the X in spite of the doors because I love what Tesla has done so far, and also because I don't really have a lot of BEV options. Once you're committed to BEV, you also don't have a lot of choices to just "buy another SUV."

You're right, the choices for BEV particular with long range, fast charging, towing, performance metrics etc... are limited. That doesn't mean that you or others don't have choices in life (which you are (mostly) gently being reminded of) like passing on the X, but it might mean you don't like those other choices and that's what really ruffles many people's feathers - the not being able to have what you want or need. It's frustrating and in this case it's a first world problem, so let's give it the appropriate amount of attention and angst instead of going overboard.

We could avoid this whole mess of hurt feelings if we chose to ignore the words that irk us, rather than jamming that glass slipper on our foot, didn't take things so personally, and spent less time obsessing about, well...every itsy, bitsy, tiny detail. And before anyone gets their panties in a wad, that is not me suggesting that cargo space/folding seats in a sUv/cUv is an insignificant detail. Go back and reread the part where I said...'we could avoid this whole mess...'

I'm well-convinced I've accomplished nothing by writing this post.

 

[simplejack]

I find the whole conversation of dismissiveness ironic, seeing neither side has issue with swinging that bat rather capably as evidenced in this thread. I also note the name calling in this thread. Calling people fanboys and such (almost always meant in a derogatory fashion) doesn't help, but we all know that. And while the former comments aren't directed at you specifically, ohmman, you fell into the same pattern of categorizing as others even though it was with good intentions. 'What I see is a number of people who are concerned...' is a way to avoid labelling.



You're right, the choices for BEV particular with long range, fast charging, towing, performance metrics etc... are limited. That doesn't mean that you or others don't have choices in life (which you are (mostly) gently being reminded of) like passing on the X, but it might mean you don't like those other choices and that's what really ruffles many people's feathers - the not being able to have what you want or need. It's frustrating and in this case it's a first world problem, so let's give it the appropriate amount of attention and angst instead of going overboard.

We could avoid this whole mess of hurt feelings if we chose to ignore the words that irk us, rather than jamming that glass slipper on our foot, didn't take things so personally, and spent less time obsessing about, well...every itsy, bitsy, tiny detail. And before anyone gets their panties in a wad, that is not me suggesting that cargo space/folding seats in a sUv/cUv is an insignificant detail. Go back and reread the part where I said...'we could avoid this whole mess...'

I'm well-convinced I've accomplished nothing by writing this post.

I find the whole conversation utterly stupid because it didn't need to happen. If Tesla would have just launched the vehicle like a normal company instead of releasing bits and pieces and allowing rampant speculation and rumor, we wouldn't need these type of conversations. Instead, you have people who are actively in the market for a new vehicle potentially making decisions based on this info.

I've waited for almost 2 years since I gave them my money, so 2 more weeks is fine to get the full details. But going with what I KNOW about the X, I am actively shopping for an alternative in these 2 weeks in case they do not address these items in the regular production cars. There's no need to wait any longer to get another car if I know the X isn't right for me.

No one will ever be able to convince me that this is the way to roll out a new vehicle. The promise of ground breaking features that need to be hidden until the first deliveries take place is just silly. If you want to be a successful car company you need to sell the most cars possible PERIOD. With Tesla's sales model, this means they need to line customers up in advance. Holding back the launch till the latest possible moment does not help you line up more customers, it actually means you will miss customers making purchases now that could have been X customers.

Just makes no sense. The S vs X debate is really only about lifestyle choice. If you want a BEV, you might choose between S vs X. If you are more about the vehicle than the environment, then you aren't shopping an X against the S, you are shopping it against MB, BMW, Volvo, Porsche, Lexus, etc.

 

[Kevin Harney]

It seems there are differing requirements and, certainly opinions. I guess we will have to wait until the 29th or longer to know (assuming the Founders aren't going to measure their vehicles). If there are Signatures delivered on the 29th, then there is some hope of resolving in 2 weeks.

I measured my Audi Q7. With the third row stored flat and the second row passengers comfortable leg room, the storage space is 45 inches x 45 inches. Since I have the front and rear air handlers, the space side-to-side is slightly less than a single air conditioning Q7. That holds four sets of golf clubs (drivers diagonal), with four passengers. That is my requirement. I sometime use the Q7 to transport larger items requiring the folding of the second row seats. That give the Q7 45"x80" cargo floor.

If the Models X can accommodate four sets of clubs and bags and golfers (frunk and rear), then I am good. If the space with the 2nd row moved, twisted, ducked, raised, spooned or otherwise moved, revealing close to 80", I am good as well. My expectation with any vehicle is equal to or better than my existing. I will give Tesla slack to have a Environmentally responsible vehicle. The few times I need to move 4x8 stuff, I'll rent a Home Depot truck for $19 bucks.

I think the Model X will seat 5 golfers and their clubs. It is already said that 2 golf bags will fit in the Frunk.

 

[ohmman]

I'm well-convinced I've accomplished nothing by writing this post.

You've managed to confuse me. :smile:

I was trying to play mediator. Somehow I get the feeling you took me as a villain. I suppose I'll need to work on my clarity in the future.

For context, Kruger, are you 100% committed to a MX purchase?

 

[WestCoastP85D]

IMO, the EV nature of the car was enough to rack up the sales numbers they need. The risks with the bird doors and the fold down seats were not needed. Why not a conservative approach here? I am sure the doors will pull some sales in, but they will also take some sales out.

I find the whole conversation utterly stupid because it didn't need to happen. If Tesla would have just launched the vehicle like a normal company instead of releasing bits and pieces and allowing rampant speculation and rumor, we wouldn't need these type of conversations. Instead, you have people who are actively in the market for a new vehicle potentially making decisions based on this info.

I've waited for almost 2 years since I gave them my money, so 2 more weeks is fine to get the full details. But going with what I KNOW about the X, I am actively shopping for an alternative in these 2 weeks in case they do not address these items in the regular production cars. There's no need to wait any longer to get another car if I know the X isn't right for me.

No one will ever be able to convince me that this is the way to roll out a new vehicle. The promise of ground breaking features that need to be hidden until the first deliveries take place is just silly. If you want to be a successful car company you need to sell the most cars possible PERIOD. With Tesla's sales model, this means they need to line customers up in advance. Holding back the launch till the latest possible moment does not help you line up more customers, it actually means you will miss customers making purchases now that could have been X customers.

Just makes no sense. The S vs X debate is really only about lifestyle choice. If you want a BEV, you might choose between S vs X. If you are more about the vehicle than the environment, then you aren't shopping an X against the S, you are shopping it against MB, BMW, Volvo, Porsche, Lexus, etc.

 

[1208]

How well known is the Mitsubishi Outlander Plugin Hybrid electric vehicle over there? Its half the price of the X but is still an offroader. Sales of those might go up after the X reveal. Robert Llewellyn did a review of it on fully charged show.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

How well known is the Mitsubishi Outlander Plugin Hybrid electric vehicle over there? Its half the price of the X but is still an offroader. Sales of those might go up after the X reveal. Robert Llewellyn did a review of it on fully charged show.

I think small numbers of people know about it. Most in the US have given up on Mitsubishi. Those that knew about the Outlander PHEV thought it could breathe new life into the company. Many of us have been waiting for it for over 3 years. It's not the prettiest and doesn't have the best range but I believe it would fit my needs and allow me to drive using the batteries most of the time. I eliminated it from my list when I was considering the XC90 T8 but once I found out about the T8's range, I eliminated it and began considering Teslas. If the X doesn't fill my needs and the extra bells and whistles don't make it to the S, I may go full circle and consider the Outlander again.

I just want an AWD plug-in vehicle that has a good amount of range and storage. Not a lot of choices out there!

 

[mrdoubleb]

IMO, the EV nature of the car was enough to rack up the sales numbers they need. The risks with the bird doors and the fold down seats were not needed. Why not a conservative approach here? I am sure the doors will pull some sales in, but they will also take some sales out.

The falcon wing doors are not (just) a gimmick to boost sales. The wanted a design that provides a lot of space for passengers to get in and out of the third row without having to ask passengers in the second row to step out and fold the seat forward. Have you ever sat in the back of a 3 door car? Also, they wanted to provide enough headroom so that said passengers do not bump their heads in to the ceiling while they move. At the same time they wanted to avoid the sliding door minivan look - not sexy... certainly not for a car in this price range.

 

[AnOutsider]

I didn't know the Outlander PHEV was available now. With the rav4 EV going off the market, I honestly thought the X was the only one on the horizon.

*edit* all I could find:

Unfortunately, for US buyers, the Mitsubishi Outlander Plug-In has been delayed for years. But a US release is apparently around the corner. (I know, we’ve heard that before, but I’m hopeful the news is for real this time.) Mitsubishi has indicated that the 2017 Mitsubishi Outlander Plug-In will arrive on US shores in the spring of 2016, just 3 seasons away.

 

[1208]

The release date should be on time this time as I have seen a few driving around in my area so its not as if the vehicle is not a success. The 32.5 miles in EV mode is pretty good imho. When browsing the specs has features like controlling climate and charging via phone app, speed limiter and for once a car company other than tesla has put the plug in the usual petrol filling position. http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/outlander/models.aspx?trim=phevgx3h

Still Tesla might pull some cool feature out the bag for the X that makes the PHEV look dated though. Did they pull out a feature for the S when it was revealed that sig reservation holders did not know about?

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I didn't know the Outlander PHEV was available now. With the rav4 EV going off the market, I honestly thought the X was the only one on the horizon.

*edit* all I could find:

Yep. I've been waiting over 3 years for it. It is supposed to finally be released in the United States next spring. While it won't be perfect or as flashy as the X, it will probably cost less than half as much.

It's possible one could get a CPO S and a new Outlander PHEV for less than the price of a nicely loaded new X. When I added to my garage, I planned for this possibility and could fit an extra vehicle if necessary. However, I would prefer to have one vehicle for all of my needs.

 

[dirkhh]

At the same time they wanted to avoid the sliding door minivan look - not sexy... certainly not for a car in this price range.

Bingo. There is no advantage of the falcon door over sliding doors that anyone has been able to identify - except that odd "not sexy" comment. On the flip side there are half a dozen disadvantages I can list. Including the complicated engineering that has brought us the years of delay and now may have contributed to the mess with the second row.
Yes, I knew that Tesla was on this fools' errand when I plopped down money to reserve a Model X. I reserved it DESPITE the silly gimmicky doors. I like them as little today as I liked them two years ago. Maybe less, given what I just said about the impact they appear (to me) to have had on the overall project.
So you and I disagree. They are NOTHING but a gimmick.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Bingo. There is no advantage of the falcon door over sliding doors that anyone has been able to identify - except that odd "not sexy" comment.

That's not really odd. The main reason why crossovers and SUVs sell so well is precisely because minivans with their sliding doors are not sexy. I would think there is a large segment of the market that would not buy any car with sliding doors.

On the other hand, falcon doors are "cool" compared to even conventional doors.

The goal was to beat conventional doors in practicality (although there are tradeoffs) while avoiding the minivan problem.