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New tires at 8k miles? Your advice appreciated.

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Howdy Y'all.

I got my M3 exactly 5 months ago, and for the first 3ish months it drove like a magical unicorn. Then it developed a bit of wheel vibration, so I made an appointment at the closest service center (12 days of waiting, 1.5 hour drive to the SC). I finally got to the appointment hopeful to have my unicorn driving smooth again, but their response was something like... "it's minor, we're not sure what's causing it, treads are even across, we'd *start* with balancing the tires for $175 but we're not sure it'll fix the problem".

That experience was pretty discouraging. On one hand, I realize that alignment and tires are maintenance and consumables, and perhaps most of the employees there drive ICE cars... so maybe I seemed like just a whiny customer complaining about a tiny vibration (sometimes it's fairly prominent, sometimes not so much). On the other hand, the car had less than 7k miles at that appointment.. they didn't rotate the tires (which the manual recommends doing at 6250 miles) or check the alignment, and $175 for tire balancing is *really* expensive. I declined any further service and took my vibrating expensive vehicle home.

My assumption from that experience is that Tesla's service centers (at least this one) have a lot of other Tesla-specific issues to deal with and price their wheel/tire services very high to discourage customers from bringing those issues there. Fair enough... I took the hint and started calling local tire and automotive shops. It's still a car, right? Anyone should be able to figure this out, I thought. Unfortunately, I was very wrong. I visited 6 different places, and called another 4. No one else will touch the car (at least not anyone in a position to actually resolve the issue, not even an alignment). The reasons ranged from liability, lack of alignment specs in their machine, inexperience with Tesla, and in some cases what seemed like anti-Tesla sentiment.

What I did learn from this journey... a friend told me that the tires have some feathering... "probably just rotating them criss-cross will resolve the issue". Bringing it to one place to have them rotated (anti-Tesla I think), the guy pointed out inside-tread wear on the front tires, said *only* Tesla can fix this and refused to touch it. Another young guy at a shop put it on their alignment machine just to check (didn't have the actual specs, used a 2017 Model S specs for reference, and couldn't make any adjustments)... he noted a difference in camber between the front tires. Since the camber can't be adjusted, he suggested it could be an issue with front passenger ball joint (that tire was furthest from the Model S spec).

Running out of options, I scheduled another service. This time for alignment and balancing. I mentioned inside tread wear in the front tires plus the vibration. The response I received in the app is the typical "Approve your estimate now for a faster service appointment". The estimate is for $1,100 and includes $570 for 2 new tires, $100 for putting them on, $300 for an alignment, and $50 for tire rotation. This situation now feels *very* wrong to me. The vehicle has just over 8,000 miles and needs new tires? Granted, they haven't seen these tires yet... perhaps the story will change at my appointment.

Service appointments are never fun. I'm outnumbered, and by people who have more experience than me. I'm posting here so that I can be as prepared as possible. Has anyone here had a similar experience that would be willing to lend some advice? I'm inclined to pay them only for rotation and alignment and keep the same tires... that'll still be almost $400 in overpriced services for a brand new car (sheesh). I certainly won't pay $1,000 every 5 months for two new tires, but that's what this estimate seems to advocate.

Thanks for taking the time to read and for any advice you're willing to throw my way.
 
Attached are photos of one of the front tires, as well as tread depth of the inside tread (5/32) and middle tread (8/32).

IMG_20210530_215709023_HDR.jpg
IMG_20210530_215745933.jpg
IMG_20210530_215956957_HDR.jpg
 
I’d go to an alignment/suspension shop from a local car club recommendation. Have them check all the suspension bushings and ball joints for premature wear, check the torque on all the suspension components (Tesla’s not so good at that), balance and rotate the tires, and get a high quality alignment.

I don’t trust Tesla to do these things right.
 
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I have the same issue with vibration I feel is on the rear wheel driver side. I feel slight vibration in my seat as well. I been trying to diagnose it 5 separate Tesla visit. Had wheel balanced twice, road force, rotation, swap wheel, check suspension twice…you name it and they were never able to diagnose or replicate the issue. Out of all my visits the first technician gave me the most plausible answer that it was due to the tires from heavy lead foot. The uneven wear in the continentals causes the vibration. As I got to 15k miles the tires feel softer almost a summer tire. I have all season tires. They even showed me the computer when they did a road force on my second visit with same technician that it was not a bent wheel and they were all balanced. In the end I suspect it is the tires and instead of buying 4 new tires to test I decided to sell my car 2019 model 3 awd for M3P next month. I heard tesla has better suspension in the newer models, they fixed the caliper issue in the early quarter and overall NVH is addressed. But yea I’m not a fan of the bouncy ‘bobble head’ harsh ride.
 
Take it to a reputable, independent alignment shop. Proper alignments and frequent rotations are critical for a good ride and acceptable tire life. They’re also an area where Tesla falls short. Even with a good alignment, expect to go through tires more frequently than with your previous vehicle.
 
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I’ve heard since the beginning (Sept 2018, for me) that these tires have short lives. I remember reading of some folks’ experiences of 12 and 15k tire changes(!) Has not been the case luckily, as the 20” tires on my Performance have 37,000 miles so far, with no indication of them needing replacement any time in the near future. These were the softest available tires when I bought, and I routinely drive aggressively. Yet I’d be shocked if I don’t end up getting 50k out of them from the looks of things.
 
Take it to a TiresPlus in your area. They work on Teslas and their prices seem decent. I had one install and balance my tires and they were excellent. Of course, they may not all be the same, but since they work on them, you shouldn't feel like they're anti-Tesla. You can get a quote on their website.
 
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Take it to a TiresPlus in your area. They work on Teslas and their prices seem decent. I had one install and balance my tires and they were excellent. Of course, they may not all be the same, but since they work on them, you shouldn't feel like they're anti-Tesla. You can get a quote on their website.

Closest TiresPlus is 5 hours away. The consensus so far seems to be to cancel the appointment and find somewhere local.

So far, that's not worked out very well. I'll call a bunch more places today and see of I can find someone before my appointment.
 
Closest TiresPlus is 5 hours away. The consensus so far seems to be to cancel the appointment and find somewhere local.

So far, that's not worked out very well. I'll call a bunch more places today and see of I can find someone before my appointment.
Before posting, I put in Buffalo, NY on their website and it came up with a few hits. On closer examination, they were in a PA, sorry.
 
I don't know why tire shops are refusing. Seems strange. I live 3hrs from a Service Center, and I took my 3 to a local tire shop, VIP, which is part of O'Reilly's. and they didn't have the alignment specs, but I got them here on TMC, gave them to the shop, they punched them in, and we aligned the tires. It's easier because there aren't that many adjustments they can make. I wanted to ask for a discount!

Your pic looks like the inside tread is feathered or scalloped. The toe-in is off. Mine was off, and yes, I bought new tires from TireRack to replace the OEMs, Vredestein Quatrac5. My inside tread was like yours, but feathered. I bought the tires for $600+. Mount and balance at my local tire shop was about $100. The alignment was $100. The tires run great. Alignment is fine.
 
It's easier because there aren't that many adjustments they can make. I wanted to ask for a discount!
That's why you don't want to go to a shop that is not that good, especially if you can't make up for their lack of knowledge.

There's just as many alignment adjustments on a Model 3 as any other car. Front toe/camber/caster and Rear toe/camber/caster. The adjustments are explained in the shop manual, but any shop that knows what they are doing are going to know because it's similar to other cars.
 
That's why you don't want to go to a shop that is not that good, especially if you can't make up for their lack of knowledge.

There's just as many alignment adjustments on a Model 3 as any other car. Front toe/camber/caster and Rear toe/camber/caster. The adjustments are explained in the shop manual, but any shop that knows what they are doing are going to know because it's similar to other cars.
I was under the impression that camber could not be adjusted on a Model 3.
 
I agree with the consensus about finding an independent shop. And I would never write off any of them as being "anti-Tesla;" they don't give a crap where their income comes from. A lot of people are legitimately intimidated at the thought of working on one, and they don't want to be blamed if things go wrong.

But at the end of the day, it's just another car. Other than the powertrain, there is nothing fundamentally different about how these things are put together. Sounds like you've got a tire wear issue caused by an alignment problem. I'd reach out to Tesla's main customer support via their website and ask about the warranty. I seem to remember hearing that alignment is warranted for 12K miles? I've never had that bad of an experience with a service center, sounds like someone at Tesla's headquarters should hear about it.
 
I was under the impression that camber could not be adjusted on a Model 3.

It is definitely adjustable in the front and rear.

The amount of adjustment is not enough to compensate for a significant drop in ride height, so that's why there are aftermarket camber adjustment arms. That causes confusion in the community of owners. However, alignment shops worth their salt should know how to make the adjustments just by looking at the suspension because the Tesla is not unique. If not that, they should know how to find documentation that shows them how.
 
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Howdy Y'all.

I got my M3 exactly 5 months ago, and for the first 3ish months it drove like a magical unicorn. Then it developed a bit of wheel vibration, so I made an appointment at the closest service center (12 days of waiting, 1.5 hour drive to the SC). I finally got to the appointment hopeful to have my unicorn driving smooth again, but their response was something like... "it's minor, we're not sure what's causing it, treads are even across, we'd *start* with balancing the tires for $175 but we're not sure it'll fix the problem".

That experience was pretty discouraging. On one hand, I realize that alignment and tires are maintenance and consumables, and perhaps most of the employees there drive ICE cars... so maybe I seemed like just a whiny customer complaining about a tiny vibration (sometimes it's fairly prominent, sometimes not so much). On the other hand, the car had less than 7k miles at that appointment.. they didn't rotate the tires (which the manual recommends doing at 6250 miles) or check the alignment, and $175 for tire balancing is *really* expensive. I declined any further service and took my vibrating expensive vehicle home.

My assumption from that experience is that Tesla's service centers (at least this one) have a lot of other Tesla-specific issues to deal with and price their wheel/tire services very high to discourage customers from bringing those issues there. Fair enough... I took the hint and started calling local tire and automotive shops. It's still a car, right? Anyone should be able to figure this out, I thought. Unfortunately, I was very wrong. I visited 6 different places, and called another 4. No one else will touch the car (at least not anyone in a position to actually resolve the issue, not even an alignment). The reasons ranged from liability, lack of alignment specs in their machine, inexperience with Tesla, and in some cases what seemed like anti-Tesla sentiment.

What I did learn from this journey... a friend told me that the tires have some feathering... "probably just rotating them criss-cross will resolve the issue". Bringing it to one place to have them rotated (anti-Tesla I think), the guy pointed out inside-tread wear on the front tires, said *only* Tesla can fix this and refused to touch it. Another young guy at a shop put it on their alignment machine just to check (didn't have the actual specs, used a 2017 Model S specs for reference, and couldn't make any adjustments)... he noted a difference in camber between the front tires. Since the camber can't be adjusted, he suggested it could be an issue with front passenger ball joint (that tire was furthest from the Model S spec).

Running out of options, I scheduled another service. This time for alignment and balancing. I mentioned inside tread wear in the front tires plus the vibration. The response I received in the app is the typical "Approve your estimate now for a faster service appointment". The estimate is for $1,100 and includes $570 for 2 new tires, $100 for putting them on, $300 for an alignment, and $50 for tire rotation. This situation now feels *very* wrong to me. The vehicle has just over 8,000 miles and needs new tires? Granted, they haven't seen these tires yet... perhaps the story will change at my appointment.

Service appointments are never fun. I'm outnumbered, and by people who have more experience than me. I'm posting here so that I can be as prepared as possible. Has anyone here had a similar experience that would be willing to lend some advice? I'm inclined to pay them only for rotation and alignment and keep the same tires... that'll still be almost $400 in overpriced services for a brand new car (sheesh). I certainly won't pay $1,000 every 5 months for two new tires, but that's what this estimate seems to advocate.

Thanks for taking the time to read and for any advice you're willing to throw my way.

With these cars, there is also the remote possibility that some of the foam has broken loose inside a tire. They would need to dismount the tires to check.

I would look into this as well. Especially if you started getting vibrations out of no where with nothing else happening that could explain it…..ie hit a big pothole and bent a rim. Does it happen at all speeds or just higher speeds? BTW if the foam inside is separated from the tire…wheel could still balance fine on a machine but you will still get vibrations at higher speeds.
I was having issues with vibrations. Thought it was because my rim was bent from hitting a pothole last Fall, but had it balanced and was better immediately after. But then a few days later it came back. Swapped out the suspect rim with my winter tire and vibrations were gone. Went back to the tire shop, they threw it on the balancer and it balanced fine. I asked them to remove the tire and not just blame the bend. When they dismounted the tire the foam was indeed separated. They removed the foam, remounted the tire and balanced. It’s been perfectly smooth since then.
 
Would the foam explain inside tread wire on both front tires though? Seems more like misalignment or some other suspension issue.

You posted pics of the tire gauge but not exactly where you took measurements. Pic of the tire isn’t the clearest either. How do the fronts look compared to the rear? what are the measurements of the rear tires? From the somewhat blurry pic it’s hard to tell if you have significant feathering, but nothing stands out IMO. I’ve never experienced vibrations from alignment issues. Not to say you may or may not have alignment issues….but I doubt that’s what’s causing the vibrations. If it’s just camber on your car that’s off, that wouldn’t explain vibrations. I’ve ran plenty of lowered cars with more negative camber for track/auto-x etc. Doesnt cause vibrations. Question is why is it starting now? if It’s from the Alignment, again which I doubt, why now? did hit something that threw off alignment? Did something come loose? How bad are the vibrations? What speed to the start to pop up? Where do you feel the vibrations? Steering wheel? Is Passenger seat shaking?
If suspension is fine and nothing is loose….my money is on the foam becoming separated.

edit: sorry never answered your question lol. Foam would likely not explain tire wear, which I’m not convinced you have.
 
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Would the foam explain inside tread wire on both front tires though? Seems more like misalignment or some other suspension issue.

No reason there couldn't be 2 problems: foam and alignment. Fixing one won't fix the other. Many Teslas come from the factory with bad alignments. Both of my Teslas came with too much toe that would have prematurely worn out my tires, but I was smart enough to check and fix the alignment proactively.